Author Topic: Fixing a small crane machine problem (Read 11563 times)

fayt · « **on:** June 18, 2009, 09:23:21 am »

I bought an older 1980's crane machine and fixed some stuff on it. The very last part is the game play switch. When you drop a quarter in, it trips a wire which is suppose to give you a game. Clicking that wire does nothing. If I post pictures can someone please help me determine what the problem might be?

fayt · « **Reply #1 on:** June 18, 2009, 10:31:42 am »

Pictures

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #2 on:** June 18, 2009, 11:36:33 am »

Possible the switch is bad. Have you tried slipping those two quick disconnects off and touching the two qd's together?

fayt · « **Reply #3 on:** June 18, 2009, 02:26:05 pm »

Hmm by switch is bad, you mean the little black box that the wire is attached to? I guess it could be, but it does click when pushed down. The lights and sound don't flash or anything.

What two parts are you asking me to slip? the red connects that are connected to the switch? I did move them around to different connections on it, but how do you test the connection to see if its live?

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #4 on:** June 18, 2009, 02:34:27 pm »

Pull them off the switch (the two red connects), and tap the metal parts together.

ChadTower · « **Reply #5 on:** June 18, 2009, 02:47:40 pm »

Quote from: HarumaN on June 18, 2009, 02:34:27 pm

Pull them off the switch (the two red connects), and tap the metal parts together.

What that does is simulate a closing of the switch with the assumption that it is a normally open switch. If it's a normally closed switch then just removing one will test it. I doubt it's normally closed.

If that doesn't work, just to be sure, I would get your DMM set on continuity. Attach one lead to each lug of the switch and close the switch. If it beeps, your switch is good, if it doesn't beep, your switch didn't close.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #6 on:** June 18, 2009, 02:48:02 pm »

Wiring of the switch should have one wire on COM and the other on N.O. (normally open)

You can check the switch itself with a multimeter set on continuity.
Place one meter lead on each wire and then trigger the switch..... meter should go to zero or at least near zero.

Quote from: fayt on June 18, 2009, 02:26:05 pm

The lights and sound don't flash or anything.

But does the machine "come on" ?
By that I mean like in an attract mode or anything.
Is there a digital display of any kind on it?

EDIT:
Yeah, also what he said.

I was a bit slow.

fayt · « **Reply #7 on:** June 18, 2009, 03:04:57 pm »

Quote from: Kevin Mullins on June 18, 2009, 02:48:02 pm

Wiring of the switch should have one wire on COM and the other on N.O. (normally open)

You can check the switch itself with a multimeter set on continuity.
Place one meter lead on each wire and then trigger the switch..... meter should go to zero or at least near zero.

Quote from: fayt on June 18, 2009, 02:26:05 pm
The lights and sound don't flash or anything.

But does the machine "come on" ?
By that I mean like in an attract mode or anything.
Is there a digital display of any kind on it?

EDIT:
Yeah, also what he said.
I was a bit slow.

Yeah when I turn it on the lights come on, pushing the crane test button moves the crane and all. But the sound and flashers don't do anything, they should do something when the game is active in a play.

I took the connectors off the switch and touched them together and got nothing. All the fuses work because if I remove them then it doesn't work, either the lights go off, or the crane stops responding.

There is no digital display, it's just 2 buttons and a quarter slot. I will go take a picture of the actual machine so you can see what I am dealing with here.

What is DMM? Is that the multimeter device?

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #8 on:** June 18, 2009, 03:07:24 pm »

Quote from: fayt on June 18, 2009, 03:04:57 pm

What is DMM? Is that the multimeter device?

Yes.

fayt · « **Reply #9 on:** June 18, 2009, 03:13:11 pm »

Here is some more pictures of it. That weird thing I am holding, what is it? Is it the sound piece?

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #10 on:** June 18, 2009, 03:14:27 pm »

If I had to guess, I would say that is a volume pot.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #11 on:** June 18, 2009, 10:49:22 pm »

Quote from: HarumaN on June 18, 2009, 03:14:27 pm

If I had to guess, I would say that is a volume pot.

Could also be a claw strength potentiometer. (some older cranes have them)
Just depends on what it leads to.

That definitely is an older style crane, are there any manufacturers markings anywhere?
Is there a main circuit board in it besides the one pictured with the relays?

Looks like a clean machine though.

fayt · « **Reply #12 on:** June 19, 2009, 09:41:06 am »

Quote from: Kevin Mullins on June 18, 2009, 10:49:22 pm

Quote from: HarumaN on June 18, 2009, 03:14:27 pm
If I had to guess, I would say that is a volume pot.

Could also be a claw strength potentiometer. (some older cranes have them)
Just depends on what it leads to.

That definitely is an older style crane, are there any manufacturers markings anywhere?
Is there a main circuit board in it besides the one pictured with the relays?

Looks like a clean machine though.

Yeah it is old, there is a black market writing that has a 1986 date on it. Not sure if that was when it was last serviced?

I looked everywhere for markings and there is none. Can't find a company name or model number or anything, it's bare. Makes me wonder if its restored, like new cabinet and stuff? The only marking is a little sticker on the coin mech. Doesn't really help, it's like a part number and name. Seems to be for the coin mech.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #13 on:** June 19, 2009, 04:43:09 pm »

Is there any other circuit board in there besides the relay board?
What's the tan colored boxes on the one side?

Oh found this too.......

fayt · « **Reply #14 on:** June 19, 2009, 05:36:33 pm »

Hey cool that is my machine!

Yes that is the only relay board. The box with the hole in it is the sound device thing, and the other one with the two switches is the circuit breaker. Both switches work fine.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #15 on:** June 19, 2009, 07:38:02 pm »

Quote from: fayt on June 19, 2009, 05:36:33 pm

Yes that is the only relay board. The box with the hole in it is the sound device thing, and the other one with the two switches is the circuit breaker. Both switches work fine.

Hmmmm...... would think there should be some sort of logic board in there somewhere.
Even if it was just very simple logic.
It's gotta know a coin was inserted to start, when the claw has drop a prize or not, etc.
I would initially think the relay board merely controlled the claw bridge and claw itself.

fayt · « **Reply #16 on:** June 19, 2009, 08:56:22 pm »

There isn't any sensors for a prize won. It does know when a coin is inserted, it trips the wire to give you gameplay, however its that wire which isn't working.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #17 on:** June 19, 2009, 09:43:22 pm »

So where do the coin wires lead to then?

Certainly can't be just that simple relay board.
There has to be a timer circuit or something to tell the crane the game not only has started but also has to tell it the game is over so to speak.
Which is why I'm expecting to see some other sort of board in there along with the relay board.

You say the one little tan box is sound stuff...... can you pop that open and grab a snapshot of what's in there? (just curious if has does anything else)

Are there ANY cables or anything that look like there should be something else plugged into them?

SirPeale · « **Reply #18 on:** June 19, 2009, 09:50:38 pm »

Older crane machines were ridiculously simple, using a lot of relays to do what they needed to do. But that board looks like it's missing...well, everything.

A buddy of mine works on cranes, I'll give him this page and see if he chimes in.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #19 on:** June 19, 2009, 09:59:13 pm »

Quote from: SirPeale on June 19, 2009, 09:50:38 pm

Older crane machines were ridiculously simple, using a lot of relays to do what they needed to do. But that board looks like it's missing...well, everything.

A buddy of mine works on cranes, I'll give him this page and see if he chimes in.

Yeah, that's kinda what I'm poking at... we're missing something here.
Looking back at the flyer even it talks about....
"Solid State Board"
"Adjustable Timer"
"LED Problem Detector"
"Credit Accumulator"

Need more than relays to do that stuff.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #20 on:** June 19, 2009, 10:06:31 pm »

Also wanted to note that since it's only a two button crane..... one button probably moves it BACK and the other moves it to the RIGHT, therefore there has to be some sort of timer circuit in order to DROP the claw.

fayt · « **Reply #21 on:** June 19, 2009, 10:11:29 pm »

Ok in the morning I will take a picture of the inside of the boxes underneath and also of the crane part. But really that is the only circuit board there is. The owners said it worked fine, I am so stupid, $200 is alot of money for a broken one of these.

Edit: Also there is some buttons on the crane part that stops it, like when the crane moves back into original position (front left) it presses against a button which stops it, and apparently when the crane drops a button is pressed which drags it back up. However without getting it to play, I don't know if it works.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #22 on:** June 19, 2009, 11:24:51 pm »

Quote from: fayt on June 19, 2009, 10:11:29 pm

The owners said it worked fine, I am so stupid, $200 is alot of money for a broken one of these.

We'll do what we can to help, just gotta narrow it down is all.
And even some of us experienced with cranes and such have to learn a little about THAT particular one in order to help further.

Quote from: fayt on June 19, 2009, 10:11:29 pm

Edit: Also there is some buttons on the crane part that stops it, like when the crane moves back into original position (front left) it presses against a button which stops it, and apparently when the crane drops a button is pressed which drags it back up. However without getting it to play, I don't know if it works.

Yes, there should be at least 6 total switches up in the top carriage assembly.
Forward, back, left, right, up, down.... limit switches is what they are.
And they also tell the crane when the carriage is in it's "home" position. (once again why there should be a simple logic board somewhere)

One thing to do is double check that the claw is indeed at it's home position and that the switches are working.
The switch all the way forward and the switch all the way left and the switch when the claw goes all the way up should be tell it that the claw is "home".

I noticed in one of your pictures that the relay board doesn't look quite plugged in all the way, so make sure it's seated in there real good too.

cool_guy · « **Reply #23 on:** June 20, 2009, 12:14:33 am »

I agree completely, there should most definitely be a logic board of some sort in this machine. There should also be something like 5vdc and Ground on each and every microswitch. If the logic board is in fact missing then there will likely be at least no 5vdc and maybe no Ground either. Check the wires and see if 5vdc is present by simply across the two wires on any given switch with a multi-meter or volt-ohm meter and see.
I don't recognize this particular machine personally, the cabinet resembles a Clean-Sweep or an older Betson crane. Unfortunately there are probably a hundred or more different crane boards for this era. Finding the right one if missing would be difficult but if present usually they are easily repaired.
Please let us know what you find w/ the 5vdc.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #24 on:** June 20, 2009, 01:13:29 am »

Quote from: cool_guy on June 20, 2009, 12:14:33 am

Unfortunately there are probably a hundred or more different crane boards for this era. Finding the right one if missing would be difficult but if present usually they are easily repaired.

Exactly..... and this appears to be one of the many "overseas" models.
But like you said, if it's all there it shouldn't be hard to fix.

And if the previous owner says it worked, that's a plus already.
Meaning it should all be there.
(at least you would hope they were honest about)

fayt · « **Reply #25 on:** June 20, 2009, 11:06:04 am »

Here is the pictures of everything in the bottom cabinet. 4 pictures plus 1 more removed that black dial looking cover (which is a screw)

fayt · « **Reply #26 on:** June 20, 2009, 12:54:56 pm »

Almost forgot, here is the pictures of the crane parts.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #27 on:** June 20, 2009, 02:30:42 pm »

Cool... lots of pics.
But still not seeing what we had expected as far as a "logic board" of any kind.

Take the two wires coming from the coin switch and follow them back and show/tell us where they lead to.

fayt · « **Reply #28 on:** June 20, 2009, 04:29:20 pm »

Would you like me to try to do a video of it so you can see everything and trace the wires?

fayt · « **Reply #29 on:** June 20, 2009, 05:04:34 pm »

Alright here is a full video of everything. This should help.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L3S2BMk0Y8[/youtube]

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #30 on:** June 20, 2009, 05:58:16 pm »

Well there's yer problem...... there's some dude hiding in your crane machine.

Seriously gonna have to study this one a bit.

Do those relays unplug like they are in sockets?
If so try re-seating those just for kicks. (unplug and replug them)
And make sure that relay board is good and secure where it plugs in.

fayt · « **Reply #31 on:** June 20, 2009, 06:15:23 pm »

Can you explain what a relay is? This is my very first machine, trying to learn the trade.

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #32 on:** June 20, 2009, 06:58:35 pm »

No problem.....
The clear covered square things are the relays.
Sometime they are plugged into sockets and can just be "unplugged" from the board.
If they don't come loose with just a little effort....then leave them be.
And that's the relay board I was referring to to make sure it's connections were good and tight. (plugged in solid)

fayt · « **Reply #33 on:** June 20, 2009, 07:51:31 pm »

After I wrote that I looked it up and saw them. Cool so I learned something, thank you. Yes when I was fooling with it, I thought those were fuses, so I unplugged them and checked them out and plugged them back in tight. They look sort of brand new.

SirPeale · « **Reply #34 on:** June 20, 2009, 09:02:52 pm »

@ 0:42, the bundle of wires on the left...where do those go?

fayt · « **Reply #35 on:** June 20, 2009, 09:22:28 pm »

Those come down to the 1:09 - 1:11 mark

fayt · « **Reply #36 on:** June 26, 2009, 07:07:42 pm »

I just paid a high price to get this machine fixed, this mexican had to fix like 7 problems with it, and it works, but barely, like every 5 tries it messes up. This sucks.

SirPeale · « **Reply #37 on:** June 26, 2009, 08:02:34 pm »

Great...what did he do?

Kevin Mullins · « **Reply #38 on:** June 26, 2009, 10:51:31 pm »

Yes, I would definitely like to hear what the fella did so far.
Lord knows it sucks to hear when people unfamiliar with stuff like this ends up taking it to someone that may turn around and screw them because they had to "do all this work" to get it running.
(especially if it's still doesn't work 100%)

fayt · « **Reply #39 on:** June 27, 2009, 09:12:25 am »

Well he used a multimeter and tested the wire switch, that was working fine. He then tested both buttons and said was broken. But he fooled around with it and stuck a pin in it and it worked again. The crane part was missing two pieces, he ghetto rigged one so now it kind of works. The other piece is still missing a metal rod that goes above the claw to stable it while it moves.

The strength of the claw can only pick up a paper of paper at most. Most game plays the claw won't close. He said the strengthing switch is broken so it can't be adjusted. (that thing that we thought was sound) need a new dial switch for that.

He also sodered a piece of the circuit board. At least it halfway works, still can't place it in the mall, because a half hour later I am going to get a phone call that it's not working.


Main	Restorations	Software	Audio/Jukebox/MP3	Everything Else	Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements	Monitor/Video	GroovyMAME	Merit/JVL Touchscreen	Meet Up	Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing	Woodworking	Software Support Forums	Consoles	Project Arcade	Reviews
Automated Projects	Artwork	Frontend Support Forums	Pinball	Forum Discussion	Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board	controls.dat	Linux	Miscellaneous Arcade	Wiki Discussion	Old Archives
Lightguns	Arcade1Up	Try the site in https mode		Site News


Unread posts \| New Replies \| Recent posts \| Rules \| Chatroom \| Wiki \| File Repository \| RSS \| Submit news