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cant seem to grasp why mame is 'illegal' for commercial use
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DJ_Izumi:

--- Quote from: ark_ader on February 02, 2010, 06:30:01 pm ---Hypothetically Ram Controls gets a call from a guy who says he has the rights to the Star Wars Yokes.  Threatens to sue if he releases the yokes unless a royalty is paid for each controller sold (like 90%) or just slaps him with a C & D.
--- End quote ---

I'd point out that any patent on the controller for Star Wars expired after twenty years and is well expired by now, then tell him I won't fall for his scheme.  Because you can't copyright design of something. |:
Malenko:
you guys are gettin a little off topic, besides some people say the yokes will never come out ;)


While it may seem "morally right" to use MAME in leiu of an actual PCB , you cant in a commercial setting. Its not because of the DCMA or any law or lack of permits you dont have to take the argument that far, you cant because when you run MAME you agree to their license, which is "you cant use this for commercial purposes"


I have real arcade machines, I have a MAME cab, I can admit I play games I shouldnt but I play the ones I own a lot more (Im tired of dumping hundred of dollars on broken KI 1 and 2 PCBs and fighting ebay sellers over them, so I settle for MAMEd KI1/KI2)
ark_ader:

--- Quote from: Malenko on February 02, 2010, 07:33:52 pm ---you guys are gettin a little off topic, besides some people say the yokes will never come out ;)


While it may seem "morally right" to use MAME in leiu of an actual PCB , you cant in a commercial setting. Its not because of the DCMA or any law or lack of permits you dont have to take the argument that far, you cant because when you run MAME you agree to their license, which is "you cant use this for commercial purposes"


I have real arcade machines, I have a MAME cab, I can admit I play games I shouldnt but I play the ones I own a lot more (Im tired of dumping hundred of dollars on broken KI 1 and 2 PCBs and fighting ebay sellers over them, so I settle for MAMEd KI1/KI2)

--- End quote ---

Yeah my bad, but it did merit a mention.

I like your point about being morally right about using MAME for a swap PCB.  But you have to look at it differently.  The PCB is protected (maybe not) with means to stop people creating copies.  Mame does not emulate the protection does it?  The protection would have to be broken or modified in order to get the game to run in MAME.  So morally doesn't come into this.  Mame just emulates the hardware or the software inside the hardware.  So if MAME is just for preserving hardware or the software inside the hardware, why has an industry spawned around it?

Why are the ROMS available?  Why are the roms being updated and not broken to prevent what the original mainboard of the PCB represented?

We know its popularity.  We all want to play the games.  That is a given.  Why not include the protection now?

Maybe a Mamedev can explain this.

Why emulate a mainboard for preservation purposes, when the process did not include the protection (if any) as was intended (or included)?

Is that why it cannot be used for commercial purposes?

http://mamelife.blogspot.com/2007/01/how-to-bruteforce-cps2.html
J.Max:

--- Quote from: ark_ader on February 02, 2010, 05:41:31 pm ---Well not really straight cut as you would think it would be.

This is my opinion on the subject,

In a real world scenario a guy running a pizza parlor wants to have a few arcade games like Donkey Kong or some other obsolete game that nobody has seen or possibly played before... :lol  ...just gets a broken cab and fires it up with MAME and some roms.  Happy days.
--- End quote ---

Which he shouldn't have done and is violating the MAME license.


--- Quote ---Unless the guy is a complete moron and puts MAME CAB on the machine, nobody would be the wiser and the guy would crank in some quarters.  If the dude puts it on free play more the better as there would be no licensing or maybe just a permit.  The mamedevs have no calling back code in MAME nor does it flash MAME IS NOT FOR COMMERCIAL USE every 5 minutes.
--- End quote ---

True.  Doesn't make what he did right or legal, just unenforceable.  

Say they guy gets caught with his pants down and the MAME machine is discovered.  What then?


--- Quote ---A warning? Jail time?   Nope.  How many local cops you know that would do anything?  

Besides its a civil issue.

Mamedev is a collective, each developer that submitted code (and there is quite a few) would have to testify.  Then comes the media circus when some company who owns the rights to Donkey Kong or whatever wakes up and sees serious money on the TV.  Guess who would be sued for breaking copy protection?  Nintendo is notorious for such behavior.  Who?  The guy in the pizza parlor?  Seriously, who?
--- End quote ---

The guy in the pizza parlor could be sued by both Nintendo (for using a ROM) and MAMEDev.  He probably wouldn't be sued by MAMEDev, but they have the legal right to do so.


--- Quote ---As mentioned by Saint - the Library of Congress would be the only group that would be in the position to include or protect MAME:

The Copyright Office is conducting this rule-making proceeding mandated by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which provides that the Librarian of Congress may exempt certain classes of works from the prohibition against circumvention of technological measures that control access to copyrighted works.

The purpose of this proceeding is to determine whether there are particular classes of works as to which users are, or are likely to be, adversely affected in their ability to make non-infringing uses due to the prohibition on circumvention of access controls.  

The Notice of Inquiry in this fourth anti-circumvention rule-making requests written comments from all interested parties, including representatives of copyright owners, educational institutions, libraries and archives, scholars, researchers and members of the public, in order to elicit evidence on whether non-infringing uses of certain classes of works are, or are likely to be, adversely affected by this prohibition on the circumvention of measures that control access to copyrighted works.  http://www.copyright.gov/1201/

Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 of the United States Constitution, also kicks in here.  A real mess if the media got wind of a real scoop and you would get some Michael Moore type reporter locating all these long-gone holders of old arcade technologies (remember this is prime suing time for those with losing holdings in the entertainment business, software houses including) asking for their views.  Basically a witch-hunt.

The rest of us who have Mame collections will keep quiet.  Maybe we will see a renaissance for all these games, with Mr. Foley riding shotgun.   :laugh2:
--- End quote ---

All of this is incorrect, except the witch-hunt part.  You're right that it could turn into a circus, but more likely, it becomes one of those "weird" stories.


--- Quote ---I personally love what the Mamedevs have done.  They are a part of our history, and the revenue generated with all these new ports of old games are a testament to this, something which is not lost on the copyright holders.

I'm not that happy with the cracking of games in the 2000-2009+ era, as the console software houses love kicking these ports out.  I have said in the past and I will say it now: Stop bringing out new stuff and fix the old code.

What I am getting at is the stone throwing mentality that some Mamedevs have, considering they are not officially in the Library of Congress (again correct me) negates this fact and have the right to break copy protections.  

I live in a dying holiday resort town.  I'm used to seeing arcades go bust and I also see some questionable arcade machines in my journeys.  Am I responsible to report it?  Is there a Mamedev reward hotline?

That's how I see the whole Mame vs the commercial use world.  Hypocrisy?

But we are talking about those offenders who operate Mame in a commercial setting as less than 1% - (please correct me) over the millions of Mame users out there all playing robby roto - its a logical conclusion.  

--- End quote ---

Is using MAME worse than using a bootleg board?  Not really.  Two wrongs don't make a right.


--- Quote ---Edit:
I read this again and how I see MAME operating this policy of archiving and saving history is to complete work on such game and break the code so roms could not be played.  The machine is archived but the operating code is not available to the general public only to the copyright holders or PD.

--- End quote ---

Right.  MAMEDev owns the code to the emulator...they have nothing to do with the ROMs.  The emulator is perfectly legal because it's not made to circumvent digital copy protection.
jcterzin:
the games are centipede and pacman, both original.
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