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TOK:

--- Quote from: boykster on June 03, 2009, 01:32:08 pm ---
--- Quote from: TOK on June 02, 2009, 07:33:44 am ---Fuel has never been unavailable, I'm not sure where you're pulling that scenario from. Mad Max? If it gets that bad, I won't have a job anyway since I doubt China will be making a plug in 3/4 ton work van.

--- End quote ---

Have you ever taken the time to consider that by transitioning a moderate percentage of passenger vehicles used primarily for commuting to a non-gasoline or diesel based fuel source will EXTEND the timeline that those fuels will be available for consumption by vehicles that NEED it?  You know, for people who require a 3/4 ton work van? 

I'm not a big 'save the planet, ride your bike' kinda guy, but I do see the value is distributing the power usage for transportation away from a 99% fossil fuel use pattern.  Petroleum is a finite resource, and eventually it will be depleted.  Forcing everybody into a D-cell battery powered aluminum can isn't the answer, but neither is claiming that all alternative power sources are a waste of time and that we should all drive our gas guzzling Hummer's until the oil fields run dry. 

Sure, even a moderate shift to electric passenger vehicles will push our power grid - hell in many areas it's already pushed beyond the point of reliability.  Yep, batteries cause their own issues with pollution, but innovation in a renewable resource seems much more logical than ignoring the fact that at some point in the future, the gasoline powered car will be a museum piece.

 :dunno

--- End quote ---

My comments in the thread really started with my utter disgust for Chinese vehicles.

The hybrid thing is kind of a secondary argument, but combining an unproven technology (I'll get to that in a minute) with the Chinese inability to make anything worth keeping is just asking to get screwed.

Here are my thoughts on why hybrids are kind of a joke...

We are just getting to the end of the useful life of first generation hybrid batteries. As they age, they become less efficient, and their replacement cost basically totals the vehicle.

The disposal/recycling of Nickel Metal Hydride and Lithium Ion is the second step (after mining and manufacturing) where hybrids can undo any good they've done.

The more mainstream hybrids get, the less "hybrid" they become. Pick up the newest Car & Driver and read their findings on the all new Prius. It is reported to be able to go a mile or more on battery power alone. Regardless of what Car & Driver did, they were unable to get it go to more than 100 feet without the gas engine kicking in.

As far as plug in electrics go, they may be of some use to people with short commutes who plan well. You still have the decreasing battery efficiency to contend with, the recycling to contend with as well as the additional issue that its your sole source of power. Do you want someone creeping along a single lane 35mph highway at 20mph to make sure they get to where they want to go? What about states like California (hybrid/electric central) that already have rolling brownouts under the stress of their normal residential grid?
Talk about a car being stranded in a garage...

A traditional 4 cylinder gas car like the Honda Civic is able to match a hybrid in efficiency in mixed real world driving. A hybrids real advantage is in the city where it can run on electric. That kind of leads back to the direction the cars are going and the Prius not doing well at running on electric at all.

So yes, I'm looking toward the future. Maybe more than people who think an electric cars benefit to the environment begins and ends with plugging it into the wall.

HaRuMaN:

--- Quote from: TOK on June 03, 2009, 02:44:45 pm ---A traditional 4 cylinder gas car like the Honda Civic is able to match a hybrid in efficiency in mixed real world driving. A hybrids real advantage is in the city where it can run on electric. That kind of leads back to the direction the cars are going and the Prius not doing well at running on electric at all.

--- End quote ---

I average about 38 mpg in my Honda Fit (traditional 4 cyl) about 50/50 highway/city mix.   :)

boykster:

--- Quote from: TOK on June 03, 2009, 02:44:45 pm ---My comments in the thread really started with my utter disgust for Chinese vehicles.

--- End quote ---

No disagreement there, at all. 

I'm not saying that the plug-in hybrid is the holy grail of the next generation of transportation, but you have to consider all of the innovation that comes from even small scale 'mainstream' adoption of these vehicles. 

All that said, I own 2 vehicles - both have gasoline powered V6 engines and neither are very fuel efficient.

 :burgerking:

LLUncoolJ:
When I was 16, I won a car in a radio contest. It was a white, stripped down Chevy (later Geo) Sprint Metro. It was the cheapest car on the lot, but a carless 16 year olds can't be choosey. Anyway, that thing got like 56 mpg. I think it was a 3 banger if I remember right. Granted, it was a stripped down tin can, but nothing is really approaching 56 mpg in 2009...this car was a 1987 model. Is there a rational explanation for that?

It was 22 years ago, so maybe my memories are faulty.

shardian:
The Metro's were indeed 3 cylinder cars. They are almost as easy to work on as a lawnmower engine.

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