That's How I Roll! (Skeeball build)

[Nephasth]

That software is so badass I actually want to convert my Model H into a Free Skee!

[DaOld Man]

I totally agree. This is some serious screaming loud work going on here.

[Le Chuck]

Wow.

This is awesome, there is definetly a skeeball in my future some day and I know where I'll be coming for software and tips for sure     

[Entropy42]

I love the segmented LED font you use for Skricket, can you tell me where you found it or what its called?  I'll have to post an update about my build here soon, glad to see yours is still kicking.

[thatpurplestuff]

I love the segmented LED font you use for Skricket, can you tell me where you found it or what its called?  I'll have to post an update about my build here soon, glad to see yours is still kicking.

Digital 7 Mono is the font used for all of the LED scoreboards... it's a beautiful font and it's fixed-width so you don't have to worry about numbers jumping around as they change.  Can't recommend it enough!

[thatpurplestuff]

So I mentioned earlier that I've been having issues with the mechanical triggers misfiring occasionally, and after looking into the costs of new mechanical switches I decided that I think it's time to bite the bullet and go optical on this hog.  The mechanical switches are accurate for the most part, but every once in a while a ball would go in so quickly or at a weird angle that it would cause the arm on the switch to pop off or misfire.  Also, the abuse that the switches take from the heavy skeeballs hitting them seems to shorten the life of the switch.

A way to prevent this would be to have the mechanical switch triggered after the ball goes in the hole by having it roll into the switch, not hit it directly.  I don't like this idea because I really like seeing the points go up immediately after the ring is hit.  Optical seems like the perfect fit considering it has the potential to be more accurate and will not suffer the physical abuse that the mechanical switches do.  Price is also a big consideration because those mechanical switches aren't cheap and optical prices are very comparable.

Some research online and I saw the following hardware used on another Skeeball machine:

Pololu Carrier with Sharp GP2Y0D805Z0F Digital Distance Sensor 5cm
http://www.pololu.com/product/1132/



Those switches seem like the ideal solution, and buying 10 (8 + 2 extras) at $6.25 each I could outfit the entire machine for ~$63.  It's an expensive upgrade, but moving away from mechanical switches would mean that I'm far less likely to have to be buying new switches in the future.

I have absolutely zero experience with optical switches and am humbly turning to you guys for help.  Would these switches play nice with my LEDwiz?  How difficult would it be to provide power to them and how much power is ideal?  Will the black shiny skeeballs register correctly using an optical switch?  Is there a better alternative that I'm not aware of?

Thanks in advance for any guidance!

[samej71]

I used these IR pairs on a pinewood derby timer to detect when the cars passed the finish line. They worked well, even in bright gyms. I was worried about ambient light interfering, but so far that seems unfounded. I plan on using these for my own skee ball when I start my build. They are only $.70 for each pair.  Shipping/handling would be around $4. Wiring is very basic.

http://robokitsworld.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=222

I used them with an arduino micro, but I suspect they would work equally well with the ledwiz. I used discarded network cable to wire mine all up. Just make sure you use sufficient gauge wire for the IR LEDs, if you intend to connect multiple LEDs to the same run of wire.

[PL1]

The two questions that come to mind are:

1. Are these active low devices? (when the ball is sensed, the encoder input is pulled down to ground)

2. How do you mount/configure the sensors?

The first kind looks like it relies on the IR beam reflecting off the ball.
      IR LED  \ _Ball
Photodiode /

The separate LED/photodiode kind looks like it relies on the ball interrupting the IR LED light.
      IR LED  --- Ball  --- Photodiode

How did you configure your pinewood derby setup, Samej71?


Scott

[samej71]

@PL1, I used them like the second scenario you posted: the "breaking beam" scenario. I had the IR LEDs mounted under track, aiming up, and the IR photodiodes on the top of the track, facing down. When the cars go through the finish line, they break the beam, which is then detected. I think this method would be the best for skeeball too, as long as the balls are not clear or translucent.

For my skee, I planned on leaving the photodiode recessed in a 5mm hole to (superstitiously) help eliminate ambient light, but this is probably unnecessary, since this IR pair is filtered and it will generally not be seeing a whole lot of ambient IR light unless the machine is outside or by a window.

The photodiodes work on reverse bias.  The spec sheet is here for the details:

http://www.robokits.co.in/datasheets/BPV10nf.pdf

Here is a short but excellent explanation, including sample circuits, of how use photodiodes: http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/33659/how-do-i-connect-a-photodiode

The arduino had internal pull up resisters I could turn on for the input. If the LEDWiz doesn't have that, you will want to include those in your circuit to overcome pin capacitance,  which is negligible.

--James

[thomas_surles]

I have an idea for a game.
"Horse"
Just like the basket ball game, it is multi player.
One person takes a shot and the next player (s) have
To match the shot or receive a letter.

[thatpurplestuff]

thomas- Check out the end of the video I posted at the end of page 7.  Already got "Horskee" up and running haha

PL1 & samej71- Thanks for the info guys.  I'm definitely going to have to do some more research regarding these setups to see which one I want to go with.  My initial instinct is to want to go with the sensors that would reflect the beam off the ball as opposed to the sensors that would require a beam to be broken, only because like I said earlier occasionally the balls go in at odd angles that have bypassed the mechanical triggers altogether.  This probably wouldn't be an issue as long as the sensors were completely centered, but it seems like the reflective setup would be a bit more forgiving in terms of detecting scores and ambient light would be less of an issue (that's if I understand things correctly).

Just thought of another question... anyone know if the RGB LED's that currently light the holes will interfere with either setup?

[samej71]

I don't think RGB LEDs will interfere with any IR setup. LEDs in general emit narrow frequencies of light. So green component of an RGB led emits a narrow bandwidth of green (500-570nm) wavelength light, and same for the blue (450-500nm) and red (610-760nm) components. As such, they should not be emitting any IR (>760nm) light, unlike traditional bulbs and sunlight which are broad spectrum and usually include IR wavelengths.

I haven't compared the diameter of the balls you're using to the size of the holes in the backboard, but I would venture a guess there is no way you'd be able to get a ball in without breaking the beam. With a rotary mechanical switch, you have to rotate the lever a minimum distance before the switch actuates, which would not apply to either IR scenario. 

The pair I used is sensitive enough that my timer was able to distinguish between 3 thousandths of a second in one particular race, and some cars are much narrower in width (.75") than the balls and the receiver and transmitter were much further apart (around a foot) than they will be in a skee ball configuration. I don't see how it would fail to break the beam even if they were nowhere close to center as long as the ball is opaque. On a side note, the pair could be used in a reflective scenario, and instead of looking for the beam to break (IR light disappears) to detect a ball, you'd look for the IR light to appear (reflected) to detect a ball. I have not used them in this manner, so I can't speak to how well they would work, but in theory it is possible.

However, you need to choose whatever you're comfortable with. If the component you posted in your previous message is what you feel comfortable using, then that is what you should use (as long as you feel they will work with the LEDWiz).

One thing you do need to consider for a reflective scenario is how it will work with shiny (like polished plastic) vs flat (like unfinished wood) surfaces. Hopefully, that won't impact performance at all and you'll be good regardless of what types of balls you may use now or in the future.

No matter what IR solution you choose, good luck.

--James

[PL1]

My initial instinct is to want to go with the sensors that would reflect the beam off the ball as opposed to the sensors that would require a beam to be broken, only because like I said earlier occasionally the balls go in at odd angles that have bypassed the mechanical triggers altogether.  This probably wouldn't be an issue as long as the sensors were completely centered, but it seems like the reflective setup would be a bit more forgiving in terms of detecting scores and ambient light would be less of an issue (that's if I understand things correctly).

Ambient light is not a problem due to the built in light filter (870 nm to 890 nm) that only allows the light from the IR LED  (870 nm) to pass.

Mount the IR LED at 3 o'clock and the sensor at 9 o'clock of the hole and as close to the board as possible.

The extra mounting height of the switch and amount of lever arm travel required to trigger the switch may allow room for a ball to slip through.

Beam break is a better configuration than reflection for several reasons:

1. Works with reflective and non-reflective balls.

2. Angle of reflection = twice the angle of incidence.

The first thing that this causes is a shorter reflective trigger signal because the round ball will successfully reflect the IR within a shorter time frame than the beam break.

If the ball is moved out of the plane that the IR LED and photodiode are in, the amount of reflected IR is even less/shorter time.

anyone know if the RGB LED's that currently light the holes will interfere with either setup?

Unless you aim the RGB LED straight at the IR LED/sensor, it won't see enough light in the 870-890 nm range to make a difference.

With the RGB LED pointed up at the rings and the IR LED/photodiode pointed horizontally, you won't have any trouble -- especially if you can keep the RGB out of the view angle of the sensor.


Scott

[PL1]

So I mentioned earlier that I've been having issues with the mechanical triggers misfiring occasionally, and after looking into the costs of new mechanical switches I decided that I think it's time to bite the bullet and go optical on this hog.  The mechanical switches are accurate for the most part, but every once in a while a ball would go in so quickly or at a weird angle that it would cause the arm on the switch to pop off or misfire.  Also, the abuse that the switches take from the heavy skeeballs hitting them seems to shorten the life of the switch.

A way to prevent this would be to have the mechanical switch triggered after the ball goes in the hole by having it roll into the switch, not hit it directly.  I don't like this idea because I really like seeing the points go up immediately after the ring is hit.  Optical seems like the perfect fit considering it has the potential to be more accurate and will not suffer the physical abuse that the mechanical switches do.  Price is also a big consideration because those mechanical switches aren't cheap and optical prices are very comparable.

Have you considered the $1.85 Suzo-Happ 1351 switches here?



They are Zippy P/N CNR-05-S-03-Z. (datasheet here)

They can take repeated, hard, follow-thru swings with a 2-foot-long 1" x 4", even strikes that are >80 degrees from the normal path of the arm, and the arm has never popped off in my testing.   

The ONLY potential downside I've found while torture testing these switches is that when you hit them really hard, you need a longer debounce setting because the arm bounces like a diving board -- a solid whack yields 2-6 keystrokes using one of the default KADE firmwares, depending on the angle.   


Scott

[jongunz]

Amazing build.  Now I understand why commercial skee-ball machines are so expensive.  Your different games are awesome as well.

[thomas_surles]

thomas- Check out the end of the video I posted at the end of page 7.  Already got "Horskee" up and running haha

PL1 & samej71- Thanks for the info guys.  I'm definitely going to have to do some more research regarding these setups to see which one I want to go with.  My initial instinct is to want to go with the sensors that would reflect the beam off the ball as opposed to the sensors that would require a beam to be broken, only because like I said earlier occasionally the balls go in at odd angles that have bypassed the mechanical triggers altogether.  This probably wouldn't be an issue as long as the sensors were completely centered, but it seems like the reflective setup would be a bit more forgiving in terms of detecting scores and ambient light would be less of an issue (that's if I understand things correctly).

Just thought of another question... anyone know if the RGB LED's that currently light the holes will interfere with either setup?

Sorry must have missed that one

[thatpurplestuff]

Welp, I need to learn to trust you guys.  I ended up buying Sharp digital distance sensors to test (I really liked the idea of all-in-one sensors with built-in resistors) but they don't work at all for my setup.  It was a bummer too since I wired one sensor up and it appeared to trigger flawlessly until I tried using it with my actual Skeeballs.  The old plain wood balls trigger it perfectly, you can trigger it by hand perfectly, pretty much anything and everything BUT my Skeeballs trigger the damn thing 100% of the time.  The shiny black Skeeballs are basically invisible to this darn thing.

So anyway, I'm an idiot and definitely should have listened to you guys (specifically samej71 and PL1) and gone with the broken beam setup.  To correct my lapse in judgment I was going to pick up 10 of these IR LED/photodiode pairs (http://robokitsworld.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11&products_id=222) but I'm a bit confused as to what kind of resistors I would need to get 8 sensor pairs working via the 5v on a GPWiz.  Keep in mind I have pretty much only wired arcade buttons so my knowledge of electronics is very basic.

Thanks in advance for any advice... I promise I'll listen this time haha!

[PL1]

First step, let's sort out the IR LED emitter part of the circuit.

***Disclaimer - Hopefully DaOld Man or one of our other resident electrical-engineering-types can confirm or deny if the following is correct.***

If I'm reading the datasheet for the IR LEDs right, they draw 100mA @ 1.5v and you plan on using a 5v power supply and 8 LEDs.

Plugging those values into this LED series/parallel array wizard gives 2 answers -- the second one is posted below.


Scott

[thatpurplestuff]

Thanks Scott I sincerely appreciate how helpful you always are on here.

That diagram sorta makes sense for me, although I'm still wrapping my brain around using 4 resistors for the 8 leds.

I tried messing with that wizard for the photodiode circuit... I think it's 5v source/1 diode forward voltage/8 leds in array, but I'm unsure what to put in for diode forward current.  For that value I grabbed a couple of the numbers: reverse dark current (1nA) and reverse light current (55-60μA) and tried converting the numbers to mA... 60 μA converted to .06 mA... 1 nA converted to 0.000001 mA.

Those numbers seem weird and give me some crazy resistor numbers.... I feel like I'm doing this completely wrong haha.

[PL1]

The Light Emitting Diode calculator I linked won't work for the photodiode receiver, just the IR LED transmitters.

Look on the LED datasheet second page, first entry -- "forward voltage" is the spec that sounds the closest to what the calculator is asking for and is consistent with typical LED voltages.

The values I plugged in were:
  * Source voltage = 5
  * diode forward voltage = 1.5
  * diode forward current (mA) = 100
  * number of LEDs in your array = 8

The reason you can use 2 or 3 LEDs in series is that each LED drops part of the voltage and the resistor drops the rest.

To put it in plumbing terms:
  * Voltage is comparable to water pressure
  * Amperage is comparable to the amount of water flowing through per second
  * The LEDs and resistor are like water wheels
  * If the water pressure is too high, too much water will flow through causing the water wheel to spin too fast and fail
  * After the water flows over one water wheel, it will flow through the next one in series

The 100 mA flowing through each LED uses 1.5v from the original 5v.

The first LED output voltage is 3.5v.

The second LED output voltage is 2v.

The resistor changes the last 2v to heat, same as any resistor does.

If you added a third LED between the second one and the resistor, the resistor would only have .5v to turn to heat.

That's why the first solution uses a smaller resistor on the series with 3 LEDs.


Scott

EDIT: D'oh!  Just realized that you were trying to use the calculator for the photodiode part of the circuit -- the post still works for explaining 4 (or 3  ) resistors for 8 LEDs, though.

[Entropy42]

There's a good article about connecting something like this to an Arduino, which is not the same as your GPWiz, but still relevant.
http://www.me.umn.edu/courses/me2011/arduino/technotes/irbeam/irbeam.html

Also relevant is http://electrapk.com/phototransistor/, section on Phototransistor Applications—Dark Activated Relay

The Arduino can read its input pins and convert the 0-5V value to a digital 0 or 1.  The GPWiz is not looking for 5V on each of its pins.  If you measure them, they have 5V on them.  It seems to just be looking for current on each pin when a simple switch (button) is closed, and its not expecting any load (impedance) on those pins beyond the very small resistance of the wires themselves.  The GPWiz isn't designed to drive any sort of load (not sure how much current it can put out, but certainly not more than 500 mA), but this thread (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=13386.0) says that its ok to use an optical switch (like for a spinner wheel) in place of a normal mechanical switch.  The downside to this is that in a beam-break configuration (like you will use), the GPWiz is going to see the button "pressed down" all the time *except* when the ball passes through, so the opposite of what you have with the mechanical switches.  You might be able to just put an inverter in your circuit.  Here's a decent post about inverters:
http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/30238/how-to-invert-a-digital-signal
They make multi-pin inverters, so you might be able to invert all 8 of your lines with only one microchip.  2 of these would do the trick (http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/74HC_HCT04.pdf).

On my machine, I use mechanical switches and just filter any switch bounces in software.  I've considered going optical (moreso after finding some cheap options in this thread), but I don't really have a problem with fake keypresses.  I make sure none of my switch wires are touching the board (otherwise a hard impact on the target area will actually trigger that switch), and I just timestamp each key-press on the way in.  If its the same switch & too close to the previous time a ball was scored (< 400 ms), I assume it was a switch bounce and throw it away.  C# also has an IsRepeat function that filters out subsequent presses if a key is held down, in case a ball spirals through the hole or something.

[PL1]

Also relevant is http://electrapk.com/phototransistor/, section on Phototransistor Applications—Dark Activated Relay

FIFY -- extra comma at end of URL.   


Scott

[thatpurplestuff]

First off, please don't take my very slow responses as a lack of interest or a lack of appreciation for all of the great help that you guys have been offering.  I had some stuff pop up in my personal life that has had me preoccupied as of late, but all of that is (hopefully) behind me now and I'm ready to tackle this project.

I received the IR leds / photodiodes in the mail the other day (I actually bought 20 of each just cause I have no idea what I'm doing and figure I'll probably be popping more than my fair share of each.

One thing that I've considered doing is making all-in-one ring "slip on" parts that have the sensor setup and RGB led in one, fitting them over each hole, and then just connecting each ring in a chain via one big harness.  I really like the idea of being able to pull an entire ring off if there are ever any issues and being able to just repair/replace it and plug it back in.



I think doing this would require me to have each IR LED have its own resistor (and if I've entered the info correctly into the LED calculator, I think the resistors would need to be 1W or greater 39 ohm).  Then again, now that I'm reading all of this stuff about inverters and stuff I might be overcomplicating something that is already confusing to me haha.  It may just be a better idea to make this as fullproof and simple as possible instead of trying to get crazy with individual rings, etc.

I definitely have a lot of reading to do (starting at really learning how to read circuit diagrams... I have a very basic understanding but I get lost trying to understand anything but the most basic circuits).  The one thing that has been nice to hear is that the LEDwiz might be able to receive the optical signals... I was dreading having to convert to digital signals along with all of the other wiring.

Anyway, like always I sincerely appreciate any and all input on this.  Like I said I've got a lot of reading to do so I have no idea how long this is going to take.  Thanks everyone!

[PL1]

The idea of a removable ring for the sensor sounds good, but wiring each IR LED with only one LED and a resistor between 5v and ground is very inefficient.

Given the different sizes of scoring rings, you may want to separate the RGB LED (red) from the sensor circuit (yellow and green) and place it recessed at an angle pointed where it will light up the numbers. (black)


Scott

[Entropy42]

I'm pretty sure he has his LEDs on the underside of the board, angled up through the hole to light up the numbers, so the holes are actually all identical in terms of lighting the number.  That's how mine are done at least, and it works fine.  If the LEDS are imbedded in the board (as I'm interpreting your diagram), they have to be at a very low angle. 

I think the rings would work, but I'm also not sure if there's much value in streamlining it for one-of machine.  I have 2 that I'm computerizing, and its still rarely worth making a standard swappable part.  Working on the back of the board directly can be a pain in the ass too, so maybe just fabricating 7 rings on your workbench and slapping them in is a win for only 1 machine. 

Also, just to clarify, a KeyWiz/GPWiz might be able to read the optical switches.  The LEDWiz is only a controller.

[thatpurplestuff]

PL1- Like Entropy42 said, the LEDs are currently underneath the board (actually kinda inside of it on the inside lip of each hole) and the difference in distance is surprisingly pretty negligible for each hole.  I'm actually really happy with the light dispersal as it currently is, so I'd want to emulate it as close as I could with the ring idea.

One of the main reasons for the idea to make the ring components all-in-one was to create a template for others to follow in the future... for my specific machine it's really not the most ideal solution since I've already installed the RGB leds and the underside of the scoring area is already optimized for my software.

What really got me thinking about this all-in-one setup was the large number of emails I've received from people asking how they could use my software on their Skeeball machines.  Right now, converting a standard Skeeball machine to work with my software would be a pretty large PITA because of the method that Skeeball machines score (ie each 100 ring is worth 50 and each ring 10-50 is worth 10 and the balls hit each switch as they roll down).  Stock machines have no way of knowing which hole was actually triggered without a complete overhaul of the guts beneath the scoring area... in theory with these ring components a person could literally just remove the mechanical switches from their current machine, fit the ring components in underneath each hole and then leave the rest of the scoring area exactly the same.  It seems like it would save people a lot of work in regards to re-configuring the ball return, reconfiguring switches, lighting up holes, etc.

Entropy42- Yeah thanks for the clarification on the LEDwiz... I meant GPWiz just had a brainfart haha.

[samej71]

The idea of a removable ring for the sensor sounds good, but wiring each IR LED with only one LED and a resistor between 5v and ground is very inefficient.

Just a quick note: Using a harness does not mean each IR LED must be wired independently with its own resistor; they still can be daisy chained as you described in an earlier post when designing the harness. To me--and I may be projecting my own interpretation here--the harness idea simply means a quick disconnect for the components in the ring from the wiring bundle. The wiring can still go from hole-to-hole as needed for chaining before leading back to the main connection points.

I would have chimed in earlier but things have been very busy and you guys already provided excellent responses.

--James

[thatpurplestuff]

samej71- yeah that seems like it might be a more reasonable solution than my idea haha.

I think I need to pick up a breadboard or something and actually start plugging stuff in and playing with it, because right now just trying to wrap my head around all of this stuff is seeming to get more and more confusing.

Figured since all I've been posting about recently has been technical questions, it couldn't hurt to post a pic of the current iteration of the marquee area (the space where Infection is located is the screen).  Going to add some halftone patterns on the people, but otherwise I think I'm calling it done.  Then I just have to repaint my speaker grills back to black since I made them yellow and that part of the machine should be done!

[samej71]

Randy, the marquee looks very nice.

On a side note, I'm waiting to start my own personal Skee until the first release of your software. Since I'm not a graphic designer, I'm not able to create anything as nice as what you've set up, and you've raised the bar high enough that I don't want to bother building a machine unless it has those games . I wish it wouldn't require a Windows license, but I don't see an easy way around that at the moment--last I checked, admittedly awhile ago, GPWiz doesn't have a linux driver. I've thought about using an Arduino instead of the GPWiz, since it can be programmed register keypresses on Linux when certain events fire. I'd have to scan through old messages in this thread to see how you're controlling the LEDs and see what I'd have to do to emulate the RGB control. I'd like to avoid that extra work, though. Are you using both a GPWiz (for inputs) and an LEDWiz (to control the ring and ramp lights)?

Here are a few thoughts to consider that may make your harness idea easier:
- use old phone line (4 conductor) or cheap cat5 network (8 conductor) wire, it'll make all the wires much easier to manage since they'll already be in small bundles
- for a common ground or common power shared with many components, I'd recommend a heavier gauge wire than phone/network wire. Doorbell wire is usually pretty cheap and found at your local hardware store(s)
- I'd recommend using female connectors like these for your quick connecting/disconnecting harness: http://hansenhobbies.com/products/connectors/pt1inconnectors/

I used these connectors in previous projects and the hole spacing matched my IR and normal LED/photodiode legs perfectly. I made a jig to help me make my connectors by putting a clipped off LED leg scrap into a vise horizontal to the ground, sliding the female terminal on, and then it holds the terminal steady while I put the wire in place and crimp it. I daisy chained some of my LEDs in my project and while it was a little tricky, I could get two network wires crimped in a single female terminal, allowing me to chain to the next LED's terminal. After making the pair (or 4, if it works with your RGB LEDs) I then put the terminals into a 1x2 or 1x4 housing. After that, I did a test fitting by sliding it onto the legs of a LED and then trimmed the legs until the connector fit snugly and little to no bare leg was visible. If you opt to use these, too, make sure you buy plenty of extras. I had a few bad crimps and needed to redo some of them. You'll want to use a labeler, marker, nail polish, tape, or something to mark polarity on the LED/photodiodes and the connector or the wires leading into the connector to make your life easier down the road when connecting/reconnecting the harness to the rings, especially if the lighting is poor.

I haven't found a cheaper source for these connectors yet, but Hansen's prices are pretty reasonable. If anyone knows of a cheaper vendor, please pass it along.

After you get all the wire runs appropriately sized and test-fitted into your cabinet, you can zip-tie them together to make the bundle/harness, which will also make it easier to secure to the cabinet. If you make a note of the length of each run, it would be pretty easy for others to duplicate the harness.

If you'd like help figuring out the wiring diagram, including setting up an inverter (has anyone verified with RandyT if the GPWiz can only register button presses when current is present (how a normal momentary-closed button works) or if it can be configured to register a button press when current stops?), I'm sure the collective of us can help.

[Entropy42]

I only found that one thread that referenced using the KeyWiz with optical switches, and I really don't understand how the KeyWiz works, so I just sort of inferred that it looks for current on each channel. First time I wired mine up, I assumed each channel was going to be looking for 5V (really wish it worked this way), and so I wired the 5V output of the Keywiz to the switches, and then back to each terminal. 

I also wired my LEDs the by making little plug in harnesses similar to those from Hansen, it paid off in a big way for me when I switched from clear to diffuse LEDs and didn't have to redo any soldering.

If you are looking to use his software though, you will need to use a GPWiz and an LEDWiz unless you can modify the source code, because the software will be looking for that hardware.  You might be able to replace the GPWiz with something else that can send keypresses, but the LEDWiz is going to be pretty integrated.

[thatpurplestuff]

samej71- Yup Entropy42 is right about the LEDwiz being required to light the rings... mainly because I used AS2 to write the game, and the only way I could figure to interface with the LEDwiz was with the clipboard.  It works great but ideally it would have been better to use Randy's OCX controls.  In terms of inputs, the software is only looking for keyboard inputs so as long as you are using something that can provide those it's all gravy.

One thing I had been holding off on mentioning to avoid getting people too antsy is that last month I decided to stop adding new game modes and work on making the software have the potential to work on machines other than my own.  I FINALLY went through all of the code and made it so the ring/button inputs can now be changed by modifying values in a text file, so configuring the game to work with different keyboard encoders should be a breeze.  That same text file also contains variables for debounce delays, so anyone wanting to use mechanical switches can change the delay for both the rings and the gutter.  I also took a ridiculously long time to make it so the game list is configurable (at least in regards to the order in which the games are listed... you can't remove games but it allows you to change the order however you like by reordering them within a text file).  Every game mode has its own hi score text file and rules text file, both of which can obviously be modified to reflect new hi scores and any changes to rule descriptions that you might want to do.

Really the only thing that I absolutely must do before I release a beta version is to make it so it works on 16:9 screens.  It is written to work on 4:3 screens right now, so when you load it on a 16:9 screen it has ugly black bars on either side.  My short term solution to this is just use the curtains that open and close between games to cover the extra screen space... at some point I may go back and actually modify the graphics for each game but that would be way down the line and this solution at least makes for a visually appealing solution in the meantime (see below).  Also a quick warning: the software is a bit low res as well (800x600) so it won't appear super crisp on larger, higher res monitors.



Final game list for the first version (17 total): Free Skee, Classic, Old Skool, Flash Point, Wack A Hole, Bowling, Skeel of Forties, Cliffhanger, High Skees, Carnival, Stack 'Em, 310, Skricket, Splatskee! (see below, inspired from Nephasth's suggestion), Infection, Skee Spree, Horskee



So yeah, hadn't been planning on releasing that information for a bit but I figured what the hell haha.  I know it's been a long time coming, but the software is finally getting to a place that it's ready for public consumption... once I get my Skeeball machine back up and running I'll probably do a week or two of testing and then hopefully get a beta out there.  I literally haven't even played some of these new games that I've added yet.

Just realized this is a very long post... will make a new post in a few minutes regarding the sensors.

[thatpurplestuff]

You have no idea how excited I am to hear that tip about those connectors... With the last sensors I tried, I purchased a bunch of both 2 and 3 pin connectors like the ones you are describing and actually made a bunch of 3 pin cables thinking that I would be using them to connect all 8 sensors.  One of the main inspirations for creating a harness was to get use out of the connectors I bought and get to play with the new crimping tool haha.  I'm stoked to find out that the LED/photodiode legs fit inside perfectly!  I never thought of trying that but I did a quick test fit during my lunch break, as well as took pictures of the custom cables that I made for the other sensors that will never see the light of a Skeeball machine haha


test fit


doomed cables

In regards to helping me figure out a wiring diagram with inverters and whatever, you have no idea how much I would appreciate that.  I have been slogging through a bunch of reading on the subject, but something just isn't clicking so far.  Any help to speed up the process would be awesome because right now I feel like a chimpanzee trying to do long division!

[PL1]

PL1- Like Entropy42 said, the LEDs are currently underneath the board (actually kinda inside of it on the inside lip of each hole) and the difference in distance is surprisingly pretty negligible for each hole.  I'm actually really happy with the light dispersal as it currently is, so I'd want to emulate it as close as I could with the ring idea.

That makes sense after double-checking the distances and angles.


Scott

[Entropy42]

doomed cables

If the wire lengths are reasonable, you could just use these for the optical switches and only use 2 of the 3 wires.  Better than redoing them.

[thatpurplestuff]

Here are a couple of 2-pin cables that I recreated really quick last night by salvaging a couple of 3-pin cables.  Glad that I *hopefully* won't have to do a lot of re-crimping since that was definitely the hardest part of making the cables initially!

[bukman009]

I had been following your progress for quite some time (lurking silently). I had convinced myself to build one from scratch after retiring from the military, finally having time now to work on hobbies. I have just acquired a long-neglected skee ball game for just under a $100, so I don't have to go through the trial and error portion of getting my dimensions just right.  There is a little bit of cosmetic work to do but it is totally missing the electronic guts. I am not a puritan, so keeping it all original is not a problem and I love your screen shots for your interface. I have yet to come across any postings with a your software available. I apologize if you have already covered this topic before. I lack the experience (and artistic ability) to program, code, and create it myself so I am hoping for a release someday. Keep up the great work and thanks for the inspiration.

[thomas_surles]

If you ever need new skee balls I jear chuck e cheese has them for just 1 token. Just bring a lady with a large purse

[thatpurplestuff]

bukman009- The software is pretty much ready to release, I just need to test out the new game modes on my machine and configure the LEDs for the games that were added.  I have literally added multiple game modes that I haven't even played yet.  Unfortunately the machine is in pieces right now since I am in the process of trying to figure out the circuit required to wire up all 8 optical beam break sensors, so I won't be doing any testing until the machine is back up and running.

thomas_surles- the bitter irony is that I think normal skeeballs would have worked fine using the sensors that I initially bought, but I splurged and bought the new-old-stock shiny black ones which are making me go with a different sensor setup.  I wouldn't change it though because the black skeeballs really do look nice haha

[PL1]

I am in the process of trying to figure out the circuit required to wire up all 8 optical beam break sensors

Did you ever figure out the circuit?


Scott

[thatpurplestuff]

I am in the process of trying to figure out the circuit required to wire up all 8 optical beam break sensors

Did you ever figure out the circuit?


Scott

Thanks for the followup Scott!

Unfortunately no, I've really hit a proverbial brick wall in regards to this circuit and I've been so busy with work and our new baby that trying to figure it out in my spare time has just not been happening.  I think I understand the basics of getting the LEDs wired up, but getting the photodiodes going is just something I can't seem to wrap my brain around (specifically how to wire them up so that they don't send a trigger until the light beam is broken rather than just always being triggered because of the LED always being lit).

I was actually thinking about making a new post about the circuits in the main forum or something asking for help, because I seem to have lost all my steam otherwise haha.