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Author Topic: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR  (Read 10552 times)

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JeepMonkey

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Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« on: July 08, 2009, 01:56:37 pm »
There has been a thread over at RGP for a while now about making a limited production run of new Lord Of the Rings machines.

LOTR   Look at the post near the bottom of the past page by Pinball jack for the details.

Anticipated price is $5000, with 300 available.  You can hold a machine for a $100 refundable desposit.  I put in for one a couple months ago.  Man, I just don't know if I want to pull the trigger.  I figure if I am ever going to get a NIB pin, why not make it this one.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 02:12:19 pm by JeepMonkey »
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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2009, 02:01:47 pm »
the link is wrong
got COLOR codes from projects, post them here

add stuff to the uk wiki section

JeepMonkey

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2009, 02:13:28 pm »
Fixed, thanks for the heads up.
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Jeff AMN

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2009, 03:39:08 pm »
It's overpriced, but I have my preorder in! :D

The reason for the cost is pretty clear. First of all, it's a small run and they had to pay for the license again. This is pretty understandable to me. I know they're trying to put some extra touches on the machine to make up for the extra price like a mirrored backglass (not going to be a cheap translite), some autographs, a plaque, and some Limited Edition flair to the art.

All those things are kinda neat, but the real bonus is getting the game NIB. This is almost certainly the final run of the game and it's being limited to just 300 machines. I figure that those machines will be gone in the blink of an eye and suddenly many (like myself) are going to wish that they'd skipped a summer vacation and just bit the bullet. I know I'm paying a pretty high premium, but it's going to be worth it for me.

Also, should I ever choose to unload this, I think it will hold its value just fine. I hope not to ever want to part with it though.
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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2009, 04:38:35 pm »
I really would like to try a real LOTR! I tried it in pinmame, and was not even remotely impressed.

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2009, 04:48:56 pm »
The only way it's remotely interesting in pinmame is if you're trying to get to Valinor the whole time. This game doesn't play all that well through emulation so you have to treat it more like a video game than a pin.
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Charles4400

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2009, 09:21:35 pm »
If you've got the spare $$$ for it go for it! NIB LOTR will be awesome and a great NIB game to get. (with the optimal word of it being SPARE $$$)

Having said that, personally, (which I did myself) is I would hunt down a nice HUO one (which should start to show up more and more as the release gets closer for the special edition) and get that instead.

It will be about $1500 less... and if you think about it..is having no figures, a special backglass and plaque worth the extra $1500?......To me no.

Only 'real' justification for the $5k price would be to have the LOTR in pristine unflawed condition.... but only if you have no budget whatsoever....

But whoever decides to get one...props to them... no matter what they will enjoy it (as long as they don't have to sleep in the cardbpard box it was shipped in!)

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2009, 10:42:19 pm »
I really would like to try a real LOTR! I tried it in pinmame, and was not even remotely impressed.

I have only played one, but it was HUO, so it was 100% working.  I don't know that I'd call it the "best DMD game ever" but it is a pretty good game.

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2009, 01:10:51 am »

 A used Midevil Madness might be worth $5000...   But certainly not a LOTR.

 Rather buy 2 used williams gems over that new pin any day of the week.

 Best DMD... come on.  Maybe the best for a Stern...  but thats not saying a lot Imop.

 
 Stern should just give up,  buy out all the williams designs... and sell NIB william
remakes.  (maybe with some added bonus tweaks here and there... such as more
character tracks, enhanced rules..etc)



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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2009, 02:09:35 am »
I'm surprised it took that long for the Stern bashing to start. Give me a break....

People slam Stern but by most accounts they've put out several games that are starting to stand the test of time and some that are held in very high regard. Some call LOTR best game ever (it has a rabid following on RGP), others are saying Spider-Man is easily a top 20 game of all time, most agree that TSPP is a top 20 game as well, and stuff like 24, CSI, and Shrek/Family Guy are great in their own right.

On IPDB.org Stern has 3 top 20 games (LOTR, SM, TSPP).
On Pinside.com Stern has 4 top 20 games (LOTR, SM, TSPP, FG).
On Treasure-Cove.net Stern has 4 top 20 games (LOTR, SM, TSPP, FG)

Stern makes great games, but too many people are so quick to turn up their noses that they hardly notice. Yes, Stern has put out some duds or some games with good gameplay but a bad license, but Bally/Williams did the same thing. Bag on licenses like CSI all you want, but is The Shadow any better? Not really, but both are great PLAYING games.
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JeepMonkey

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2009, 07:56:00 am »
I have seriously considered buying a nice HUO LOTR as there should be a couple floating around once the new ones are coming out.  I have been looking for a LOTR here in the Kansas City area (say within five hours), but they just don't appear to be around.

If I could choose between a good condition TOM and STTNG or a new LOTR shipped, I would probably go with the former.
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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2009, 07:58:16 am »

 Stern should just give up,  buy out all the williams designs... and sell NIB william
remakes.  (maybe with some added bonus tweaks here and there... such as more
character tracks, enhanced rules..etc)

Dude, you are talking out of your nether region. You DO realize that most, if not all, Stern games are designed by the SAME people who made all of those classics you so highly covet. There is near zero market for pins, plain and simple. Stern doesn't have the tooling to make the tables you speak of. The only thing they would have going for them is the original design on paper, which is a small fraction of the actual cost of production.

The only knock on Stern is that their product quality is less than desired, and that really isn't their fault.

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2009, 08:03:59 am »
The only knock on Stern is that their product quality is less than desired, and that really isn't their fault.

I'm not a Stern hater but they choose some seriously stupid licenses sometimes.  I'm waiting for something like Kohler or Oodles of Noodles to be announced.

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2009, 10:43:14 am »
I think their licenses are odd choices too. Big Buck Hunter is coming out next and I have ZERO interest in that license as a pinball. Here are some licenses that would probably do well for Stern:

- Harry Potter (seriously, could be the next Addams Family)
- Ghostbusters (time has kinda passed, but our generation would eat it up)
- Super Mario Bros. (Gottlieb game still sought after, Nintendo is on top again)
- Pixar (have different sections of the playfield for different movies)
- LOST (I'm not big on TV themes, but this has to be better than CSI or 24)
- X-Men (duh!)

I would prefer original themes to licenses, but if you're going to go with a license, make it a GOOD one. Stern's best licenses have been Lord of the Rings, The Simpsons, Spider-Man, Indiana Jones, and The Dark Knight. You have to choose more iconic characters/themes rather than what's hot at the moment. Big Buck Hunter? Really?!
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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2009, 12:49:07 pm »
My advise is not to get caught up in the hype. 
You are paying $1500 more for the LE and all it gives you is a real Backglass.  Plus it removes the action figures from the game.  Not worth it in my opinion.  If you want a LOTR then find a nice HUO game.

I had a NIB LOTR and sold it about a year later for $3800.  I got tired of endless multiballs and games of 30 to 40 minutes.  I do believe this is a great game and is a complete package. 

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2009, 01:16:54 pm »
I think their licenses are odd choices too.

I still think they've gotten paid or done profit sharing agreements or subsidized risk or SOMETHING for some of those themes. 

All of your theme suggestions were terrible, btw, not that mine would be any better.

Well, I think they'd be successful, I don't particularly want any of them. Okay, so I'd like Ghostbusters, but I do think the rest would have more of a draw than a few of their other recent licenses.
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Charles4400

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2009, 02:52:03 pm »
I have seriously considered buying a nice HUO LOTR as there should be a couple floating around once the new ones are coming out.  I have been looking for a LOTR here in the Kansas City area (say within five hours), but they just don't appear to be around.

If I could choose between a good condition TOM and STTNG or a new LOTR shipped, I would probably go with the former.

Good luck on the hunt JeepMonkey! Keep at it and you'll find one...post on rgp for ones in your area if your ready to pull the trigger and see what turns up!

Took a little bit to figure out what I was doing when I first got it, but once you know what's going on and what you want to do (just like any other pin) you will be hooked! Great Game for the home!

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2009, 02:57:12 pm »

The only knock on Stern is that their product quality is less than desired, and that really isn't their fault.

I just really hate how the playfield lift ups (at least with lotr)...scary scary...too much room for error of scratching the inside cab or it coming down funny and messing up the side rails. Really awkard lifting the playfield if you are used to wms.

shardian

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2009, 03:00:49 pm »
Let's put it this way - if I had $5000+ to put down on one pin, I would probably take a fully restored pin from Treasure Cove over any NIB Stern.

shardian

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2009, 04:11:04 pm »
Let's put it this way - if I had $5000+ to put down on one pin, I would probably take a fully restored pin from Treasure Cove over any NIB Stern.

Why? 

Man, Sterns are built cheap, no doubt, but aren't you a little sick of watching the same 15 year old animations, listening to the same voice calls, and enduring the lame 'humor'?  I mean, c'mon, we're almost to 2010, I really don't want some boat anchor theme like Demolition Man in my gameroom.

I shudder to think of what the newest Sterns are like under the hood... where Gottlieb System 3s would have 5 or 6 screws, Williams would have 3, and Data East would have 2.  Can't even imagine how much costs could be cut tighter.

My actual play time with those 'boring 15 year old games' is quite limited. I had never even seen an addam's family pin until around 2.5 years ago. Still never seen a TZ in the flesh. I've played a bunch of them in pinmame, but have only played a tiny amount of real pins from the '88-'96 era. Ever since I was a small kid, seeing a real pinball machine was a pretty rare and awesome event.

I asked my coworker, who is 22, about his arcade/pin interactions. He was only in an arcade once as a kid. Only recalls seeing ONE pin his whole childhood.

My point - I can't think of a single pin from the early 90's era that I could claim I am bored of.

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2009, 05:02:24 pm »
[I really don't want some boat anchor theme like Demolition Man in my gameroom.

I like my Demolition Man pinball.  Its a good playing machine and the blue led's look awesome when the lights are dimmed down a bit.....or for that matter even when they're not.  There are certainly worse themes out there.

Regarding the topic on hand, man I love coin-op goodness - pinball included - but dropping that much jack on a pinball machine just seems outrageous to me unless you are very well off.  If I had tons of money I wouldnt bat an eye at dropping $5K on something I enjoy but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say most of us on here, while not poor or even struggling, would have to think long and hard before committing that much money to one pinball machine. 
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 05:06:07 pm by Flake »

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2009, 06:04:46 pm »
Quote
You DO realize that most, if not all, Stern games are designed by the SAME people who made all of those classics you so highly covet.

 Sure I do.   However, these guys are being forced to turn out Crap.
Read up on the recent Steve Ritchie rant.   Not that it wasnt obvious from
the start.  The fault is mostly all with Stern himself.

 
Quote
There is near zero market for pins, plain and simple.

 Thats not really true at all.   There are plenty of collectors and
well off people willing to buy good pins.  In fact, interest in pins
has been climbing steadily... as the worlds population has also been
climbing.

 
Quote
Stern doesn't have the tooling to make the tables you speak of.

 The tooling can be reclaimed or remade as needed.  See: Tron Handles.

Quote
The only thing they would have going for them is the original design on paper, which is a small fraction of the actual cost of production.

 As far as I see it... it costs far more to make an original machine than
to remake a pin that has existing specs.   There are few to no unseen pitfalls... no endless hours of whitewood development and testings. No
need for artwork  photoshopping designs.  No unknown failures
from poor mechanical placement/design.  And no resulting
outright bombs - such as Ripleys. 

 Stern has made quite a few pins that Nobody has any real interest in.
Instead of being able to run or re-run several lots of the same games
to recoop investments... they have lost huge sums because of their
poor design practices and bad theme choices.

 
 Making known Great classics in Pristine condition would excite the collectors and create a demand for many new orders.  Adding some
tweaks in there as a bonus... would further drive desire and thus
sales up.


 Stern can not seem to let up on directing his limited creative staff, or cutting the budget to the very minimum it can go...so this may be the only adequate and realistic option for them.

 Stern is like Paul Sr. from American Choppers.  He wants things fast,
and has no taste or artistic understanding (everything looks good to
him).   It was Paul JR. that had all the Talent in making that place known worldwide.  If SR. had forced JR. to cut every corner, to rush his designs, to put on parts and features that SR wanted instead...  then AC would barely be known past their own state... let alone have a tv show.

 Quality and Artistic integrity sells.  Selling cheap crap will barely make
ends meet.  Sure, there are a lot of 'Taste-Less' people out there... But,
there are many more who actually have an artistic taste... who can not
stomach the atrocities that Stern lets loose.


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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2009, 09:15:56 pm »
The only Stern themes that I don't care for are WOF, Ripley's, and Elvis.  The others may not turn out to be the best players, but I wouldn't turn down any other Sterns just because of theme.

I also think that an X-Men theme has great potential.  There may be a probelm as Stern has recently done two comic book movie pins in Spiderman and Batman.

Does anyone see a Terminator 4 pin being made?  I guess it is a little late for that.

I am a little bit surprised there wasn't a machine themed after the new Star Trek movie given the popularity of the STTNG machine.
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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2009, 02:24:55 am »
Xiaou2,

The thing you're forgetting is that if Stern decided to run a popular game from teh past that they're already trying to sell a machine that has thousands already in the hands of collectors and operators. There were over 20,000 Addams Family machines sold, they're not going to be able to sell another 5,000. Also, in order to re-tool to make these machines it  would basically run them into debt faster than a flop based on a machine where they use their own current resources.

To make money on something like a Medieval Madness run, they'd need to sell way more than they'd be capable of doing or they'd need to charge a big premium for the machine.

And no, interest in pinball isn't on the rise. The distribution network is in shambles and getting worse. Some states don't even have the ability to bring a Stern machine in, and it's not Stern's fault. For pinball to stick around, Stern has to be very conservative.

I like to give the guy a break, because he's literally living from machine to machine. He might be able to absorb one or two flops between mild hits, so safer licenses are what he needs to focus on. Margins are already razor thin, and raising prices would only kill the ability to put pins out there even more. Stern himself said that the private market is incapable of keeping pinball alive.
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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2009, 09:07:38 am »

They may have made 20,000 Addams Familys but I'm willing to bet more than half of them are gone now.  Addams and TZ are supposed to have monster quantities out there and yet they're both no more common on the used market than anything else.

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2009, 10:20:35 am »

 Quality and Artistic integrity sells.  Selling cheap crap will barely make
ends meet.  Sure, there are a lot of 'Taste-Less' people out there... But,
there are many more who actually have an artistic taste... who can not
stomach the atrocities that Stern lets loose.

Dude...you realize Wal-Mart is taking over the world right? I realize you don't live in the U.S., but c'mon! Get in the real world.

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2009, 10:30:53 am »
Remaking classics has never been a success and it's been done several times (Fireball, Pin-Bot...)

I don't know that I buy that and I've heard it several times.  "Success" is relative to the market expectations at production and cost to produce.  Sure, the followup Fireballs didn't sell as many as the original, but they were sold under different market conditions and with a dramatically lower production cost.  If development cost is cut in half for a remake then raw sales numbers don't have to be nearly as high as the original game in order to be considered a success.  Now, if people are talking creatively, that's a different animal.  It always "Fireball Classic sold half what the original did thus it failed" that people base it on and I just don't see that as a point that holds up to scrutiny.

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2009, 10:33:36 am »
Remaking classics and reproducing classics are 2 different entities. What is being discussed here is making exact replica's of the original machines.

Besides, doesn't Gene Cunningham own pretty much everything from William's pinball?

ChadTower

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2009, 10:44:56 am »
Remaking classics and reproducing classics are 2 different entities. What is being discussed here is making exact replica's of the original machines.

Besides, doesn't Gene Cunningham own pretty much everything from William's pinball?

I actually just recently listened to the topcast interview of him.  It didn't sound like even he had a 100% picture of what he owns but it was clear that Williams sold the rights to everything piecemeal between him and Wayne in Australia.  The split sounds such that neither one of them can reproduce most of the machines without licensing from the other.  That also rules out any game with a licensed theme unless they pay for that too.

There was some talk recently that he sold a lot of that stuff to a different party in Australia but I didn't follow closely enough to know if it was just inventory or if he shipped off any rights with it.

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2009, 01:09:53 pm »
That sale report was pretty overblown by Wayne. One thing everybody should know and understand is that Wayne is a thief, a liar, and a HUGE hypocrite. He fights to get eBay auctions shut down when people are selling custom parts for WMS/Bally games, but then he goes ahead and sells multigames with 48-1 boards in them. He's a jerk and totally unprofessional. Over the past few days he's been spreading rumors that Stern is going down real soon and that they haven't produced anything for a while and that they don't have anything in the pipeline. What a lying jerk.
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Xiaou2

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2009, 03:37:22 am »
Xiaou2,

Quote
The thing you're forgetting is that if Stern decided to run a popular game from teh past that they're already trying to sell a machine that has thousands already in the hands of collectors and operators. There were over 20,000 Addams Family machines sold, they're not going to be able to sell another 5,000.

 I do not think you really understand pinball.  Many pins have been completely destroyed
and parted out by now... because people didnt want to take the time and effort to
restore them.   

 We have Missing or dead pcbs,  acid damages,  floods ,lightning strikes/surges, fires, hurricanes, tipped over / sunken container ships, freight transport damages,
vandalism, and pins sitting in some grampas house - or a warehouse/barn collecting dust..
rotting, rusting, and warping.

 ALSO, remember that the number of pins were sold in numbers relative to the arcades.
The numbers of arcades + the number of pins were not extremely high compared to the
number of arcade players.

 And, given that the number of players kept growing... and multiplying offspring like
rabbits... that difference becomes even greater.

 The kids who passed through the arcades never thought it would be possible to
own a real arcade machine or pin.   However, as the arcades started to die off, and the
kids were adults... things changed significantly.   Us kids are willing to invest a good
chunk of change in a great machine.

 And that is not counting the wealth people out there.  Where I live, there is a group
of guys here that own entire basements filled with pins.  Some make ok or good money... while others are merely obsessed.


 Now, lets not forget that Ops still are in the game.  And, putting a Medievil Madness
out on location will still do very well.  In fact, my buddy had to beg high and low to try
to pursuade/pay  any ops from taking a game off-route so he could buy it.

 The story is still the same.   The games will still make enough sales to remain on route
for some time... and then can be resold to collectors.   There are of course also a ton
of collectors who will sell off their current machines for brand spankin new machines...
just because.  And Imop, there will still be more than enough demand for a boatload
of MM's.

 You could make enough to sell them from now till the year 3030.. and they would sell.
(unless someone made some even more advance and fun pins)  (Population continues
to grow... and new gens who previously didnt have the money now Do have it, and will
want to spend it on a great machine)

 But a pile of dog poo like  Ripleys?  All that did was further sour the ties with Ops.
And only the stupidest or most sympathetic of collectors bought them.  I know some
collectors buying sterns... not because they like them... but because they were trying
to keep pinball from a complete death.

 This way of being isnt going to keep working.  Its not working as it stands.

( Btw - They probably could also get a deal with places like Museums.  The games may
be remakes... but they are historical designs / machines. )


Quote
Also, in order to re-tool to make these machines it  would basically run them into debt faster than a flop based on a machine where they use their own current resources.

 That makes no logical sense at all.  What cost more?  To have a plastic injection mold
from the past be re-used  (many companies who have made them never toss them out),
OR... to have all new molds made?!  FYI - AFAIK, Its like $10,000  for a detailed plastic
injected mold to be made.

 That does not even count things like the ball assemblies.  Every assembly that is
new has to be completely engineered from the ground up.  Such engineers are not
cheap... and the stuff takes a ton of time and testing to finalize each new part.
A simple assembly can easily take thousands of dollars to finalize.

 Remaking a known working / tested assembly?  Maybe 1/50th  the cost and time.

 Stern has some choices...  1) Keep making crap, and all orders will dry up eventually.
2) Make cheaper crap - like zizzle  and pray its cheap enough and enough desire to own.
3) Make Quality pins that people would Love to play and own.
4) Sell parts and 'easy to work software' - for  "Build you own pinball kits"
5) Repo and distribute parts only.


 Really man... its one thing to try to sell a poorly done painting for a few dollars.  But
quite another to try to sell that same painting at the Thousands of dollar level.  You really
cant sell  "crap"  at that price point.   And that is basically what they are doing.


Quote
To make money on something like a Medieval Madness run, they'd need to sell way more than they'd be capable of doing or they'd need to charge a big premium for the machine.

 There is no real limit to the number of machines one could build.  They simply would have
to be able to produce more pins within the set time lot in order to cover the bills of the
employees & facilities/electric...etc.    If they had to, they could simply hire more people,
and run the shop in multiple shifts. (non-stop flow)

 If they can produce and sell a game like  WOF,  then they can afford to sell a 
Really great game like MM.   WOF isnt going to be getting multiple lots like
LOTR and Simpsons did... which are what saved them from being completely buried.


Quote
And no, interest in pinball isn't on the rise.

 Wrong.  As said before, there are plenty like myself who has gotten older and
scrapped enough cash to get a dream machine.  Which once you have one... that
then multiplies.

 I know a local woman who went from zero machines about 2 yrs ago... and now has
bought 4.  She is already looking at another.

 The video pinball emulations have also sparked a great interest.   Video game players
who may have skipped out of pinball before.. have found digital machines that they
find intriguing... and want to play and own a real machine.

 Auctions and game shows are popping up left and right..   and the interest is
climbing.  The internet has helped to fuel the passion, and to spread the word.  Other
video pinball games for pc, and consoles... and heck... even the cheesy windows
xp pinball game have created interests.

 And what do you think the kids of the parents who own pinballs are gona want
when they get older?   Their own pinball collections.

 Btw - have you even noticed the number of video pins that have been created by
users for visual pinball as well as "Future Pinball"  ?


Quote
The distribution network is in shambles and getting worse. Some states don't even have the ability to bring a Stern machine in, and it's not Stern's fault. For pinball to stick around, Stern has to be very conservative.

 This is the worst idealism.  The whole reasons arcades went byebye...is because
they stopped originality, quality, and reduced the gameplay to crap.   So what do they
do???  They keep making the same level crap... expecting things to get better.

 Stern will NOT get better when they output crap.   They will have a chance if they
put out GOOD machines.   There is Tons and Tons of proof in this.
 

Quote
I like to give the guy a break, because he's literally living from machine to machine. He might be able to absorb one or two flops between mild hits, so safer licenses are what he needs to focus on. Margins are already razor thin, and raising prices would only kill the ability to put pins out there even more. Stern himself said that the private market is incapable of keeping pinball alive.

 I dont give Stern a break, because he is the one who is ruining it with poor choices.
Steve Ritchie tried to tell him the the collectors on the newsgroups were getting
fed up with the crap... and what does Stern say???   He asks Steve if there is any way
they can delete the messages!!!  He had No clue at all about the collectors... and didnt
care one bit about them.

 Stern does not realize how many collectors and new home pin buyers are the ones
who have really been keeping Sterns doors from closing.

 And yet, that isnt going to keep happening anymore.  Not with crappy themes,
poor gameplay, bad sound quality, poor artwork,  every corner cut, 
and cheap easily breaking assemblies.

Xiaou2

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2009, 04:25:26 pm »

Wikipedia:

Quote
High Speed's bill of materials was higher than other games, and some rival Williams designers nicknamed it "High Cost". The cost increase was minimal, and the game sold 17,080 units. It was the major title that revitalized the entire pinball market.

Jeff AMN

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2009, 11:55:56 pm »
You're oversimplifying things. First of all, Stern's factory is set to produce Stern parts, not Williams or Bally parts. To get the correct molds, presses, tooling, and such would cost a lot and it would take several success to offset the cost.

Secondly, and more importantly, Stern and his employees LIKE producing original content. They don't want to become the equivalent of a copy machine. They like what they produce and they feel that they do a good job doing it.

Someone in Australia is already trying to reproduce Bally and Williams machines and it hasn't been going well. He thought he had the funds, he thought he had the resources, and he's still not put out a single machine.

Stern has its place in the industry, and they don't need to be anything but what they are. Maybe they can come up with better themes and licenses, but they don't need to get into recreations.
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Xiaou2

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2009, 11:16:25 pm »
Quote
Stern and his employees LIKE producing original content.

 First off,  Stern  "HIMSELF"   likes making new content.

 The rest are liking the pay and the job.  They are paid to like what they
are told to make.  That does not mean they actually like the crappy
licenses, the shoddy artwork, and half a**  releases.

 I myself would be 10x more satisfied putting together a masterpiece
like Medievil Madness, Creature, IJ, TOM, etc.. than any of the Stern
releases.

 That said, Id love to see and or make original games.  Not crappy half-A**ed
games... but actual good original which match or top Williams best.


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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2009, 12:27:36 am »
The real problem here is that you're just not able to see that Stern does put out some good stuff. Lord of the Rings, Spider-Man, Family Guy/Shrek, and The Simpsons Pinball Party stand up well with the top tier Williams and Bally games. Unless you can see that, this discussion will remain circular though.
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ChadTower

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2009, 10:00:34 am »

Family Guy relies entirely on the license.  Without a 45 year old male niche license that game would be in the same list as Ripley's and WPT.  It's not a very good game.

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2009, 11:26:45 am »
As usual, you guys are in the minority when it comes to opinion on something... I am shocked!

I'm not saying anybody should be a sheep and just praise TSPP or FG/Shrek just because they're popular, but they are popular for a reason. FG can't just be relying on theme, because Shrek is just as highly regarded and it's just an art swap. I hate Family Guy the show, but the pin is excellent. TSPP is probably one of the deepest games ever made, and given enough time with it, it's pretty mind-blowing just how much is offered in that machine.
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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2009, 12:35:27 pm »
Maybe from a sales standpoint, but definitely not from a player's opinion.

Somewhere along the line with Xiaou2's input and my white knight reaction the argument changed from being about sales to a mix of sales and quality of game. So yeah, basically the thread is a mess.
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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2009, 01:05:52 pm »
I personally would buy one if I got a guarantee the magnetic ring mode would last...the one in my local arcade keeps breaking. I love the pinball though.

Other Stern Titles that I would love to have would be:

Roller Coaster Tycoon
Austin Powers
Spider-Man

I Also was NOT a big fan of FG or Simpsons....themed wonderfully but played like poo.


Kinda OT, but I was really sad to see Monster Bash leave my local arcade....one of my all time favorites.
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shardian

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Re: Limited Edition Run On New LOTR
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2009, 02:53:52 pm »

Other Stern Titles that I would love to have would be:

Roller Coaster Tycoon

I would really like to play a fully working condition version of that game. Chuck-E-Cheese has one, but it is so horribly broken now that it is 100% unplayable. Back when it had issues but was mostly playable, I grew to like it. Normally I am not a fan of Lawlor's combo shots, but the lower left - to upper right flipper combo was pretty cool. I also liked idea of turning on the rides (ramps) just like in the game. It was a very clever rule set tied into the theme.

Long story short, I would take this one for my gameroom too.