Purchasing Arcade monitors.

[Mike A]

I would pick these up right now if my basement shelving wasn't already full.



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[Infa Red]

Flat CRTs make classic games look like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

Dang really ? Why is that ? I admit I never seen them on one. Maybe thats why ! lol But just from logic alone, it seems like it would be better. I mean, the tube is curved the wrong way for crying out loud.

Ohh, wait, unless the circuitry of the games/roms to the monitor boards are taking all that into consideration and compensating. Therefore that compensation makes it look like crap on a flat screen CRT ? But wait, no that can't be cause it doesn't look off skew on LCD flat screens, LCD flat screen don't look as good cause its a entirely different technology. So yea, what makes it look so bad on a flat screen CRT ? Its the same tech, same everything, just a proper screen. Seems like it would be the best of both worlds.

For me, I am trying to collect tube with 0 and I mean literally 0 burn. They are out there, just hard to find. The 25" are more common to have no burn I've noticed. And the good thing about CRT/classic games is you can upsize the screen from a 19" to a 25" and there is no loss of quality unlike "pixel resolution based" tv size changes... so for me this is a win. I don't mind. That said, I just was given a 19" tube with 0 burn ! So thats cool. 19" is cool for vertical. Horizontal, I kinda like 25" if doing a Jamma switcher cab. But hell, no sin in doing 25" vertical too ! lol

Anyway, the moral to bore you with all that is.. my quest indeed is a bit harder. Hence my desire to make CRT's again. But before that happens, it might just be more likely they invent a new tech that finally does look and operate (optionally) as good as CRT but in some new thing. I mean OLED is old already and it undeniably looked way better than LCD. It just has a lag prob. The next gen stuff I heard is going to be bananas and they are getting lag time pretty minimal. So yea, you are right. Just collect what I can, and by the time I am out of CRT's, I bet looking forward instead of backward is the best bet then.

[Mike A]

Don't take this too harshly...you are new.

People looking for zero burn tubes are the problem.

Even moderate burn is many times not noticeable at all during gameplay.

Jerks are tossing tubes with moderate burn because they are not perfect.

Hopefully you have not tossed any tubes yet.

If you live anywhere near the Chicagoland area, come on out and I will show you what I mean.

I have an arcade room with a variety of CRTs in various states of burn.

[Mike A]

Oh. You are on KLOV too.

I see you live on the west coast.

Oh well. The offer still stands if you ever find yourself out here.

[Infa Red]

Don't take this too harshly...you are new.

People looking for zero burn tubes are the problem.

Even moderate burn is many times not noticeable at all during gameplay.

Jerks are tossing tubes with moderate burn because they are not perfect.

Hopefully you have not tossed any tubes yet.

If you live anywhere near the Chicagoland area, come on out and I will show you what I mean.

I have an arcade room with a variety of CRTs in various states of burn.

Haha, no I definitely never take anything wrong man. No worries, My skin is too thick for that. Also I understand how it is when you don't understand someone and you have your own ideals, you kinda can misjudge, then think you know something about that person, etc... So its all good, I didn't take it wrong. Let me explain myself, and maybe you can identify my type more accurately as I am sure you got some friends like me that you tease and make fun of.. haha I am used to it. No worries.

So for me its like this. NO I am not one of those guys that throws *anything* away, especially something vintage. I will give it away to someone who is less picky than I or I will sell it to someone less picky than I. People who don't like no burn are not the problem obviously, cause it gives people like you, the less picky, more tubes !! And I can be a hub for such things even ! (not tubes yet though as I haven't collected enough)

I'm one of those guys that people LOVE to buy stuff from, my friends (after they tease me for being so picky) line up to take over my old toss outs, cause they are always in excellent condition and I pass on my excellent condition item for a mint condition replacement once I find it. I am like that with everything and have been since I was kid, its not a problem, I just end up getting what I want, and having particularly nice things. I do the same with cars, collectables, music gear (my profession), and especially girls !! LOL. I have no remorse or feeling in things that are not exactly how I want them (why should I ?). There are way too many options, way too many fish out there to settle on anything less, and them lucky finds always come around, have faith. So I wait, I am patient, and its never failed me.

About tubes though in particular. Let me start here so you understand a touch more. So you are talking to a seriously shallow (lol) graphics hound. ALWAYS been that way. I am a gamer, not a builder, not a collector, not a restorer (though I will do all those things, yes, I am a serious gamer first). In gaming for me its all about visuals though. When I first was a kid and I seen perfect tubes while playing games, I didn't know at the time, but I loved that. Later, as a older kid/young man is when I first started seeing burn in for the first time (about 12-14 years old), and I despised it. Yes even back then ! I wouldn't play the game and I'd move on. Why ? - Think about it - It ruined the immersive feeling for me. Its how I am, what I am. It effects my *ENJOYMENT*. Not gameplay, no, but visuals is the way I trick myself into thinking this is not a game, rather life and I am that character in there. *ANY visual artifact totally shatters that immersiveness for me*. If you were a hardcore gamer first and also a graphics hound, you would understand. But you might be a builder/collector/restoration guy first, gamer second. Which then would make sense. Or maybe you are just not the "immersive" type of gamer.

I will admit this though, burn in on a screen that is the same burn from the game you are playing is not as bad as when you see burn in from a game that is different than the one its currently displaying (know what I mean). Just my opinion. Also, that being said, as long as I can not detect visually any burn, then I am cool with it. But if I see it while playing, thats when I kinda lose the good vibe I was on. So really, all I ask is that I can not see it. Some can be there, sure. But again, why settle ? Makes no sense to me.

BTW, yes I am totally new to this - I have a total of 2 tubes so far. They were given to me. I have yet to buy anything as I still haven't found that "right" sale on anything I've found. Out of these tubes 1 is a complete monitor, (will be testing it soon as I get my HV Probe) it has burn, but sine it is my first ever monitor, I will be keeping it a "learn" things on as I collect the tools needed and experiment, watch Randy Fromm videos, etc..  The other one is just a tube, I got the other day. It has no burn. I am looking to decode what monitor chassis/boards/etc.. I need to get it up and running and will try that too. These honestly are just Toal experiments introducing me into the world.

I want to reiterate, I just like to get things so it at *least* plays a illusion on me that's its perfect and brand new. It doesn't have to be really. As long as its outta sight, outta mind. Thats ok. Other than that, yes I am picky, I like things the way I like them or I'd rather just do without until "that" one comes along. Its my nature. I understand there are many like you, that don't mind settling. And I respect that, and thats cool. But understand, not every is like that or needs to be like that nor is it a problem if they are. Thats kinda odd to say.

*Side Note, deeper concept*
The only "problem" is ridiculous laws and the masses gravitation towards convenience over quality (MP3's).. As them 2 things put together is what is causing all the greatest well built things that last a lifetime to no longer be made. BTW - You find that more than a coincidence ? The government just magically finds out that all well built long lasting things are made with materials that are harmful to us or the globe.. MEANWHILE conveniently the modern replacement made with all safe things (supposedly) just happens to magically not last, so you have to buy a new one every 5 years.. ? No one finds this as smelling horribly wrong ?

[bobbyb13]

Flat CRTs make classic games look like ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

There are more than enough CRTs to feed this hobby until the people who really care are all dead.

There is no need for new CRTs.

I routinely buy working 19 inch arcade monitors for 100 to 150 bucks. 25 inch CRTS for 125-250 dollars.

If you can't find them where you live then drive out to Chicago with a van and fill it up with arcade monitors.

One trip and you never have to worry about CRTs again.

If you don't live in the continental US this could be a very different conversation.

Bobbyb13, you need to rent a canoe or something. Sorry buddy.

Oh... tube envy-

Sadly (and comically) you are once again correct Mike A.

People out here had too much $$ during the CRT era apparently (and there are a lot of traditionalist people of Japanese descent here in the islands also) so most of the tubes I get ahold of are actually very nice Trinitrons.
Most totally usseless if not for Zebidee's work and some with only s-video, composite, or rf input anyway.
I need to learn how to rgb mod-

And the tubes that aren't Sonys are often Dynaflats.
Far better than LCDs obviously, but geometry is abit weird for some games of course.

Ahhhh.... the irony-

[Infa Red]

Hey you know what's interesting (to me, cause I am new here) but when I "quoted" Mike A, the quote wrote the word sh&t out like its spelled while I was creating the post. Which I thought weird, cause I swore he wrote the --steaming pile of meadow muffin-- joke/analogy. Low and behold, when I clicked "Post" - it zapped back to the meadow muffin thing.

Pretty cool, I figure its a auto thing ? When you swear it replaces your curse word(s) with some funny related banter ?

Oh and @Mike A, sorry I missed that part, yes I am on the Arcade Museum place too.

[PL1]

When you swear it replaces your curse word(s) with some funny related banter ?

Yeah, that's Saint's sense of humor for you.
  Try posting the next entry in this sequence:  B2, B3, __. 

If you want to turn off the filter, click on the "profile" icon at the top of the page.
  Modify Profile -- Look and Layout menu.
  Select "Leave words uncensored", the 6th item down, then Click on "Change Profile". (lower right)


Scott

[Infa Red]

Yeah, that's Saint's sense of humor for you.
  Try posting the next entry in this sequence:  B2, B3, __. 

If you want to turn off the filter, click on the "profile" icon at the top of the page.
  Modify Profile -- Look and Layout menu.
  Select "Leave words uncensored", the 6th item down, then Click on "Change Profile". (lower right)

Scott

Who is Saint ?

You know I have from day 1 had that option checked, and just now double checked and yes I have that option enabled to leave words uncensored. Yet, it is still censoring them I guess ? Weird.

[PL1]

Who is Saint ?

Saint a.k.a. John St.Clair is our gracious host who has been running this site since late 1997 and is the author of "Project Arcade".



He also does a great Pac-Man cosplay -- related thread here.

You know I have from day 1 had that option checked, and just now double checked and yes I have that option enabled to leave words uncensored. Yet, it is still censoring them I guess ? Weird.

The filter is a one-way street.
- If you're reading an unfiltered post and your filter is off, it should show up unfiltered.
- If an unfiltered post is quoted by someone with the filter on, it will show up filtered regardless of your filter setting.


Scott

[Infa Red]

Saint a.k.a. John St.Clair is our gracious host who has been running this site since late 1997 and is the author of "Project Arcade".

Ahhh, got'chu. Ok thanks for the info. And he IS a Saint, cause he got this great wealth of informational site to help us all and its still up and running. My first computer was in 1998. I swore I was the first person with internet. It was definitely not popular back then. I had no clue there was internet a year earlier. I mean, I knew about military style internet and for us is was so rudimentary that you couldn't;t really call it the internet yet. So if he really started this site in 1997, then the cost must have been massive ! Cause all that stuff came down in expenses and is much easier now. WOW I am impressed. 1997.

The filter is a one-way street.
- If you're reading an unfiltered post and your filter is off, it should show up unfiltered.
- If an unfiltered post is quoted by someone with the filter on, it will show up filtered regardless of your filter setting.

Ok, so that must be what's going on with my censorship thing. Its piggybacking off someone else. lol I like no censorship. Its just more real to me. Even if someone says something I do not like or to put me down, I feel thats their right to say that. Doesn't bother me none. I actually like it.

Anyway thanks for clearing that up. And again also - THANKS to Saint for hosting this place for so long to help folks out.

Well we side tracked this thread enough - haha Back to monitors ! And hail CRT's over LCD's !

[brandon]

I'm one of those people that wish they'd start producing CRTs again due to the surging popularity of retro games.. but I know it's not going to happen.  However, one thing that COULD happen is reproduction of the CHASSIS or even a completely new design based on modern tech.  That sort of thing is already happening with vector monitors.  I've seen complete reproductions of old Amplifone chassis, Wells Gardner 6100s and even new designs based on the old ones.   I wish somebody would make a nice universal chassis that could turn all these old TVs into RGB monitors.  Someone smarter than me could make a chassis that could work regardless of yoke impedance with a few different neck boards for different sockets.  It could have a built in component video transcoder, SCART connector, molex for arcade RGB.. etc.   Think about all the undesirable RF only Televisions that have nice tubes.  If there was a small chassis that could fit inside the case and add an RGB input.. That would be AWESOME

[Zebidee]

I'm one of those people that wish they'd start producing CRTs again due to the surging popularity of retro games.. but I know it's not going to happen.  However, one thing that COULD happen is reproduction of the CHASSIS or even a completely new design based on modern tech.  That sort of thing is already happening with vector monitors.  I've seen complete reproductions of old Amplifone chassis, Wells Gardner 6100s and even new designs based on the old ones.   I wish somebody would make a nice universal chassis that could turn all these old TVs into RGB monitors.  Someone smarter than me could make a chassis that could work regardless of yoke impedance with a few different neck boards for different sockets.  It could have a built in component video transcoder, SCART connector, molex for arcade RGB.. etc.   Think about all the undesirable RF only Televisions that have nice tubes.  If there was a small chassis that could fit inside the case and add an RGB input.. That would be AWESOME

You can already buy new, cheap Chinese clones of Wei-ya and other classic monitor chassis brands for around $20. Quality is variable and good luck matching to the tubes you have.

Neckboards are relatively easy as often all you need to do is to replace the socket to match. Adjusting to accommodate different yoke impedances is trickier. Usually easier to swap the original yoke from a suitable-but-dead tube onto a replacement.

Given how easy it still is to access the stocks already sitting in peoples sheds and on roadsides, making new CRTs at this point would be folly for any business that actually wants to make a profit. The industry is dust and tumbleweeds now. It is true that some quality old CRT TVs and monitors can get good prices these days, but you still couldn't be price competitive with a re-started new product. By the time that dynamic changes (if it ever does), restarting manufacturing will likely be even harder. We might love our retrogaming, but who would pay $1000 for a new generic 19" CRT arcade monitor? $500 maybe, but even then it would be a hard sell.

Then there is the shipping, which costs a ton for CRTs. This effectively breaks the global market up into a bunch of smaller markets, kinda kills the already fragile economics of a single factory supplying the world's CRT lovers.

But I agree, it would be great to better understand how to tweak standardised new chassis to work with a range of different tubes. I know some chassis like the Smart Image generic ones can be modded to suit a range of tube variants, but you need specialist technical knowledge (of which I know but a fraction).

[dankykang]

I'm one of those people that wish they'd start producing CRTs again due to the surging popularity of retro games.. but I know it's not going to happen.  However, one thing that COULD happen is reproduction of the CHASSIS or even a completely new design based on modern tech.  That sort of thing is already happening with vector monitors.  I've seen complete reproductions of old Amplifone chassis, Wells Gardner 6100s and even new designs based on the old ones.   I wish somebody would make a nice universal chassis that could turn all these old TVs into RGB monitors.  Someone smarter than me could make a chassis that could work regardless of yoke impedance with a few different neck boards for different sockets.  It could have a built in component video transcoder, SCART connector, molex for arcade RGB.. etc.   Think about all the undesirable RF only Televisions that have nice tubes.  If there was a small chassis that could fit inside the case and add an RGB input.. That would be AWESOME

You can turn most old TVs to RGB monitors by hacking the "jungle chip". See tutorial below:

https://youtu.be/DLz6pgvsZ_I?t=174

[Tommy714]

Ok, a couple of questions. 

1.  what is the largest 4:3 LCD arcade monitor available for a reasonable number?

b.  I've got a 27" 800x600 arcade CRT in excellent condition with no burn in whatsoever.  What's it worth?

3.  Is it really cheaper to do 16:9 and have to deal with the bezels instead of buying a 4:3 monitor?

Please keep the flames to a minimum, I don't get out much...

[Zebidee]

Do you realise that you listed your questions as 1, b, 3?

Better questions might be: what are you trying/thinking to do, and why?

If you're thinking to replace an arcade monitor in "excellent condition" with an LCD, is probably not a good idea.