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---fudgesicle--- mame!
Xiaou2:
Firstly, many Devs wouldnt have so many boards to Dump were it not for the
Non-Dev contributors. So to say that we are basically useless, is very poor.
There are people who contribute in many ways. From Artwork preservation,
to talking other collectors into dumping boards... to scanning schematics,
and more.
Mame was so stuck up in its ways once, that for anyone to use it they
had to have archaic dos box knowledge. Why? We could say that the team
didnt want anyone who wasnt a dev... or anyone who wasnt as computer
savvy as them to be able to use mame.
Fast forward.. and mame finally at least created a minimal frontend selector.
After all that fear about floods of ignorant fools... has anything bad happened?
The worst thing that happened... was an idiot trying to use the Mame name -
which had nothing to do with making mame easier.
And still, mame chooses not to support things like true Arcade shifter support,
so a wonderful community like this one... can not build a good race cab easily.
The original argument was that most people are using keyboards... and most
would complain about that setup. However.. Why would it be so hard to add
BOTH ways ? (By such a thing as switch in the INI that tells mame your
Choice of input method: Arcade Shifter / Keyboard Shifter ) Maybe 2 hrs
go into this feature... and makes 10000 people happy.. and more considerate
when donation time pops up.
There still is no surround sound support. (no more than 2 speaker channels)
No force feedback. No motor control. No light control output.
(Framework may have been added... but it would appear that framework was
not good enough, considering there has been Zero progress on it.)
And for the Roms....
Its understandable that Roms change. Its also understandable that mame
can not easily distribute roms to the masses. However... recently many ISPs
have shut down newsgroup support. That Used to be about the only way one
could get reliable roms. Now where to go? Some obscure website loaded with
popups / Trojans .... and who 95% of the time have incorrect Old roms?
And when you get roms.. are they split? Are they correct? Can you
drop then in... or have to merge them with an existing set?
Get a rom manager? The things are a nightmare to figure out. But whats worse...
is that after a few releases... it seems like those older roms which have changed,
are no longer recognized by these programs. So even if there was something
valuable inside them... they would just be labeled as garbage. Making the
task of updating even more frustrating.
Ever consider the consequences of having 500 versions of the same rom... and
all of them different... all over the web? Its not very good Imop.
What about people who actually repair PCBs? Have you considered how much
of a pain to not only find the correct rom... but to actually find one that is
supposed to work with the current board they have?
Maybe what mame needs... is its own streamlined Rom manager.
As well as dumping a special file in every rom (that mame will not start a game with
unless its present). The file would contain valuable rom information...
so that even if something went out of date... there would be actual data
to fall back on, so any rom manager could know what they actually were... and
thus know what changes would be needed.
One could even go so far as to list the version that rom was valid inside
that text file... should a person be desperate enough, could dl the correct
older mame version to play it.
Im not sure how to solve the Distribution aspect. But I can say.. that if
rom mgt was easier.. maybe the ones who distribute would be correct.
Trying to make it more difficult to sell pirate rom cds really only has
made it more difficult for the average user... and doesnt really stop a
dedicated pirate seller anyways.
Haze:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on September 06, 2009, 10:06:40 am --- Firstly, many Devs wouldnt have so many boards to Dump were it not for the
Non-Dev contributors. So to say that we are basically useless, is very poor.
There are people who contribute in many ways. From Artwork preservation,
to talking other collectors into dumping boards... to scanning schematics,
and more.
--- End quote ---
Yes, there are other contributors, but if they killed the emulator by making it unmaintainable due to absurd requirements of supporting obsolete romsets, they wouldn't have anything to contribute to. That's why it has to be developer focused. The development team are the lifeblood of the emulator and without them nothing else can live off it.
--- Quote --- Mame was so stuck up in its ways once, that for anyone to use it they
had to have archaic dos box knowledge. Why? We could say that the team
didnt want anyone who wasnt a dev... or anyone who wasnt as computer
savvy as them to be able to use mame.
--- End quote ---
Stuck in it's ways? The old system worked for the devs, and the focus was on emulated the hardware. There simply wasn't the focus or desire to spend time coding some fancy frontend when emulating hardware was what interested the developers. That is still mostly the case, other people take care of frontend work.
--- Quote --- Fast forward.. and mame finally at least created a minimal frontend selector.
After all that fear about floods of ignorant fools... has anything bad happened?
The worst thing that happened... was an idiot trying to use the Mame name -
which had nothing to do with making mame easier.
--- End quote ---
I doubt anybody actually uses it on a day to day basis, there have been plenty of complaints about it, but it serves a minimal purpose until people decide either to a) use the command line, or b) get a real frontend, or c) use mameUI or similar.
--- Quote --- And still, mame chooses not to support things like true Arcade shifter support,
so a wonderful community like this one... can not build a good race cab easily.
The original argument was that most people are using keyboards... and most
would complain about that setup. However.. Why would it be so hard to add
BOTH ways ? (By such a thing as switch in the INI that tells mame your
Choice of input method: Arcade Shifter / Keyboard Shifter ) Maybe 2 hrs
go into this feature... and makes 10000 people happy.. and more considerate
when donation time pops up.
--- End quote ---
There would still probably be arguments over what the real games have. The number of people who think Terminator 2 is a light gun game and start mouthing off because it doesn't work with guns is crazy.
--- Quote --- There still is no surround sound support. (no more than 2 speaker channels)
No force feedback. No motor control. No light control output.
(Framework may have been added... but it would appear that framework was
not good enough, considering there has been Zero progress on it.)
--- End quote ---
The lack of multi-channel support surprises me really. Internally you can specify multiple outputs, it's probably an OSD level thing.
As for force feedback, motor control, light control etc. they exist, the fact that people haven't used them extensively, or added output support in the drivers for them indicates a complete lack of demand for such features moreso than anything else.
FF, motors etc. can't be mapped directly to things like PSX pad rumble because that makes no sense and most arcade FF works in a completely different way. For that reason MAME provides triggers which can be detected externally and acted upon. People have used the light features in several projects.
--- Quote --- And for the Roms....
Its understandable that Roms change. Its also understandable that mame
can not easily distribute roms to the masses. However... recently many ISPs
have shut down newsgroup support. That Used to be about the only way one
could get reliable roms. Now where to go? Some obscure website loaded with
popups / Trojans .... and who 95% of the time have incorrect Old roms?
--- End quote ---
There are sites, obviously I'm not at liberty to disclose them, but it's not hard to find anything you want without any popups.
--- Quote --- And when you get roms.. are they split? Are they correct? Can you
drop then in... or have to merge them with an existing set?
Get a rom manager? The things are a nightmare to figure out. But whats worse...
is that after a few releases... it seems like those older roms which have changed,
are no longer recognized by these programs. So even if there was something
valuable inside them... they would just be labeled as garbage. Making the
task of updating even more frustrating.
--- End quote ---
Things require effort.. big deal, writing the emulator requires effort too! Can't go through life expecting everything handed to you on a plate.
--- Quote --- Ever consider the consequences of having 500 versions of the same rom... and
all of them different... all over the web? Its not very good Imop.
--- End quote ---
Ever consider the consequences of trying to support 500 versions of the same rom, with 499 of them being incomplete in some way, requiring workarounds to still function? Do you realise how ugly and unmaintainable that would make the project?
--- Quote --- What about people who actually repair PCBs? Have you considered how much
of a pain to not only find the correct rom... but to actually find one that is
supposed to work with the current board they have?
--- End quote ---
The latest is always the most complete. You're shooting your own argument in the foot here as many changes have come as a direct result of people wanting to repair PCBs, and expecting MAME to support complete dumps of every component. As for hardware variations, and bootlegs, MAME documents more of those than ever, making it even easier for people to repair PCBs. The latest version of MAME with the most current supported romset contains the maximum possible amount of information available at the present time, anything else is irrelevant. I'm guessing you're one of these people who thinks it's great that all the 'Good Tools' set have every old bad dump ever, even when good ones are available?
If everybody just picked and chose which sets were right because the latest MAME supported 499 incomplete / bad sets, and 1 good one, but people such as yourself insisted that some older set was better then it actually becomes much harder for people to repair PCBs because you lose the absolute point of reference for what is *correct*.
--- Quote --- Maybe what mame needs... is its own streamlined Rom manager.
As well as dumping a special file in every rom (that mame will not start a game with
unless its present). The file would contain valuable rom information...
so that even if something went out of date... there would be actual data
to fall back on, so any rom manager could know what they actually were... and
thus know what changes would be needed.
--- End quote ---
So that you could complain that MAME's rom manager is too complex too? romsets should contain devices dumped from the board, they should not contain information related to which MAME version etc. they belong to. If other people want to externally maintain such files (and they have) that's up to them. MAME just expects the most known complete dump of any game it supports, the is no reason for it to expect or support anything else.
Rom Management isn't the purpose of MAME. It tells you what something needs, the rest is up to you. It's a database of information.
--- Quote --- One could even go so far as to list the version that rom was valid inside
that text file... should a person be desperate enough, could dl the correct
older mame version to play it.
--- End quote ---
Well if MAME was to contain such information it would end up being bloated with said 499 versions of the rom getting in the way of the actual documentation, it's not the role of MAME to do this. Other people, external to the project have done (hint, rollback sets) and that's just fine.
--- Quote --- Im not sure how to solve the Distribution aspect. But I can say.. that if
rom mgt was easier.. maybe the ones who distribute would be correct.
Trying to make it more difficult to sell pirate rom cds really only has
made it more difficult for the average user... and doesnt really stop a
dedicated pirate seller anyways.
--- End quote ---
This isn't about making it more difficult to sell pirate rom CDs, this is about supporting the most accurate sets, and providing the most accurate emulation, and providing the best documentation of the PCBs, hardware and games available, benefiting anybody who wants to use MAME as a reference for either their own emulation or repairing PCBs in the most comprehensive way that is feasibly possible.
Your trolling isn't very good.
If YOU want to use an older version of the emulator nobody is stopping you, but you'll simply lose out on any recent progress for the sake of a few rom files, and before you start throwing the 'old versions are better anyway' argument I suggest you try the likes of Galaxian in the latest builds because the sound is truly fantastic, better than any old samples ever were.
Haze:
z
Xiaou2:
Maybe you should "Read" my reply before you answer. Never once did I
say anything about making mame able to use old romsets. You ASSumed it,
merely because it was in the thread which OTHERS were asking for that
very thing. We all know what happens when you ASSume...
--- Quote ---That's why it has to be developer focused. The development team are the lifeblood of the emulator and without them nothing else can live off it.
--- End quote ---
There is nothing that says Mame can not be user friendly, and have support
for things like real arcade devices. It would be a hell of a lot more useful than
writing a zillion mahjong porno game drivers.
And... if a rare game like BOUNCER came up... costing a heavy buck.. you think
the DEVs alone have a shot in hell to get it? Nope. They will NEED the funds
of the collective fanbase. The very fans that Mame had originally chose to
shun... and later, just ignore pleads for simple things like arcade shifter support.
AND... if mame were so encouraged to show more support of its fanbase...
maybe the amount and frequency of funds pouring in would triple. Which would
mean getting hold of some very rare and expensive PCBs before its way too late.
--- Quote ---There simply wasn't the focus or desire to spend time coding some fancy frontend
--- End quote ---
There was no need for a Fancy Frontend. The point was to make it at least
friendly enough to be ran by clicking on the Exe like every other modern program
of that time period.
The need for the Frontend has lessened a bit... because Frontend and Mame32
released have been swift in their releases. However... back then that was not
the case.
The combination of new people getting frustrated because mame wouldnt
run... Plus the Mame board filled with snooty aHoles, damaged a lot of possible
contributions. From donations... to actual collectors who would otherwise
been happy to loan stuff out.
You can tell us all how unimportant we are... how we should kiss the ground you
walk on... and then cry when you cant afford the latest rare PCB cause we
collectively tell you to kiss off.
You make it out as an "US vs Them" senerio.. and that isnt how it should be.
And I can tell you easily, that some of the Original game programmers would be
downright sickened by some of the crappy attitudes seen coming from some of
the Devs.
That said... I have still thank the devs for all the hard work that they have
put into saving the history of these artworks. Even if its only Partially saved...
(so many things Lost, merely because that isnt the Focus)
--- Quote ---There would still probably be arguments over what the real games have. The number of people who think Terminator 2 is a light gun game and start mouthing off because it doesn't work with guns is crazy.
--- End quote ---
Mame already has the ability for a person to use almost any controller possible
to control a game. T2 can actually be controlled via LCD Topgun lightgun.
Probably not very well... but Ive heard its been done.
However, a game like Spy Hunter... which Needs lightning fast reactions
NEEDS a proper arcade shifter (as well as the wheel, etc) to play it to any
great success. Toggle mode does not work well. A shifter can not be
easily hooked up to toggle, as one switch is always depressed. Trying to
use a button to play is impossible. Might as well remove games like SpyHunter
cause they are not playable without a proper shifter.
Having a 'held' switch is just about the Only function that mame can not do.
And maybe the simplest to add. And maybe one of the more Important for
arcade playability.
Also, if mame is Harcoded to tell you what control its supposed to use,
there would be no argument. You can use whatever control you desire..
but mame lets you know what the original control are supposed to be..
by looking in the inputs menu.
Mame also "Should" be documenting controls IMOP. From number of teeth
on a Tron spinner... to diameter, and the type of encoder used. Replicas
of real controls can be made... and should be made to original spec...
thus matching the original games controlability (so you cant cheat).
However... if no documentation exists for these controls... one day,
there might not be a way to know exactly what was supposed to be used,
and nobody knowing what level of control the programmers originally intended.
--- Quote ---The lack of multi-channel support surprises me really. Internally you can specify multiple outputs, it's probably an OSD level thing.
--- End quote ---
Maybe the devs could consider making these Work rather than investing in
some crappy clone of an existing game that has 4 working variants? Or
take a break from a Mahjong fest even.
One would think that the goal of emulating a game would extend to
full replication of the arcade hardware. A simple game like Turbo has 3 channels...
one Being the bass subwoofer. Having the sounds directional, and separate,
makes a HUGE difference in how these games sound.
--- Quote ---As for force feedback, motor control, light control etc. they exist, the fact that people haven't used them extensively, or added output support in the drivers for them indicates a complete lack of demand for such features moreso than anything else.
FF, motors etc. can't be mapped directly to things like PSX pad rumble because that makes no sense and most arcade FF works in a completely different way. For that reason MAME provides triggers which can be detected externally and acted upon. People have used the light features in several projects.
--- End quote ---
As far as Ive heard... some have TRIED to get cooperation with mame system
and failed. There were various reasons for it.. and Im not so sure they were
corrected. I believe it needs changes on Mames end.
Plenty of people have interest in adding support for something like T2 guns
recoil coils. As well as the Shaker motor in Outrun (which operates the same as
the shaker motors in a typical rumble gamepad).
If support is actually finally working, and working well... its news to me.
I will also add that such things take some time for hardware creators... such
as Groovy game gear, to make products which take advantage of them. And
time for enthusiest to gather the cash to acquire them.
Playing T2 without the recoil coils... or Outrun without the shaking wheel just
isnt the same. These were put there for good reasons, as they add to the
realism and enjoyment of the games experience. They should be replicated and
saved properly.
If mame outputted motor control to gamepad shaker motors, it would be a
lot easier for hacking them into controlling larger motors. Outruns shaker motor
operates exactly the same: A motor that spins a crankshaft.. which makes
the wheel assembly slide side to side. T2, while coil based.. still operates on
pulses. Pulses sent to the FFB motors of a gamepad hack could easily be
converted to high current Coil drivers. The sitdown motion cabs in Outrun
used one motor for turning a shaft back/forth which moved leaned the seat.
While a gamepad rumbler only has one direction... you could assign one
FFB rumble motor to driving the "Forwards" motion.. and the other FFB to
"Reverse". Using 2 gamepads for cockpits like Afterburner which would need
4 rumble motors for both x & y directions.
A FFB driving wheel is also merely a simple motor driven belt under tension. Two way operation. Its simple as pie if one really wanted to hack it to work.
Even if someone had enabled the FFB and only had a rumble controller... if
configured "default" where motors only operate one way... then it wouldnt
cause any problems. One side would be on when something moved forwards,
and the other side motor when something moved backwards.
Using direct USB controllers like this would probably make it 20x easier for
a hardware company to produce a professional board option. It would also make
it 1000x more easy for the hardware hackers to create working devices.
--- Quote ---Things require effort.. big deal, writing the emulator requires effort too! Can't go through life expecting everything handed to you on a plate.
--- End quote ---
There is a difference between effort and stupidity. Why ride a horse and
buggy to the store when there are cars which get there in less time, and
are much easier to deal with?
Rom managers are dangerous. They often have bugs which can cause problems
with accuracy - destroying some sets. Mame does not Regulate them... and so
there is no telling if these things are correct or not.
If there is something to make life easier, more efficient, more accurate...
than one would think that would be a better course of action...
--- Quote ---The latest is always the most complete.
--- End quote ---
Making rom mgt easier and more mangeable would be a gain in keeping old
sets from being spread all over the place. That was my point. Your Assumptions
were all wrong, as usual.
Is looking at a roms data enough to tell that its not complete or partly
corrupted? Are there cases where a repair man may need more information than
what is listed in the actual set data?
This is my point.
Guru used to put out information included in the rom files. But, people took
these out to save a tiny bit of space. If Mame were to make it mandatory
(wont start game without the file) to have a special text file in them... then
it would better preserve such information that could be very useful / helpful
in the future. The file could be CRC'd so any changed made to it would make
it invalid to keep people from creating a blank file.
This file could also have a tracking number of sorts, which would help should
the roms identity somehow got changed so many times that a typical mgr. could
not understand what it was supposed to be.
Haze:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on September 06, 2009, 05:08:25 pm ---
Maybe you should "Read" my reply before you answer. Never once did I
say anything about making mame able to use old romsets. You ASSumed it,
merely because it was in the thread which OTHERS were asking for that
very thing. We all know what happens when you ASSume...
--- End quote ---
Your post was defending a guy asking for this, so stop acting like an ASS yourself.
--- Quote --- There is nothing that says Mame can not be user friendly, and have support
for things like real arcade devices. It would be a hell of a lot more useful than
writing a zillion mahjong porno game drivers.
And... if a rare game like BOUNCER came up... costing a heavy buck.. you think
the DEVs alone have a shot in hell to get it? Nope. They will NEED the funds
of the collective fanbase. The very fans that Mame had originally chose to
shun... and later, just ignore pleads for simple things like arcade shifter support.
AND... if mame were so encouraged to show more support of its fanbase...
maybe the amount and frequency of funds pouring in would triple. Which would
mean getting hold of some very rare and expensive PCBs before its way too late.
--- End quote ---
zzzz Mahjong troll zzzzz (you know we get more thanks for emulating these things from people in Japan than anything else?, Just because _you_ don't care...)
As for donations and rare games, I'm not holding a gun to anybody's head. If games cost too much they often don't get bought even now. It's just the way it goes. The last couple of things I've worked extensively on have come out of the funds of the devs working on them with me, and we just bought a couple more boards for the next project.
Contributing towards rare boards is a choice. There are some very rare and expensive mahjong games that could do with tracking down too. Some PCBs will be lost forever, some already have been, it's just a fact of life. Of course it's good to see rare things get picked up (although I cringe at some of the obscene prices) but really, people wouldn't be buying them if they didn't think somebody would emulate them. I fail to see what any of this has to do with the rest of the argument. You're saying the development team should bow down to nonsensical demands from users just because they're paying money for games? It's a voluntary donation, it's not our wages and the users aren't our employers. If the development team were paid for their work on MAME the entire donation budget for the last 10 years would probably be gone on 2 weeks wages.
--- Quote --- There was no need for a Fancy Frontend. The point was to make it at least
friendly enough to be ran by clicking on the Exe like every other modern program
of that time period.
The need for the Frontend has lessened a bit... because Frontend and Mame32
released have been swift in their releases. However... back then that was not
the case.
--- End quote ---
There are plenty of command line tools other than MAME. I use them on a daily basis, I don't understand where you get this 'every other modern program of that time period' from, just sounds like another troll to me. Heck, I'm using one right now, it's got a very similar name to MAME, it's called 'LAME' and it's by far the most popular MP3 encoder out there, and it's command line based! (fancy that)
--- Quote --- The combination of new people getting frustrated because mame wouldnt
run... Plus the Mame board filled with snooty aHoles, damaged a lot of possible
contributions. From donations... to actual collectors who would otherwise
been happy to loan stuff out.
You can tell us all how unimportant we are... how we should kiss the ground you
walk on... and then cry when you cant afford the latest rare PCB cause we
collectively tell you to kiss off.
You make it out as an "US vs Them" senerio.. and that isnt how it should be.
And I can tell you easily, that some of the Original game programmers would be
downright sickened by some of the crappy attitudes seen coming from some of
the Devs.
That said... I have still thank the devs for all the hard work that they have
put into saving the history of these artworks. Even if its only Partially saved...
(so many things Lost, merely because that isnt the Focus)
--- End quote ---
No, the original posts here were making it out to be 'Us vs. Them' by stating that we won't do things they want like supporting old romsets. MAME doesn't drop to such levels, we just get on with doing things, and doing things _right_. It's other people who see the decisions are made as being against them when really they're just the most logical decisions that keep the project alive and moving forward, and as I said, that's where the focus is. The focus isn't on ******* people over as you and several other posters here make out, however the focus also isn't on ******* the project over by making dumb changes on demand.
--- Quote --- Maybe the devs could consider making these Work rather than investing in
some crappy clone of an existing game that has 4 working variants? Or
take a break from a Mahjong fest even.
--- End quote ---
wow, back to the old Mahjong!!!!! OMG!!! troll.. Come on, you can do better than that. I say we rip out Spy Hunter because it's a piece of garbage and causes people to moan about controls. Maybe, just maybe I find working on these drivers more interesting than hacking up the OSD code?
--- Quote --- One would think that the goal of emulating a game would extend to
full replication of the arcade hardware. A simple game like Turbo has 3 channels...
one Being the bass subwoofer. Having the sounds directional, and separate,
makes a HUGE difference in how these games sound.
--- End quote ---
As always, we await your submission, such a submission wouldn't be rejected if it was done properly. Personally I'd rather work on emulating more Mahjong games and the occasional really cool thing like B.Rap Boys and Shogun Warriors. Changing the OSD code is as much my thing as it is yours, so why should I be expected to do it instead of working on things I understand and enjoy working on. Again, you seem to be treating the situation as if I'm your employee and you have some divine right to tell me what to do. (Hint, this is why developers get fed up, and appear to have a bad attitude)
--- Quote --- As far as Ive heard... some have TRIED to get cooperation with mame system
and failed. There were various reasons for it.. and Im not so sure they were
corrected. I believe it needs changes on Mames end.
Plenty of people have interest in adding support for something like T2 guns
recoil coils. As well as the Shaker motor in Outrun (which operates the same as
the shaker motors in a typical rumble gamepad).
If support is actually finally working, and working well... its news to me.
I will also add that such things take some time for hardware creators... such
as Groovy game gear, to make products which take advantage of them. And
time for enthusiest to gather the cash to acquire them.
Playing T2 without the recoil coils... or Outrun without the shaking wheel just
isnt the same. These were put there for good reasons, as they add to the
realism and enjoyment of the games experience. They should be replicated and
saved properly.
If mame outputted motor control to gamepad shaker motors, it would be a
lot easier for hacking them into controlling larger motors. Outruns shaker motor
operates exactly the same: A motor that spins a crankshaft.. which makes
the wheel assembly slide side to side. T2, while coil based.. still operates on
pulses. Pulses sent to the FFB motors of a gamepad hack could easily be
converted to high current Coil drivers. The sitdown motion cabs in Outrun
used one motor for turning a shaft back/forth which moved leaned the seat.
While a gamepad rumbler only has one direction... you could assign one
FFB rumble motor to driving the "Forwards" motion.. and the other FFB to
"Reverse". Using 2 gamepads for cockpits like Afterburner which would need
4 rumble motors for both x & y directions.
A FFB driving wheel is also merely a simple motor driven belt under tension. Two way operation. Its simple as pie if one really wanted to hack it to work.
Even if someone had enabled the FFB and only had a rumble controller... if
configured "default" where motors only operate one way... then it wouldnt
cause any problems. One side would be on when something moved forwards,
and the other side motor when something moved backwards.
Using direct USB controllers like this would probably make it 20x easier for
a hardware company to produce a professional board option. It would also make
it 1000x more easy for the hardware hackers to create working devices.
--- End quote ---
MAME's current output system is as simple as you can get, mapping stuff to joypad rumble would only make it harder because it's pad specific. Right now if you hook something up as an output in MAME you can detect it's exact state externally and hook it up to whatever you want, couldn't get more direct.
[
--- Quote --- Rom managers are dangerous. They often have bugs which can cause problems
with accuracy - destroying some sets. Mame does not Regulate them... and so
there is no telling if these things are correct or not.
If there is something to make life easier, more efficient, more accurate...
than one would think that would be a better course of action...
--- End quote ---
Can't remember the last time I encountered a bug in a ROM manager, nor one that was even hard to use. Legally it makes more sense to keep things like this OUT of Mame. Seems another case of you being unwilling to put in the effort to learn something. CLRMame does a fine job, it's updated on a regular basis, you have to be pretty dumb to screw up with it. There's no chance that MAME could ever implement anything even comparable (and if it did, you'd just make the same unfounded moans about rom management being dangerous, but this time blame MAME for screwing up the roms instead..no win situation for the development team) Asking MAME to become a rom manager is like asking it to become a complete DVD burning package just because we support some games in CD format, a file sharing program, or asking it to make cups of tea for your break. It's simply not the purpose of the project and choices are made on that basis. Again, this isn't 'Us vs Them' it's simply the filtering out of suggestions which make no logical sense and have no real benefits.
--- Quote --- Making rom mgt easier and more mangeable would be a gain in keeping old
sets from being spread all over the place. That was my point. Your Assumptions
were all wrong, as usual.
Is looking at a roms data enough to tell that its not complete or partly
corrupted? Are there cases where a repair man may need more information than
what is listed in the actual set data?
This is my point.
Guru used to put out information included in the rom files. But, people took
these out to save a tiny bit of space. If Mame were to make it mandatory
(wont start game without the file) to have a special text file in them... then
it would better preserve such information that could be very useful / helpful
in the future. The file could be CRC'd so any changed made to it would make
it invalid to keep people from creating a blank file.
This file could also have a tracking number of sorts, which would help should
the roms identity somehow got changed so many times that a typical mgr. could
not understand what it was supposed to be.
--- End quote ---
Uh, then the roms you dumped wouldn't be able to run in MAME without creating some special magical file in a format only Guru can create. You know that defeats the entire point, and again creates extra work for the devs in creating fake files? I don't appear to have missed the point, you're again demanding the developers do extra work which has no benefits at all.
The source files give you all the information you want, there are plenty of sites (such as MAWs) which present a large amount of the data from the source in a human readable form. The source also contains PCB layouts and other information. I've worked with, and helped a lot of people fixing boards using the information in MAME and the one common thing they're always grateful of is the fact that the latest MAME sources will always contain everything the team knows about any given piece of hardware. Considering you claimed at the start this wasn't your issue, you sure like bringing it back up.
The people worth working with are the ones who are willing to put in a bit of effort, given the number of success stories I've heard about people using MAME as a reference for repairs etc. I'd quite confidently say that the only people moaning now are the ones who are not willing to put in the effort and expect everything to be handed to them on a plate.