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New(ish) Rambo shooter

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CheffoJeffo:

How come you guys let a battle with Mr Strongtanium(tm) go on without me ?

Nobody likes to fight Mr. Strongtanium(tm) more than I do!!!!

* CheffoJeffo reads the thread over ...
Oh, wait, he's right.

Damn!

Except that I think that video arcades killed video arcades. All of a sudden there were eleventy12 brazillion machines and the market couldn't support it. Arcades couldn't rotate in new games nearly as quickly as they were being produced (without taking a profound loss). It all collapsed under its own weight in the early 80s.

Sure enough, home technology came along later that was equal to or better than what we had in the arcades. The Dreamcast really was the first to do so overall and was the first console that I bought after my 2600.

Namco:

I disagree with anyone saying that Cruisin USA looks better than Tekken. In one game you have a box with car textures on it driving past flat sprites. In the other you have two fullly rendered 3D characters with 10x the polygons; arms, legs & joints animated with extremely lifelike motion capture. Ask anyone at the time which is more impressive and they'll all say Tekken.

Beretta:


--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on August 12, 2009, 05:48:57 pm ---
--- Quote from: Beretta on August 12, 2009, 05:07:41 pm ---wow dude you are lost in the sauce.
--- End quote ---

Go practice your juvenile comments elsewhere.
--- End quote ---
why?, this seems like the perfect thread for them.


--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on August 12, 2009, 05:48:57 pm ---
--- Quote ---it's already been stated the .vs system was as close as could be considered "as good".. or maybe you can nitpick that apart.. i can't tell the difference but im sure there is some minute difference in game play and graphics that you'll claim or maybe some minor hardware difference, oh wait you dont have to enter quarters at home and it does'nt say insert coin damn.. not as good.
--- End quote ---

The Vs. system and PlayChoice were both 1983 NES home console hardware stuck into arcade cabinets years later. It was not developed for the arcade. Nintendo was still developing arcade hardware during the time that they made the NES hardware, and it was far more powerful than their NES hardware (e.g., Punch-Out hardware); because it was intended to be arcade hardware, like nearly all other hardware platforms used in arcade machines.

So of course a NES version of a game was "as good" as the Vs. or PC-10 version; I obviously never claimed otherwise.  
--- End quote ---

interesting thought if they was good enough for home console then brought ot the arcade that might say something.


--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on August 12, 2009, 05:48:57 pm ---
--- Quote ---you say you original respones started from me stating that playstation was the tipping point where you could get as good or better at home, this lead to the fall of the arcades, i never made a claim that consoles before it did'nt hurt arcade attendance, only i think PlayStation was the point of no return for the death of the arcade.
--- End quote ---

I never said that you did.
--- End quote ---
your respones try to make a point that neo geo was as good as the arcade their for somehow im wrong about playstation.. seems to me it's exactly what you're saying, trying to use neo geo as a counter point.

when in fact VERY few people actually had neo geo's dare i say it had zero impact on the death of the arcade.


--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on August 12, 2009, 05:48:57 pm ---
--- Quote ---then there is a rebuttal that the playstatoin was actually the basis for some games in teh arcade, but you come back that oh no those graphics suck..
--- End quote ---

My rebuttal actually is that the PlayStation was developed as home console hardware; in fact, its development started out as a CD drive add-on for the SNES; and that's why arcade games which used this platform had bad graphics. If Namco had spent the time and money to develop custom hardware specifically for the arcade (where they wouldn't have had to worry about making it affordable for home consumers like console developers did), Tekken could have had far better graphics.
--- End quote ---
hmm like i said i remember playing tekken in the arcade before playstation was even released, either my memory is bad or your wrong, like i've also said regardless if this is true or not you seem hung up on having EXACT same "game" play on the consoles where my statement was more wider and took in games in general, we're not talking about just "system 11" im talking about games from any hardware platform in the arcade, take your pick if it was ported to playstation more often the not it was as good unless you wanna be a freak about it and find flaws that was'nt obvious.. to me there was'nt any so they was "as good"

i have a hard time beleving PlayStation was to be the ill fated snes cd.


--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on August 12, 2009, 05:48:57 pm ---
--- Quote ---well im not sure if you are claiming the playstation port sucks, or the graphics of the arcade also suck,
--- End quote ---

They both suck. They're the same thing.
--- End quote ---
well then the playstation version was "as good" then thank you for agreeing, rather you like tekken does'nt really matter now does it?, rather or not there could have been a better "tekken" is pretty moot cause there is'nt.

btw graphic wise it was better then virtua fighter which although what 6months earlier released? was pretty bad graphics wise.

this is'tn a chicken and the egg argument the point was you could get as games on par with the arcade at the time.


--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on August 12, 2009, 05:48:57 pm ---
--- Quote ---i find it funny that you defend neo geo on the basis of hardware, not the basis of great games or great graphics way back in the way back that you claim is so important for it to trump the playstation.
--- End quote ---

Neo Geo did have great graphics; equal or better than anything else in the arcades at the time. I've said this before, whether you realize it or not. The reason it had great graphics is because it was developed as an arcade platform; they used a 12 mHz processor; custom graphics chipset; its cartridges supported 330 Mb (41 MB) of ROM (about 6 times the size of arcade SFII); top-end expensive stuff at the time.
--- End quote ---

just going over mame roms i dont see any early games that used that full 330mega bit cartage space.

i do realize it used the same carts as arcade, do you honestly think neo geo had any impact on the fall of the arcades when very few people actually owned one?


--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on August 12, 2009, 05:48:57 pm ---
--- Quote ---also i distinctly remember playing tekken before playing it on playstation.. it was a 1st generation game on playstation.. so i think your argument that playstation came before the arcade is wrong it was either developed for both uses in mind at the same time OR it was in the arcades first.
--- End quote ---

It was developed as home console hardware. Somewhere along the line, Namco saw it as a quick and dirty solution, and Namco System 11 was born. They both came out in '94.
--- End quote ---
yes but what part of 94? and if they're both based on teh same hardware this is'nt unexpected, do you have any proof which came first? on second thought it does'nt matter because this is'nt about hardware it's about whats on the screen, playstation had a lot of "as good" ports regardless of what was originally ran in the arcade.


--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on August 12, 2009, 05:48:57 pm ---
--- Quote ---which does'nt really matter because rather it was used in teh arcade is of no consequence.
the games on playstation was as good or better then what was in teh arcade at the time..
--- End quote ---

Show me a PlayStation game that can match arcade Cruis'n USA (1994). Given that the newer N64's port couldn't do it justice, the PlayStation wouldn't have stood a chance of doing it justice.
--- End quote ---
im not gonna go dig up a game to pit it against, but lets say you're right crusin usa is better graphically then anything on playstation at the time, can you come up with more examples? i bet it would be a short list.


--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on August 12, 2009, 05:48:57 pm ---
--- Quote ---this is a blanket statement, this does'nt mean oh you could play neo geo games, oh you could play vs games before it.. no i mean reguardless of platform a large % of the games ported to playstation was as good as what was in the arcade reguardless of their original hardware..
--- End quote ---

All 3D PlayStation games looked like crap. Fortunately, only a handful of arcade games at the time looked like crap; namely the Namco System 11 games.
--- End quote ---
come up with some more, i suppose virtua cop, virtua figher, and daytona usa all blew tekken graphics away.. yup thats what they did. i honestly can't think of to many 3d games before playstation came out.


--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on August 12, 2009, 05:48:57 pm ---
--- Quote ---as for playstation not being able to handle cruisin usa, we'll never know since rare ware was in exclusive agreement with Nintendo at the time.

--- End quote ---

It is easy enough to figure out. The N64 had better looking graphics than the PlayStation, so if the N64 port didn't stack up to the arcade, a PlayStation port definitely wouldn't have. As I've said several times now, compare N64 Hydro Thunder to PlayStation Hydro Thunder to see how the two consoles compare to each other when porting the same game.

--- End quote ---
funny i had both systems and i only ever had about 12 games on n64, mario was great.. i originally bought the system thinking killer instinct (1) was gonna be on it, but they canceled that KI2 was'nt as good.. i always ended up going with play station for games is'nt that interesting that i would choose the vastly inferior playstation.

course thats a different thread i guess, playstation had better controls also, and squaresoft switching to sony sure hurt them.. i guess thats why sega and nintendo both got their ass stomped by sony.

if it was'nt for the WII Nintendo may not even be around anymore.

sega pretty much was dead by the time dreamcast came out. dont get me wrong i go ta dream cast i think it's a pretty good system.. but by then it was much to late for the arcades or sega.

dreamcast was never nearly as popular as playstation, hence why sega bailed out of the console business, their last hope failed, dreamcast had very little if any to do with killing to arcades far to late.

MaximRecoil:


--- Quote from: Namco on August 12, 2009, 06:33:47 pm ---I disagree with anyone saying that Cruisin USA looks better than Tekken.
--- End quote ---

Cruis'n looks good. A screenshot from the game could be an oil painting and it would look good. A screenshot from Tekken as an oil painting would inspire comments such as, "What's that, 'abstract'?"


--- Quote ---In one game you have a box with car textures on it driving past flat sprites. In the other you have two fullly rendered 3D characters with 10x the polygons; arms, legs & joints animated with extremely lifelike motion capture.
--- End quote ---

None of that makes it look good; and the motion is not part of the graphics; not to mention that they looked like they were moving under water.

--- Quote ---Ask anyone at the time which is more impressive and they'll all say Tekken.

--- End quote ---

I don't think so, but either way, you have no basis for that claim. My initial reaction to that game was something like "ugh".

Plus, judging by your screen name, you may be biased.

Namco:


--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on August 12, 2009, 07:02:39 pm ---
--- Quote from: Namco on August 12, 2009, 06:33:47 pm ---I disagree with anyone saying that Cruisin USA looks better than Tekken.
--- End quote ---

Cruis'n looks good. A screenshot from the game could be an oil painting and it would look good. A screenshot from Tekken as an oil painting would inspire comments such as, "What's that, 'abstract'?"


--- Quote ---In one game you have a box with car textures on it driving past flat sprites. In the other you have two fullly rendered 3D characters with 10x the polygons; arms, legs & joints animated with extremely lifelike motion capture.
--- End quote ---

None of that makes it look good; and the motion is not part of the graphics; not to mention that they looked like they were moving under water.

--- Quote ---Ask anyone at the time which is more impressive and they'll all say Tekken.

--- End quote ---

I don't think so, but either way, you have no basis for that claim. My initial reaction to that game was something like "ugh".

Plus, judging by your screen name, you may be biased.

--- End quote ---

Yeah I'm biased. But my love for Namco games aside, I'm having a hard time understanding how nice looking screenshots equate to how good a platform is. By that definition, the Z-80 based PCB + Pioneer LD player combo is way better than Naomi just because screenshots of Dragon's Lair look good. Sure Killer Instinct looks great, but in my opinion, it doesn't compare to Tekken or Soul Edge as far as gameplay. Sprites vs Polys;apples & oranges, I say.

EDIT: Reading this over my argument is stupid. I said Cruisn'USA doesn't look good, but then go on to say that it looks good, but technically isn't as good. I am stoopid....

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