Revolution X monitor is FUZZY

[YoGaBaR]

Just picked up this 2p Rev X game and the monitor has all of a sudden gotten real fuzzy. I do not know if this can be fixed or not. Any suggestions.

Thanks

[qrz]

too blue .  could be dirty drive pots . weak crt. leaky blue drive xistor .......

tried turning down the brightness/contrast-blue drive ?

qrz

[Kevin Mullins]

Boy, that looks horrible in so many ways.

If it did this just shortly after moving it I would start by double checking EVERY connection on the monitor, make sure the neckboard hasn't started to slip off.

There is a FOCUS knob on the flyback..... but I think you have other issues first.

[YoGaBaR]

Thanks for the input.
qrz - I tried the blue but it was all the way down.

Tried a degausing thing and it did not work.

Kevin Mullins - I tried 3 seperate times to check every connection. PITA! but nothing happened. The picture is still fuzzy and crappy. the focus knob on the flyback you are talikg about, is that the thing on the neck near the base where there are a few levers on a circle thing?

[MonMotha]

The flyback is the (usually) black transformer with a (usually) thick red wire coming out of it and going to the "suction cup" on the tube (that's the HV anode, so don't mess with it).  It will be down on the main deflection ("chassis") board.  It usually has two or occasionally three knobs (pots) on it.  One (or two, if there are three total) is focus, and the other is the screen control.  Looks like your screen control is probably pretty close, so no need to adjust that.  As quick of a fix as it sounds, I wouldn't go messing with focus just yet: you obviously have another problem, too.

It sounds like you're describing maybe the convergence rings on the tube neck.  Don't mess with those for the time being.  It's probably set correctly, and even if it isn't, you can't really set it until everything else works.


Did you check the blue pot just on a remote board, or did you check on the neckboard (the board attached to the neck of the CRT)?  There are often two pots: drive and cut-off.  Cut-off affects darker areas and drive affects lighter areas.  Check both.

You can usually turn these pots all the way down and get none of that color.  If they really are turned all the way down, does turning them up do anything at all (even if it just makes it even more blue)?  There is a possibility that the pot itself is bad.


If all that's good, you may have a bad/leaky drive transistor, other cathode drive issue, or possibly a tube fault (bad).  Drive transistors are easy to check: swap it with another color and see if the problem moves or stays the same.  There are also usually some big power resistors in the cathode drive area, and if those die shorted, you can get something somewhat like what you're seeing.

Also, check things for bad solder joints.  They can be hard to spot, but cause all manner of problems.  The neck board would be especially due for a check in this case.  Also, like Kevin said, make sure the neckboard is securely attached to the tube.

[Kevin Mullins]

And if you can identify the monitor, that may help us point certain things out easier.

[YoGaBaR]

Thanks for the help MonMotha
I hope I got everything you were saying
I checked the blue on the video board inside the coindoor as well as the on on the neck board. The one on the neck board has a set of 2 then 3 dials. the first did nothing the second was brightness. the set of 3 was rgb.

I did however manage to get the manual online. went through the tests on the monitor to see what I could find out. I was missing 2 bars on the line test and when I tested RGB ( it makes the screen either RG or B depending on what you select) The Green and Blue worked fine but the Red was not there. I guess the red is dead on the monitor.

I fiddled with the wires disconnected everything and reconnected everything one wire at a time. The screen went relativly clear but with the same color distortion, but quickly went back to fuzzy. So is this another problem all together?

The neckboard seems fairly well attached it doesnt move. I looked at the neckboard closely and took off the videobard and inspected it. I could not see any broken solders or broken pieces. although I may not be able to see tiny hairline cracks because my eyes are not the best. - maybe playing with my glasses off it would be clear 

Kevin Mullins -
From what I could gather is that the monitor says
WG1777364
Tube Type WGEC 008x0407-001

Thanks

[MonMotha]

If a pot on the neckboard doesn't do "anything", that's likely cause for concern.  What's that pot labeled?

Wells Gardner's website is being uncooperative, so I can't look up that serial number.  There's usually a number somewhere on the main ("chassis") board like Pnnn.  If you can find that, it should ID it.  Or maybe somebody else here knows WG's serial numbering scheme and can ID it.

A picture should also ID it.  There's a stickied thread with reference pictures for you to compare to.

[FrizzleFried]

I have a T2.... similar configuration if I remember right.  The monitor is on the bottom facing up with the neck at the bottom?

Unfortunately that is the WORST position a monitor can be in.   All the "crud" that building up on the guns, etc drops down in to the neck.

You need to do two things:

(1) A cap kit

(2) Rejuvenate the tube

And what you have is a WG K7000 series 25" monitor likely.

[YoGaBaR]

MonMotha
The pot is labeled -red drv-
I will try to get a picture later.

FrizzleFried
I downloaded the manuals from WG for a k7000 25" but it looks different than what I have. There are differences on the boards where the pots are and other things.  Is the T2 an isolation transistor monitor as well. (I believe thats what the instructions called the monitor)

[MonMotha]

Go here and here for a bunch of pictures to help ID your monitor.  Knowing what it is will help.

OK, so your monitor is too blue, and you have no red.

Clearly blue at least works, so let's first try to make it not overly blue.  Try turning down blue cut-off and also possibly drive on your neckboard.  You should be able to adjust it all the way to the point that you have NO blue at all.  If you can't, then you probably have either a fault with a drive transistor (or something near it) or a CRT issue such as an internal short.  If you know a monitor tech or have a TV repair shop in your area, they can put your tube on a tester and check for such issues.

They can also perform a so-called "rejuvination" cycle which can improve performance, but I prefer to leave that until everything is mostly working otherwise, since there is some risk (though small) of further damage.

Let's hold off on troubleshooting the lack of red until we at least identify your monitor and determine if the "too blue" issue is just adjustment related or an actual fault.

[FrizzleFried]

MonMotha
The pot is labeled -red drv-
I will try to get a picture later.

FrizzleFried
I downloaded the manuals from WG for a k7000 25" but it looks different than what I have. There are differences on the boards where the pots are and other things.  Is the T2 an isolation transistor monitor as well. (I believe thats what the instructions called the monitor)

Isolation transformer... and yes,  most games from the 80's (all?) required an isolation transformer.  I'd have to get a good shot of the chassis to ID it for you. My T2 does have a WG K7000 in it though.

[MonMotha]

One more thing.  All these pots should operate SMOOTHLY as you adjust them.  If they feel "gritty" or cause "jumpy" adjustment behavior, then the pot could simply be bad and in need of replacement.  They do go bad from time to time.

[YoGaBaR]

MonMotha
I looked at the pictures and compared the pictures to what I have. It is a K7400 25" WG. I turned the knobs and they all turn smoothly. I have adjusted all things that have blue on them and the picture is looking better. The black is almost black, Like a light shade of black. Still blurry and distorted coloring with the missing red. Went through the diagnostic screen again on the game board that tests the monitor. I am still missing the red screen and the 2 bars in the bar test.
Thanks for the help guys

EDIT
The doc I found on WG website showed me 2 knobs I didnt see before. So the game is in focus now. All blues and greens are all he way down. Red still not working. I looked up screenshots online and found that player one is red and on my game where red is supposed to be its black. I am trying to get pics uploaded but cant for some reason. In person the screen doesnt look bad a little blue, but on a camera pic it looks very blue.

[Kevin Mullins]

I looked at the pictures and compared the pictures to what I have. It is a K7400 25" WG.

The 7400 does not require an isolation transformer, although if there is one in the cabinet then that's ok too.
There should also be a label on the main chassis with something like "P763" on it.

[MonMotha]

Can you grab a picture of the display now that the blue is looking better?  Often easier to spot problems from what the display looks like.

Grayish blacks could just mean that your brightness is just set too high.  If the brightness knob is all the way down and black still looks gray, then bump the "screen" control on the flyback down just a hair and re-adjust brightness/contrast.  Gray color will appear a little "off" given that you have no red.

If you can get a "good" image other than lack of red, then we can pretty quickly move on from there.  If you still have lots of image quality issues aside from lack of red such as too much blue, distortion, blurriness, etc., there may be other problems at play.

[YoGaBaR]

Hows this

[MonMotha]

Much better.  Still looks maybe a little blue, but nowhere near as bad as before.  Definitely have some pretty hot grays/blacks, so go ahead and turn down brightness, and see where that gets you.  It's looking like, other than lack of red, everything was just adjustment related.

[FrizzleFried]

Still looks like the tube needs rejuvin' to me.

[YoGaBaR]

It looks great now. Still can see the blue but its better. I cant get a shot to look any different than before. guess its the camera.
Thanks for all the help. It is very playable for now. Is there anything else that could be easy for me to do or is it ready for a rejuvinate if I can find a repair shop?

[MonMotha]

Assuming red works, tube looks fine to me.  A rejuv cycle might make it a little brighter, but it's tough to tell intensity levels from a picture.  You can possibly turn up contrast if it's dim.  If it starts to bloom before you get the white intensity up to your liking, then you might consider putting it on a rejuvinator.  You'll have to find someone who has one and you'll have to somehow either get the monitor (or at least the tube) to them or have them come to you.

Do you still lack red?  There's some simple troubleshooting steps you can perform before resorting to calling up somebody with a rejuvinator/tester.

[SirPeale]

For giggles, test R811 and see if it's open.  That resistor can cause some really screwy problems.

[YoGaBaR]

OK
 FINALLLLLLY. After so long waiting for the repair guy to find his tube tester. It turns out the tube was fine. Just a completly fried red transistor. So replaced all the RGB transistors and a cap kit and had a new flyback put in. Basically its a brand new looking monitor. Thanks for all the help guys.
YoGaBaR