New Video Review: SlikStik Stainless Steel Joystick Handles

[KevSteele]

I've just finished uploading a new video review to Retroblast.com: It's a review of the new SlikStik Stainless Steel Joystick Handles:

http://www.retroblast.com/video.html

I should have another video review (this time of the Wells-Gardner D9200 arcade monitor) ready by this time next week, if the UPS gods smile on me.

Anyway, check it out and let me know what you think!

Kevin

[anthony691]

I've just finished uploading a new video review to Retroblast.com: It's a review of the new SlikStik Stainless Steel Joystick Handles:

http://www.retroblast.com/video.html

I should have another video review (this time of the Wells-Gardner D9200 arcade monitor) ready by this time next week, if the UPS gods smile on me.

Anyway, check it out and let me know what you think!

Kevin

Wow, Thanks dude!

[meta87]

Both those movies are great!

Keep up the good work, love the website.

[OSCAR]

Excellent video, Kev!  I was afraid you might pull a Gallagher at the end and start smashing fruit!  

[KevSteele]

Heh, no watermelons were harmed in the production of this video, although a Kiwi was narrowly saved from destruction!  

Thanks for the kind words.

Kevin

[AlanS17]

LOL that has got to be the most intersting demo I've ever seen!

Porn music and a TLC voice-over provide for an interesting combination.

It does show me stuff I'd be interested to see, though.

[SirPoonga]

So, what would be the advantages of having less wobble and a slower return time?  Can people start making those comparisons?

[AlanS17]

I would imagine a top-heavy joystick like that would make "rolling" moves (like those in Street Fighter) easier to do.

[SirPoonga]

I'd think top heavy would suck faster back and forth fighter movements though.  It seems to move slower, which should be true if Newton's laws are correct

[Frostillicus]

That is an excellent video Kev - some nice humor    

I would think that faster responding, light joysticks would do better in games like donpachi.   It might not matter much with us adults (obviously the slikstik demographic) but what about if kids play?  They aren't quite as strong and have tiny hands.

[SirPoonga]

slikstik should anodize those.

[AlanS17]

I don't think you can anodize anything other than aluminum. I've never heard of anodized steel.

[OSCAR]

I don't think you can anodize anything other than aluminum. I've never heard of anodized steel.

Correct.  Anodizing is exclusive to aluminum alloys only.  It is the chemical process of growing a layer of aluminum oxide on the surface of the aluminum alloy.  Steel and other ferrous alloys are electroplated, not anodized.

[rockhopper]

Stainless steel can also be electropolished, which is similar to anodizing (but different than electroplating) but this will result in an extremely smooth and shiny surface, and not change the colour which is what SirPoonga was probably getting at (?)

Maybe they could be machined from aluminium instead, which will not only give a lighter feel, but will then allow for anodizing as well.

[SirPoonga]

I was getting at getting sifferent colored ones.

[OSCAR]

Stainless steel can also be electropolished, which is similar to anodizing (but different than electroplating) but this will result in an extremely smooth and shiny surface, and not change the colour which is what SirPoonga was probably getting at (?)

Maybe they could be machined from aluminium instead, which will not only give a lighter feel, but will then allow for anodizing as well.

Yes, that is true, SS can be electropolished...  But since it doesn't allow for different colors imbedded into the material (like SirP was inferring to), I didn't mention that finishing option.  There are also other finish options available for SS parts, like epoxy coating for example, that can offer different colors as well.

[g-rock26]

We have made some anodized aluminum joys for a black machine with gold t-molding.  They should be in next week and I will let you know how they work.  They will be much lighter than the Stainless of course but we wanted gold joys for our "Conquistador machine"

later
-G

[KevSteele]

I'm going to be finishing the full written review of the joystick handles today. Check my site for updates.

I did a lot of "play testing," with games such as Robotron (of course!   ), DoDonPachi.

The heavy joystick handles definitely felt different - "sloppy" or "loose," would be two words I'd use, but I was amazed to discover that firing diagonals in Robotron was a lot easier, and overall my accuracy seemed greatly improved.

This was with Competition joysticks, and I've heard the Perfect360's have much stronger springs, which would probably get rid of the "loose" feeling.

Kevin

[KevSteele]

Okay, the written review of the SlikStik Joystick Handles is now up on Retroblast:

http://retroblast.com/slik_handles.html

I hope it helps "fill in the gaps" not covered by the video review.

Kevin

[Frostillicus]

Some thoughts I had from the chatroom last night...maybe others who weren't there might be interested.

-Since these new handles are around 11oz heavier than standard handles, how does that impact the cherry switches?  I would think they would wear out faster.

-From the video of the new stick returning to center, it shows it is slower.   Initially I thought a steel ball top would be cool, but wouldn't that just be some annoying pendulum action? (since it would be so top heavy)

just some thoughts.  They sure look cool - I'll give them that!

[Lilwolf]

One thing I would like to hear.  How do they do on tricky 4way games that don't like diagonals (donkey kong, frongger, ect).

It seems like if diagonals are easier to hit now... It might these games REALLY hard to play..

Of course... I have a dedicated... But others might want to know if they have one control panel without a dedicated 4way.

[jakejake28]

how do they do on fighters, where you need fast movements and quick directional changes?

[KevSteele]

Frostillicus:

I think a ball-top handle would have less metal on top than the current design, so it should be less top-heavy.

Lilwolf:

I didn't do a lot of 4-way testing, but I suspect that 4-way only games would be a bit harder (I have a dedicated 4-way as well). It probably depends on how accurate you are when you move the joystick -- moving these handles takes less effort than standard handles, but where you move it is still up to your own muscles.  

Jakejake28:

The handles are great for fighters -- the shape of the top really helped me "grip" the joystick by wrapping my entire hand around it. Normally, with the Wico bat-style handles, I use a "three-fingered" (index, fore, and thumb) grip.

The one thing I think would improve these handles is stronger springs in the joystick, and supposedly the Perfect360 has stronger springs than the Competition joystick that I tested on.

Christian at SlikStik also mentioned to me that he was considering selling stronger springs as an optional "add-on" for the handles.

Kevin

[IIOIOOIOO]

Thanks for the video review. Those sticks look really nice, until they're used. Then, they look super sloppy. You might have better results though, if you swapped in MUCH stronger springs, since the springs your stick came with were intended to be used with a MUCH lighter stick.

[AlanS17]

Think about it. How many games require you to pull the stick back and let it go and wobble and return to center? I don't know of any. If you don't let go it won't (well shouldn't) wobble all over the place. Since there is no release, you should be measuring by the feel of the PULL, not the release.

Seems to me that pulling it would be easier. Regardless of the fact that the head is heavier, that just makes it more top-heavy since the pivot point is probably 3 inches lower. The result *should* be a handle that's more responsive.

I think the proper way to test this stick (not telling anybody how to do their job here) would be to see how it moves in the hand - not how it wobbles all over the place. That's merely secondary in my opinion. It's an effect of the stick, but I don't see how it's a guage of performance. Maybe only on some minor level for people that can't seem t control their own movements. Of course... This is all coming from someone who has never used one of those SS sticks...

[KevSteele]

AlanS17 --

It turns out that it's hard to demonstrate how the handle moves in the hand -- if I'm gripping it, you can't see it!

You're right, no one, when playing a game, will pull back and just release the joystick (unless you're playing Uo Poko!   )

Flipping it and showing it wobble just seemed the best "visual" way to demonstrate how easily the joystick moves with the extra weight at the top. If I'm moving the joystick with my hand, you can't gauge how easy/hard it is on a video.

The handle is more responsive, since it's easier to move it in any one direction. Back-and-forth motions may be a bit slower, since you have more mass to work with, but to be honest you don't really feel that much of the mass when you're playing.

Kevin

[AlanS17]

I see your point about the gripping/seeing issue. Guess it's just one of those metrics that's ard to capture...

[said7]

I imagine it would also have a lot to do with how you grip a joystick.

Some players grip harder or use more fingers so i imagine they would provide a more sturdy solid feel.

For players who lightly use their finger tips it may feel too heavy and wobbly.

I think they look fantastic and would like to have some, just would like to try em before i buy em.

[IIOIOOIOO]

No, you DON'T often flip the stick and let it wobble back to center. But you'd be amazed (if you pay attention while playing most games) how important it is for the stick to quickly and accurately return to center when you remove your directional force. The slow speed of the springs returning the stick to center will definitely impact performance in a negative manner in any return-to-center game. Also, that wobble will (depending on the throw distance for your mincroswitches) potentially fire an opposite direction signal instead of snapping cleanly to center. I realise that this won't affect a hamfist game like robotron, where you almost never return to center. However, imagine trying to throw a harpoon in MK (which REQUIRES a fast snap to center) or navigating a dense bullet spread in DoDonPachi or GigaWing (which often requires stopping still in exactly the spot you want.) It would be horrible.

This is especially funny in light of SlikStik's claims on this board of %150 gaming performance increase, or whatever the exact wording was of the hogwash they pushed in the announcement here.

Also, beware of starting to sound like a vendor front-man in your reviews. It's glaringly obvious that you have a direct line from SlikStik to your basement, and that you are wary of jeapordizing that relationship. However, if it becomes too blatant, people will just stop caring about your "reviews" and your line will be in just as much jeapordy. If something is a worse idea in execution than it was in concept, don't be afraid to say so... It might be valuable feedback for the people reading your site AS WELL as for the vendor. I.E. If you discussed the problems with dropping an overheavy stick into a chassis that wasn't designed for it, then SlickStick would be motivated to either redesign their stick with a lighter alloy or to ship the handles with spring replacement sets which (this needs testing) could potentially solve the problem. Otherwise, you're doing both parties a disservice.

But don't get me wrong, I fully appreciate the intentions of your website, from both the self-serving and public-serving positions... In fact I'm sure I envy you

[Hoagie_one]

I don't think you can anodize anything other than aluminum. I've never heard of anodized steel.

You can heat\electrically annodize titanium and niobium.  And there are other coloring techniques for other metals.  Most are kind of expensive though.  But if you want stainless blackened, I know a guy that does this, but its for medievil armor.

He normally sells rings and wire but he does do some coloring projects.  Time is usually a factor.
www.theringlord.com

[KevSteele]

However, imagine trying to throw a harpoon in MK (which REQUIRES a fast snap to center) or navigating a dense bullet spread in DoDonPachi or GigaWing (which often requires stopping still in exactly the spot you want.) It would be horrible.

Actually, I did play a lot of  DoDonPachi (read the review) -- I had no problem with the joysticks in that game, even with massive spreads of incoming fire. I tried a lot of different games, trying to find one that it wouldn't be good at. I didn't try playing any 4-way games, but that was from an oversight on my part since I always use my 4-way joystick for those games.

Also, beware of starting to sound like a vendor front-man in your reviews. It's glaringly obvious that you have a direct line from SlikStik to your basement, and that you are wary of jeapordizing that relationship. However, if it becomes too blatant, people will just stop caring about your "reviews" and your line will be in just as much jeapordy.

A direct line? Like talking to Christian? Yes, I do that. I also am in regular email correspondence with Kelsey of Oscar Controls. Does that make me a shill for him too? I also talk to Keith at Xgaming, and Andy at Ultimarc.

I'm not wary of anything -- I pointed out the flaw in the product (the "sloppy" feeling), and noted how important I felt it was (not very). I didn't have any negative gameplay problems from the loose feeling -- I didn't like it, but it didn't hurt anything.

I'm fairly sure my reviews speak for themselves in terms of my integrity here. Just because you seem to feel these joysticks are a disaster doesn't mean I'm a shill if I happen to think they're only a stronger set of springs away from being ideal.

I think it's becoming "glaringly obvious" to me that you don't like SlikStik or Christian Stango in particular. Fine, you're allowed not to like him, but don't let your feeling for him bleed over into my reviews.

If something is a worse idea in execution than it was in concept, don't be afraid to say so... It might be valuable feedback for the people reading your site AS WELL as for the vendor. I.E. If you discussed the problems with dropping an overheavy stick into a chassis that wasn't designed for it, then SlickStick would be motivated to either redesign their stick with a lighter alloy or to ship the handles with spring replacement sets which (this needs testing) could potentially solve the problem. Otherwise, you're doing both parties a disservice.

I don't allow the reviews to be "proofed" or read beforehand by the vendors before I publish them, specifically to avoid being "influenced" by their opinion of my opinion. I have discussed the review with SlikStik since, and they did mention to me that they were considering offering stronger springs with the handles. I've updated the review to mention that.

But don't get me wrong, I fully appreciate the intentions of your website, from both the self-serving and public-serving positions... In fact I'm sure I envy you

Talk about a back-handed compliment.  

[Xiaou2]

 In my opinion... i think these sticks are more or less for looks above all.... tho I personally think they dont look that great, as they wont match much of anything else.

 Mechanically thinking... if one had to move a character quickly from left to right, you would want a shorter stick that weighs less.   The extra weight will slow down motions like "back+back+forward"  typical in top fighters... and must be performed at hyper speeds.

  The smooth steel in sure will get slippery with sweaty palms...  

  The added weight will also probably quicken  hand/wrist fatigue...

  Overall.. I think the 150% claim is complete marketing ---smurf-poo---.  If you want to sell a pretty stick... then say its pretty... but dont try to sell a pretty stick saying it can cook you breakfast...better than you can...

 Btw: Changing the springs to heavier springs will make it the same action as a typical joystick... but,  you will lose that feeling that you state that you like:  the ease of diagnols and rolling motions.   The reason these are easier to perform is because the weight keeps the stick from being pulled to the center - thus better accuracy as you dont have to fight the spring force vector.

(tho you lose crutial speed because you have to move a heavier mass back/forth)

 Now... you could achieve even better results by shortenting a competition stick, then lightening the spring to almost no tention at all.   The reduced stick travel would mean faster movments (shorter lever), and the lighter spring would mean no fighting the spring forces.  This is simular to the new japanese style sticks I believe.



 

   

 

[KevSteele]

 The smooth steel in sure will get slippery with sweaty palms...  

Believe it or not, I didn't have any issues with "slippery joysticks"  

I think it's probably because of the head design, and perhaps I gripped it differently because of that.

Who knows, maybe it has something to do with the stainless steel. I couldn't get any fingerprints on the metal, which I thought was strange.

Kevin

[IIOIOOIOO]

I'm dissapointed KS, that you would misinterpret my candor as animus. But surely, you will notice that I'm not the only person on the planet (esp not on the NGs) that has noticed the oddity of your relationship with SlikStik. But hey, as long as they're willing to dish out to you, good for you!

BTW, that wasn't a backhanded complement. I was saying that I admired your site for both the purposes that it served you (self-serving) and the purposes that it served the public (public-serving.) Both elements must be in place for a site to be successful. A backhanded complement would've been something more along the lines of...

Kevin, I think it's great that your trite little website is able to maintain some usefulness to the rest of us despite being a shameless vendor shill. It must be nice to have an unofficial corporate spokesmanship job, I sure wish I did!

And I didn't say that, because it would've been nasty and uncalled for...

[IIOIOOIOO]

Oh, and xiaou2... You're right on, but if someone were to ABSOLUTELY need to have the stainless steel sticks, I think that heavier springs would get them somewhere closer to acceptability.

However, I don't think that shortening the shaft on a stick will get you the effect you're looking for, since most people don't manipulate a stick from the very top of it. No matter how much you shorten the top, the spacing of the switches on the underside (the half below the fulcrum) is what determines the actual angle required to depress the switch. I mean, it might shorten the perceived throw SOME, but not as much as a quality precision stick with a shorter below-gromet throw.

[John IV [MameUI64]]

I have the Happ Super version coming this week and will note how they do on my site.  Part of my decision to go w/ them was I didn't route out my CP and these are taller.

[KevSteele]

I'm dissapointed KS, that you would misinterpret my candor as animus. But surely, you will notice that I'm not the only person on the planet (esp not on the NGs) that has noticed the oddity of your relationship with SlikStik. But hey, as long as they're willing to dish out to you, good for you!

You failed to mention the oddity of my relationship to Kelsey, either...I've reviewed his products as well. Was I too glowing in my review of them, or is he immune from "tainting" me as a reviewer?

Anyway, since you seem to be curious, let me give you a full history of me and SlikStik (abbreviated just to clarify things):

I ordered a SlikStik from them. It took over 8-weeks to arrive, and I hounded them with emails during that time (polite but persistant is my motto ;-) After I finally got my SlikStik, I ran into several problems (see my review). I spent a good month or so going back and forth with Christian, working out solutions to the problems I was having. He was great in helping, and we finally tracked down and fixed everything.

After the problems were fixed, I grew to really appreciate the SlikStik CP and the design work that went into it. However, after being accused of being a SlikStik shill (can't I say anything positive without being a shill?) I wrote my review of the SlikStik Classic to document my long road to customer satisfaction.

One of my comments in the review was about the lack of a manual. SlikStik contacted me about the review, and I mentioned that, as a freelance tech writer (and owner of Steele Writing Services), I could solve at least one of the problems I saw with the SlikStik. I ended up writing a user manual for them (now included in PDF format on an installation CD, something else I suggested to them.)

Since then Christian has emailed me with news of his new products. He's extremely proud of his products (overly so, sometimes, unfortunately!) I've kept my word about not disclosing upcoming products (mostly  ), and he's used me as a sounding board about the new products.

I will be writing the installation manual for the new SlikStik DIY cabinet, and our settled fee is that I get to keep the cab.

They have given me a Tornado spinner, a skirted aluminum knob, and two stainless steel joystick handles for reviews. That is the extent of my "dishing out."

That, in an nutshell, are all my links to SlikStik.

The SlikStik badge on my site is a favor of mine, a temporary "thank you" to them for the first few weeks while I am setting up the site - they originally offered to sponsor the site and supply me with web hosting services, but I declined because I wanted to remain unbeholden and wanted to keep my site independent.

Christian has treated me well as a customer, and (used-car salesman excitement aside) has been nothing but forthright in my dealings with him.

Enough candor?

[KevSteele]

I have the Happ Super version coming this week and will note how they do on my site.  Part of my decision to go w/ them was I didn't route out my CP and these are taller.

Please let me know - I'd love to hear how they feel with the Super's spring set.

Kevin

[OSCAR]

You failed to mention the oddity of my relationship to Kelsey, either...I've reviewed his products as well. Was I too glowing in my review of them, or is he immune from "tainting" me as a reviewer?

Well... my regiment of an apple a day and eating Kryptonite for lunch probably helps, too...  

[KevSteele]

Well... my regiment of an apple a day and eating Kryptonite for lunch probably helps, too...  

Ack...Kryptonite! Man of Steele...cannot move...

(okay, enough silliness, I'm going to save it for the videos.  )

Kevin

[Sasquatch!]

Aww, I was hoping that the "one last pointless demo" was you tossing one of the handles in the microwave.  

Seriously though, cool video, and I VERY eagerly look forward to the D9200 review.

[IIOIOOIOO]

And yet I did not call you a shill. Like I said, that would've been nasty and uncalled for... Overly-sensitive much?

[SlikStik-Christian]

SHHHHHHH, can't we all just get along!

[IIOIOOIOO]

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Oh, and just for the sake of the Internet Memory Police, I have no specific beef with SlikStik. In fact, I have purchased different products 2x from them, and have never had catastrophic consequences.

[Xiaou2]

IIOIOOIOO - I know what you mean by the fulcrum.  I was merely trying to expain how silly the comparison was.

 Anyway... I do think the accusation with kev is a little harsh.
 
 But... I do think that the review is definitely weighted in the wrong direction.

  I think the the Tornado spinner for instance is a great product.   Maybe the best spinner ever made... but... A lot of people here are loyal to oscarcontrols because kelsey is a good guy who goes the distance to help the community... and makes a good product line.  

 I think some people have a tendancy to weigh thier desigions/ and or Opinions  based on friendships rather than by complete rationality and or objectionality.

 I think that Kevs newest review reflects this... tho, I dont think he should be 'stoned' on the message board for it.

 Kev... I liked your spinner review... but this review is all wrong.  I think your initial first feelings were correct... loose and sloppy.  I think you need much more testing time to realize this.  Robotron isnt a good test game either... because you cant focus on a single joy.  Also, the game is more of a flowing-rolling type of game.  Try something like mortal kombat and youll have a new opinion of the thing.




 

[hyiu]

sorry... but have to jump in like this...

but I think some comments are too harsh to kevsteele !!!      

I am very much appreciate the comments, reviews, and site Kev has provided.... and if he thinks slikstick has a good product.... I think it is more than ok to say so on his review...

even if you don't think the metal stick is a good product... doesn't mean it is not a good product or others can't think its a good product....

let's be fair.... if you have tested it yourself and you don't like it, plz feel free to write up a review and video and sound track dissing it telling us why you don't like it....

but I don't think we have a right to dis Kev's review saying its biased.....    


my $0.02 cents....

[KevSteele]

IIOIOOIOO:

Let's see, you warned me about becoming a informercial guy for SlikStik. Does that not count as a synonym for "shill" ?

Before this spirals out of control (too late?), let me just say I stand by my review -- the joystick handles are just a set of stronger springs away from being excellent. As it is they are very good.

That a couple of you can imply that my review is slanted or biased when you've never even tried out the joystick handles is beyond me.

And yes, I did play more than Robotron (read the review - the written review. I do occasionally play more than Robotron  )

Kevin

[IIOIOOIOO]

Actually I warned you AGAINST becoming a shill. It was a cautionary note, not an admonishment. The english language is a handy tool, when used correctly.

But yes, this is the end of this thread. I'd sing a song for you all, but none of you would hear it.