Main > Main Forum
Black Tiger dedicated??
u_rebelscum:
"Black Tiger revision"? Doesn't that hint this manual isn't for the first (maybe dedicated) release?
The thing about using the manuals is that of the many games that came out in both conversion and dedicated have both versions of manuals. So just because you found the conversion/kit manual doesn't always mean it only came as a conversion.
For example, Gauntlet: Dark Legacy came out in two sizes of dedicated cads and two conversion kits, and thus has four different manuals: 27" dedicated, 39" (showcase) dedicated, universal conversion kit, and upgrade from Legends kit. Add that I've only seen manuals for the 27" Legends cab, but the DL upgrade manual says there were 39" Legends cabs to convert from.
I'm not saying klov is the truth to always follow ;), but finding a conversion manual does not say there wasn't a dedicated.
Kevin Mullins:
--- Quote from: u_rebelscum on September 15, 2009, 01:50:01 pm ---"Black Tiger revision"? Doesn't that hint this manual isn't for the first (maybe dedicated) release?
--- End quote ---
Could just be a "revised" manual ....... for the kit.
'Revision" is also a term used to mean "modification". (i.e. kit)
--- Quote from: u_rebelscum on September 15, 2009, 01:50:01 pm ---The thing about using the manuals is that of the many games that came out in both conversion and dedicated have both versions of manuals. So just because you found the conversion/kit manual doesn't always mean it only came as a conversion.
--- End quote ---
I agree one source of information is never all inclusive.
But if you were to gather information from several sources and put them all together, kinda like a puzzle..... then what do you have?
So say I check 5-6 sources for manuals and all I find are KIT manuals and then I check all the flyers I can find and none show a cabinet of any kind and then I search the internet for any and all images of cabinets and can clearly tell they are conversions ..... then what would my conclusion be?
Kevin Mullins:
Oh..... and in this particular case ROMSTAR is notorious for kits as they simply licensed from other companies.
So the question should really be if CAPCOM ever put out a dedicated cabinet. (?)
(oh wait.... find me anything Capcom in a dedicated cabinet)
u_rebelscum:
Note, I always was told (mame.net & mameworld.org/info forums) that Black Tiger was conversion only. I think it's conversion only. Sorry if I sounded like I think there was a dedicated cab.
It's more the principal of using the internet as a source of "the truth" I'm questioning.
--- Quote from: Kevin Mullins on September 15, 2009, 02:05:05 pm ---...I agree one source of information is never all inclusive.
But if you were to gather information from several sources and put them all together.
--- End quote ---
Agree, multiple independent sources are much better than a single source, but...
--- Quote ---...So say I check 5-6 sources for manuals and all I find are KIT manuals...
--- End quote ---
When 4-5 sites copy all the other sites info, so they have (and don't have) the same stuff?
The two sites I saw on Black Tiger look like copies of the same scan, and I doubt there are more than two different scans (if that) among the 5-6 sites. The two sites I searched didn't have a Black Dragon manual, didn't have Electrocoin (UK) Black Tiger, didn't have a EU campcom Black Tiger manual. Where's the Gauntlet Legends Kit (conversion) manual?
--- Quote ---... and then I check all the flyers I can find and none show a cabinet of any kind and then I search the internet for any and all images of cabinets and can clearly tell they are conversions ..... then what would my conclusion be?
--- End quote ---
Now these are much better independent points of info. Manuals + flyers + all pictures of cabs look like conversions = three sources. I'm not including the stuff I heard in the forums over the years as another source because AFAIK, their conclusions are from the same above three "sources".
The flyers are a great second source, as I used in my examples above. OTOH, they also can be used to shown they aren't perfect either. If I looked for a german manual, flyer, or romset of Dig Dug a year ago, I wouldn't find any on the internet; but in 2009-06-16 a german flyer was posted at arcadeflyers.com. Does this mean the german version didn't exist until this year, and now does? ;)
So, while I agree black tiger was probably released only as a kit in the US, especially backed with the evidence you mensioned, I'm less sure about capcom not releasing Black Dragon pre-installed in a factory produced cab. (Yeah, capcom didn't game dedicated much besides street fighter, but they did release games inside cabs, not just conversion/upgrade kits)
IG-88:
I have to agree that it looks like it was only a kit, I love the game and been playing it for years, and have only seen it in hacked up conversions.
I also agree that KLOV isn't always accurate. Here is what got me to thinking about it:
VAPS Arcade Census
GAMES OWNED, WANTED, or FOR SALE BY MEMBERS OF THE VIDEO ARCADE PRESERVATION SOCIETY
Very Common - There are 79 known instances of Black Tiger owned by one of our 900 members. Of these, 7 of them are original dedicated machines, 11 of them are conversions in which game circuit boards (and possibly cabinet graphics) have been placed in (and on) another game cabinet, and 61 of them are only circuit boards which a collector could put into a generic case if desired.
What got me looking in the first place was that I think I am at a place in my life where I can finally start collecting the actual machines of my youth and not have to play emulated. While this is not a "grail" by any means it would surely be nice to have in the collection. Maybe if we decide that there isn't a dedicated cab, I should just design my own ;D