| Main > Main Forum |
| Does Mame Take Use of Graphics Card |
| << < (3/5) > >> |
| u_rebelscum:
--- Quote from: uprightbass360 on March 17, 2009, 05:43:08 am ---There are always other emulators that run games so much better faster than mame. --- End quote --- FTFY. Faster might mean "better" for some people, but for me and others, it's not. --- Quote from: SavannahLion on March 17, 2009, 03:01:59 am --- --- Quote from: Blanka on March 17, 2009, 02:38:34 am ---Is there already support for Lindbergh or Naomi games? Those systems use OpenGL and GPU's (Geforce 6600 in one system for example) on a linux kernel. Those OpenGL calls could be transferred to GPU's directly I guess. --- End quote --- ...From what I can tell. Our savior won't be 4GHz CPU's but when MAMEDev starts optimizing for multiple CPU architectures. --- End quote --- Sigh.... A. Have you benchmarked comparing video and "-video none"? Less than 5% difference, average. As high as 8.5% with propcycle, sure, but only 1.1% with tekken 3. Using video cards is NOT the save all speed up people think it is. B. Have you looked at video card comparison reviews? Ones that compared image quality as well as benchmark speeds? Different cards render different images from the same OpenGL or DirectX commands. This goes against mame's "reproduce that game as faithfully as possible" goal (quote from the front page of the official mamedev site). C. Even if mame went this way, it still would need to support systems that only have on-board video, or a different OS, or D, ... Ahh, never mind. If the above three don't get the point across, I'll just be :banghead: some more. (I'll into techs for people who are actually interested; Lindbergh might be easy to emulate fast in a stand alone translator with only a few stuff emulated on the exact correct hardware, but wrong hardware and you're out of luck, for example.) Just wait a couple years, and the PC hardware will be able to run it. |
| BASS!:
--- Quote from: u_rebelscum on March 17, 2009, 03:21:01 pm --- --- Quote from: uprightbass360 on March 17, 2009, 05:43:08 am ---There are always other emulators that run games so much better faster than mame. --- End quote --- FTFY. Faster might mean "better" for some people, but for me and others, it's not. --- Quote from: SavannahLion on March 17, 2009, 03:01:59 am --- --- Quote from: Blanka on March 17, 2009, 02:38:34 am ---Is there already support for Lindbergh or Naomi games? Those systems use OpenGL and GPU's (Geforce 6600 in one system for example) on a linux kernel. Those OpenGL calls could be transferred to GPU's directly I guess. --- End quote --- ...From what I can tell. Our savior won't be 4GHz CPU's but when MAMEDev starts optimizing for multiple CPU architectures. --- End quote --- Sigh.... A. Have you benchmarked comparing video and "-video none"? Less than 5% difference, average. As high as 8.5% with propcycle, sure, but only 1.1% with tekken 3. Using video cards is NOT the save all speed up people think it is. B. Have you looked at video card comparison reviews? Ones that compared image quality as well as benchmark speeds? Different cards render different images from the same OpenGL or DirectX commands. This goes against mame's "reproduce that game as faithfully as possible" goal (quote from the front page of the official mamedev site). C. Even if mame went this way, it still would need to support systems that only have on-board video, or a different OS, or D, ... Ahh, never mind. If the above three don't get the point across, I'll just be :banghead: some more. (I'll into techs for people who are actually interested; Lindbergh might be easy to emulate fast in a stand alone translator with only a few stuff emulated on the exact correct hardware, but wrong hardware and you're out of luck, for example.) Just wait a couple years, and the PC hardware will be able to run it. --- End quote --- Better is a subjective term. For me I like being able to play tekken on a 2ghz athlon from 1999 perfectly. I do on the other hand like that mame archives all of the actual code and hardware of the machine, so that one day many moons from now if something were to happen to all of the machines, we could bring it back. On the other hand, there is the mamedev crowd that is wanting to preserve all of the aspects of the machines themself, and others that just want to enjoy the game. My answer to all that protest 3rd party emulators is if it can be done more streamlined, why not do it. Why not just have 3d rendering report to a renderer like in many emulators (Nulldc for one), so that 3d information can then be passed to the gpu. If you are to separate the two from themselves then you can then support other people to find ways of better emulation of the graphics themselves. If setting for a specific game were not properly supported by the renderer then simply setting it back to software is always an option. It just would make so much sense to put more stress on the gfx card when processing the game, when you can get enormous cards for next to nothing now a days. I do apologize that what I have just said has been said a thousand times before, and is as equally non technical as many others. I also understand that by using the graphics cards is not as authentic, but I just wish that there were a more simple way that someone could figure out how to just pass rudimentary 3d information to the graphics cards, other than just scaling, and a few others. I don't necessarily just want all games right now to just run fast, I just think that it would allow programmers more wiggle room because they could implement more into a romset than they would have before. |
| TheShanMan:
If there are other emulators (as you stated) that do this kind of stuff then what would be the motivation to stray from the longstanding goal of the project? I'd rather see them continue down the road of adding laser disc games than stray from the goal. |
| VicBond007:
--- Quote from: uprightbass360 on March 18, 2009, 04:20:13 pm --- Better is a subjective term. For me I like being able to play tekken on a 2ghz athlon from 1999 perfectly. I do on the other hand like that mame archives all of the actual code and hardware of the machine, so that one day many moons from now if something were to happen to all of the machines, we could bring it back. On the other hand, there is the mamedev crowd that is wanting to preserve all of the aspects of the machines themself, and others that just want to enjoy the game. My answer to all that protest 3rd party emulators is if it can be done more streamlined, why not do it. Why not just have 3d rendering report to a renderer like in many emulators (Nulldc for one), so that 3d information can then be passed to the gpu. If you are to separate the two from themselves then you can then support other people to find ways of better emulation of the graphics themselves. If setting for a specific game were not properly supported by the renderer then simply setting it back to software is always an option. It just would make so much sense to put more stress on the gfx card when processing the game, when you can get enormous cards for next to nothing now a days. I do apologize that what I have just said has been said a thousand times before, and is as equally non technical as many others. I also understand that by using the graphics cards is not as authentic, but I just wish that there were a more simple way that someone could figure out how to just pass rudimentary 3d information to the graphics cards, other than just scaling, and a few others. I don't necessarily just want all games right now to just run fast, I just think that it would allow programmers more wiggle room because they could implement more into a romset than they would have before. --- End quote --- If you just want to enjoy the game then you could always walk up to your original cabinet and play it. You DO own the original, right? MAME, though inefficient by design, is an archive of arcade machines. If some machine ceased to exist and it was properly emulated in MAME, you could go back and see just how said game looked/played, regardless of what performance hacks nvidia crammed into their latest drivers, which chipset software you installed for your board, and whether you set your audio mode on your SoundBlaster Audigy Over 9000 to game mode instead of movie mode. The point of MAME is to bypass everything possible so that now, or 10 years from now, as long as a supported OS still exists, you can still experience the arcade game exactly as it was in the original machine, with all of the proper texture alignment, lighting effects, etc. Offloading 3d rendering to the video card would be impossible while adhering to these respectable standards. even the simplest operations vary by card. How would you feel picking up an "old" arcade machine and saying "It didn't look like that in MAME...". You'd be disappointed because MAME did not faithfully reproduce the original game. Case in point: Around the time of the GeForce FX series, sites started reporting that the FX5xxx series cards were rendering textures oddly. It turned out that NVidia, in a desperate bid to play games FASTER sacrificed image quality dramatically. One feature, anisotropic filter, which affects the clarity of textures viewed at an angle (such as the floor of the 3d level fading off into the distance) was "tweaked" to render these textures with less detail than other cards. The flaw could not be fixed at the driver level, and could not be fixed in any game, since the game sends the same Direct3D requests to every card, regardless of manufacturer. The card itself handled the scene worse, but rendered it faster. Needless to say the product line tanked. |
| SavannahLion:
NVM just delete. |
| Navigation |
| Message Index |
| Next page |
| Previous page |