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A Closer Look At The AimTrak (with video goodness)

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Ginsu Victim:


--- Quote from: Loafmeister on October 13, 2009, 05:16:44 pm ---Ginsu: Will do. All I can say is it was trial and error for the LCD Top Guns but it definitely helped to find the sweet spot (distance was also part of the sweet spot - unfortunately for the LCD Topgun's, I just find I have to be a little too far). If I get it to work, I'll post a vid!

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Luckily distance isn't a problem. My gun is about 2 1/2 ft away and I sit on a stool. With a 19" monitor, I can't get too far away anyway.

TheShanMan:


--- Quote from: Neverending Project on October 13, 2009, 05:40:13 pm ---I was just thinking about the typical use that these guns will get on my machine, and it will most likely require recalibration - not necessarily between every game, but in between game sessions. If I am playing, I will stand in the middle of the screen. If I am playing two-player, I will definitely be off to one side by a couple of feet. I also imagine if my kids play, they will not be standing on a ladder.

So this brings me to my point. If calibration is mostly dependent on the current position of the gun relative to the sensor, maybe we can request that the AimTrak is able to store several calibration setups. Maybe they can be called with a special button press. Then once we hit the sweet spot for calibration, it is saved in spot 1. We hit the sweet spot for the left side and it can be stored in sport 2, etc. Then when you switch positions you just call up the saved calibration, rather than recalibrate.

I'm not sure it is really saving that much work, but just thinking out loud.

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I share your concern about 1 vs. 2 players and kid vs. adult. Seems like a pretty good idea for a solution if there is an inherent inaccuracy that comes from holding the gun in different locations, which can't be overcome with firmware updates or whatever.

RandyT:


--- Quote from: Loafmeister on October 13, 2009, 04:58:54 pm ---However, I do take objection with using real world examples to validate whether this is a good product.  

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Unfortunately, (fortunately?) this type of control is different than a joystick, or a spinner, or a pushbutton.  This one actually has a real-world analog.  So while you may not think it's appropriate to compare the two, it is, to the same extent that a comparison between a real car steering wheel and one used in a video game is appropriate.  The steering wheel example is a good one, because even though many wheels only roughly approximate a real car steering wheel in that they provide the user with the ability to steer a simulated device to the extent allowed by the game, no-one really expects to be thrown to one side of the room, or smell burning rubber when it's turned too hard :).  Likewise, a gun control should allow one to accurately "shoot" something within the software's ability to sense that something is being "hit" by that shot.  If the software is limited by the control, then the control falls short of what the software expects, and user skill has little to do with it, unless the control also unnaturally limits the users interaction with that control.


--- Quote ---If one hasn't even tried it yet, that shouldn't be the stand taken, IMHO anyway.

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Are you new around here?  Look at any of the new products I announce and find me one where this hasn't happened en masse. :)  It can't be ok because it only happens to me (can it?)


--- Quote ---Randy, I don't doubt the quality of your products, but hammering at engineering points, considering you haven't even tried it yet may reflect poorly on yourself. Again, not saying to shut up but withholding the judgmental tone until you'd tried it yourself might be a good idea.

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The videos are pretty clear, and to be honest, unless you understand the well-known and widely used principle of these systems, I'm not sure why you are finding fit to pass judgment on my comments.  Andy stated that the current calibration method did not account for overscan, and I offered a very simple and effective way to help calibrate for it.  If he has a different idea, then that's fine too.  It was an honest attempt to help make the one I end up with better as well.  My statements about lens distortion come from over 7 years of optical fabrication experience, and experience with the injection molded lenses used with these little mass-produced camera modules.  But if that's not the cause, then that's great too, as it means it's probably an easier situation to correct.  But I threw it out there in case it wasn't considered.


--- Quote ---It's all down to expectations of course.  All I want is to have the gun be as accurate as possible but I understand it may not be perfect. When I used to use my Amiga Lightgun (still have it :) ), it was weak on corners a bit but I adjusted.  When I had a super scope for my SNES, it wasn't always bang on, but I adjusted.

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If that's as high as your expectations are, then you have nothing to worry about.  They were poor compared to any of the newer stuff, and in that light, the games helped to cover that by being less demanding accuracy-wise than more recent titles.


--- Quote ---Relevant to this thread, with my LCD Topgun's, I had to learn that for the guns to be accurate, I had to calibrate them differently from the top of the screen compared to the bottom (top left corner, aim at the corner, top right corner, aim about half an inch to the right.

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While this was indeed a pain, it was the distance that made the LCDTopGuns a non-starter for me.  The gun tip needed to be back 10' from a 36" monitor to be just within operating parameters.  And even with all that, the accuracy wasn't incredible, just passable.  It's also a bit finicky about how one moves the gun.  I was able to get through HODIII with it, but it seemed like a chore.  Not at all an "arcade experience".  My expectations are admittedly higher for this one, due in no small part to the claims made by the manufacturer.

RandyT

aljupy:

Hello:
I´m a big fan of lightguns. And.... like RandyT  I have lots of Guncon1, guncon2, Zappers, Dreamcast, Xbox lightguns..etc..etc...


--- Quote from: RandyT on October 13, 2009, 09:50:04 pm ---While this was indeed a pain, it was the distance that made the LCDTopGuns a non-starter for me.  The gun tip needed to be back 10' from a 36" monitor to be just within operating parameters.

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That is solved with a Wide angle lens










--- Quote --- And even with all that, the accuracy wasn't incredible, just passable.  It's also a bit finicky about how one moves the gun.  I was able to get through HODIII with it, but it seemed like a chore.  Not at all an "arcade experience".  My expectations are admittedly higher for this one, due in no small part to the claims made by the manufacturer.
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I agree that. Guncon2 is Excellent for CRT. But Topgun beats it, and it is for All screens. I´m very sorry for people that got a defective model.

See my vids







RayB:

Useless bickering for a "1.0" product. Even Microsoft never gets it right on the first iteration. Cut Ultimarc some slack and wait for the 1.1 fix. (I'm pretty confident a solution exists like what I suggested above, but my post probably flew over the heads of most).


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