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7 dead 16 wounded at attack on Dutch queensday.
danny_galaga:
i'm not a big fan of royal families, but in their defence european (including UK) royals generate their own income. it's true they get some money from the public purse, and they hold some public assets, but by and large they aren't a HUGE drain on society. kinda pointless, but not a huge burden. besides, most of them are supreme diplomats (other than prince phillip) which is of some benefit to a country...
shmokes:
Polaris, a lot of that stuff actually resonates with me and got me questioning why I am so offended by the notion of royalty, but not other nonsense that the government pays for (like holidays). For example, shutting down the country for 4th of July or Christmas or President's day has major financial costs for society, but I totally support these things because they make people happy. And, of course they also generate tons of economic activity that probably outweighs the fact that everything is closed for the holiday, but for the sake of argument let's just pretend that they are a net financial drain on society.
I think what it really comes down to is that to me the royals represent just about the most evil thing in society -- it is the overt statement that all men are not created equal. Some are better than others, by birth. And I'm just kind of hard core in this area. I believe that with a few exceptions, a person's entire estate should escheat to the state when he dies. I don't believe in inherited political power, and I feel just as strongly about inherited economic power (in fact I think the two are practically the same thing anyway). So to be honest, while I think that the Royals are an enormous waste of money, and that they don't deserve what they have, it is really the idea they represent that I find so repugnant. And I think that is why I get so antagonistic about it.
But whatev. I'm over it. ;D
edit: pronoun troubles
patrickl:
--- Quote from: shmokes on May 09, 2009, 10:54:15 pm ---Patrick is using the two wrongs make a right argument to establish the rightness of the actions. I said that royalty is wrong because of x, y and z and he responded, "Look, Obama does some of the very same things." That's two wrongs make a right.
--- End quote ---
No I'm not using a two wrongs makes a right. I made two arguments:
1) You whine about a 300K bill for Prince Charles when Bush cost $125 million on a similar (by your definition probably "useless") trip.
2) I ask you to think WHY Obama gets the deluxe life in the hope that you will finally think things through and understand that it serves a purpose.
I guess you could misunderstand the first as a "two wrongs" argument, but it's more my astonishment that you are so appalled about the cost of the royals when they are not that expensive at all.
The second argument has no "two wrongs" element at all. I tried following the argument you had with Chad, but I really don't see how you can claim that I was making a two wrongs argument. Especially when I literally said that I didn't and Chad also pointed this out to you.
BTW being antagonistic about something doesn't mean that you cannot acknowlegde that a it serves a purpose or that it actually works. There is also no need to lie or repeat misinformed opinions. Our Queen works harder than Bush ever did. OK maybe that doesn't say much, but still. You can call her diplomatic, marketing and inspirational work useless, but it's the full time job that she does.
patrickl:
Anyway, yesterday another person died from her injuries. Luckily her 14 year old daughter did survive and was able to leave the hospital. I think the 8 year old girl is out of the hospital too.
Oddly enough the people who died were all reasonably old. The 46 year old leady who died yesterday was the youngest. The others vary in age between 50 and 71 years old.
ChadTower:
--- Quote from: shmokes on May 09, 2009, 10:54:15 pm ---Sigh . . . Chad, you just haven't thought this through.
--- End quote ---
Once again, he assumes that because someone disagrees, it can only be the result of lack of comprehension of his brilliance. It's useless trying to discuss anything with this guy.
Yes, we all know two wrongs do not mathematically equate to a right. ::)
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