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Household Electricity Consumption
richms:
Its the low level stuff like standby that they fail on. I have a computer that mine says takes more when turned off then turned on - I think its just that the standby 5v psu is rather a bad power factor - it wont turn a metal disc meter when off, but will when on so thats enough to tell me that its not really taking more when off - yet the plug in meter thinks its about 30something watts when off, and about the same when on (no drives in it, its running off a CF card) - if there was really 30 watts going into it, thenit would get pretty warm since there is no fan running when off.
Kevin Mullins:
Very interesting.... I'll try to do some extensive testing and comparisons when we receive this little meter. We generally have a couple of any one type of appliance I can use to compare around here.
Gonna try and verify through the manufacturer on my well pump where they got their kilowatt usage data from. I'm starting to wonder if maybe it's from an non-loaded motor or something. (of course I'd have to pull mine to check that out of the water) Guess it's still baffling me how a motor rated at 0.75kW is pulling 1.9kW and works perfectly it seems.
MonMotha:
--- Quote from: Kevin Mullins on February 08, 2009, 08:47:41 pm ---Very interesting.... I'll try to do some extensive testing and comparisons when we receive this little meter. We generally have a couple of any one type of appliance I can use to compare around here.
Gonna try and verify through the manufacturer on my well pump where they got their kilowatt usage data from. I'm starting to wonder if maybe it's from an non-loaded motor or something. (of course I'd have to pull mine to check that out of the water) Guess it's still baffling me how a motor rated at 0.75kW is pulling 1.9kW and works perfectly it seems.
--- End quote ---
If you have a 1HP motor that's actually pulling 1.9kW (I still don't believe that), something is likely broken. 1.9kVA is fine (though still a little more than I'd expect) and in line with the ratings plate you showed, but 1.9kW just seems wrong. That means the motor is dissipating over a kilowatt of heat (about as much as a normal space heater on the low or medium setting)! I'd expect the motor to burn up in short order if it's actually doing that. The resulting efficiency is also < 50%, which is incredibly poor, even for a cheap motor.
I have also experienced that those Kill-A-Watts do not give accurate readings on devices with "choppy" current draw like a lamp dimmer (in the dimmed setting) or a rectifier with capacitor output filter like that seen in an SMPS like a PC supply when operating at lighter than design max load. They do seem to give reasonable readings (including VA and PF) on more traditional devices like motors and resistance heaters.
Do check to see if your meter is perhaps reading VAs not Watts. It may read VAs in the corner but still only bill you for actual Watts. If it actually bills you by kVAh consumed, I'd say you need to have a talk with your utility provider.
Note that a Volt*Ampere (VA) has the same dimensions as a Watt. They're similar, but a VA number considers something known as reactive power (measured in VARs for Volt*Amps Reactive). VARs are the result of poor power factor, such as from a lightly loaded rectifier with capacitor output filter or a lightly loaded induction motor, and result in current that "sloshes around in the lines". The power companies don't like this because it causes more power loss for them and means they need to install bigger transformers, but they can't generally bill you for it. That's why larger customers are sometimes penalized for poor power factor. This is not generally a concern for residential customers. Note also that Watts + VARs = VAs. Despite having the same dimensions, power guys use the terms specifically to communicate what they're talking about more effectively.
Kevin Mullins:
--- Quote from: MonMotha on February 08, 2009, 10:48:49 pm ---If you have a 1HP motor that's actually pulling 1.9kW (I still don't believe that), something is likely broken.
--- End quote ---
I agree "something" isn't right.... but I do know that this meter is reading in kW. (hence my last picture posted which was indeed the well pump itself running) And everything else I have read off that meter works out correctly in kW for the ones I have actually compared appliance labels on.
So there may indeed be a problem with the pump, just a matter of figuring out what.
Do you think a faulty leg in the wiring could cause something like this?
(causing it to struggle and cause a greater draw or something)
Functionality wise it's just hard to tell. When the pressure tank drops enough to kick the pump on, it's only on for about thirty seconds and then it's off again. I think it's ON at 25psi and OFF at 60psi. I would have to double check that too. I can tell ya it takes a good bit of water running between on and off cycles.
--- Quote from: MonMotha on February 08, 2009, 10:48:49 pm ---I have also experienced that those Kill-A-Watts do not give accurate readings on devices with "choppy" current draw like a lamp dimmer (in the dimmed setting) or a rectifier with capacitor output filter like that seen in an SMPS like a PC supply when operating at lighter than design max load. They do seem to give reasonable readings (including VA and PF) on more traditional devices like motors and resistance heaters.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, I'm not expecting much from a $20-$25 meter like that.
But it should be enough to give off any kind of "oh ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- !!" factor if something shows to be an extreme usage device.
--- Quote from: MonMotha on February 08, 2009, 10:48:49 pm ---Do check to see if your meter is perhaps reading VAs not Watts. It may read VAs in the corner but still only bill you for actual Watts. If it actually bills you by kVAh consumed, I'd say you need to have a talk with your utility provider.
--- End quote ---
Just to reiterate that this digital electric meter clearly shows " kW "next to the readings given. (I just can't seem to get a good pic of it)
I'll try giving the power company a call and chew their ear awhile and see what information they have to offer. But I'm already pretty certain it's a proper kW reading having compared some of the other appliances which fall correctly into what they should be using.
Gonna start looking into heat pump units or combo units as far as heat and AC.
I've never liked having separate units of varying age and efficiency anyways.
Yet another reason I've been trying to find data to compare my readings with.
That way I can get at least a general idea just how inefficient mine really are comparatively. (I know there will be some variances amongst units)
MonMotha:
--- Quote from: Kevin Mullins on February 08, 2009, 11:53:58 pm ---
--- Quote from: MonMotha on February 08, 2009, 10:48:49 pm ---Do check to see if your meter is perhaps reading VAs not Watts. It may read VAs in the corner but still only bill you for actual Watts. If it actually bills you by kVAh consumed, I'd say you need to have a talk with your utility provider.
--- End quote ---
Just to reiterate that this digital electric meter clearly shows " kW "next to the readings given. (I just can't seem to get a good pic of it)
I'll try giving the power company a call and chew their ear awhile and see what information they have to offer. But I'm already pretty certain it's a proper kW reading having compared some of the other appliances which fall correctly into
what they should be using.
--- End quote ---
As I mentioned, Watts and VAs are related and have the same dimensions. They are commonly confused or misrepresented on consumer equipment, though I'd expect GE to get it right. I pulled up the spec sheet for your meter (I actually have the same meter, but mine has the present draw display disabled by the power company), and it wasn't overly clear. It does call it kW, but 1.9kW for a 1HP motor just seems wrong. It's one of those intuitive "this doesn't feel right" type numbers, and it screams VA at me, especially after seeing the ratings plate for the pump motor.
Who knows, maybe it's just a terribly inefficient motor, and they expect it to be cooled by being in the ground or something like that. Not like it runs often enough to justify a highly efficient one. It doesn't claim to be designed to any major standards on the plate, and I cannot find further data on the internet, so I can't use that for comparison. NEMA class B is a very common standard (the 25HP motor sitting in my garage claims that standard), and it would specify >78% efficiency for a 1HP motor, though that may only be for 3-phase.
I would just drop all this as it's somewhat nitty gritty, but it's really the only major thing I saw you post that seemed "weird" or major to me other than your use of electric resistance heat.
--- Quote from: Kevin Mullins on February 08, 2009, 11:53:58 pm ---Gonna start looking into heat pump units or combo units as far as heat and AC.
I've never liked having separate units of varying age and efficiency anyways.
Yet another reason I've been trying to find data to compare my readings with.
That way I can get at least a general idea just how inefficient mine really are comparatively. (I know there will be some variances amongst units)
--- End quote ---
There's very little mechanical difference between a heat pump and an air conditioner (a reversing valve, unit sizing, and duty cycle ratings). So if you buy a heat pump, you tend to get a very nice (and somewhat oversized, which can be handy) air conditioner "for free".
I'd suggest looking into geothermal options if you plan on keeping the property for a long time. Installation is much more expensive than a traditional heat pump, but they continue working even when it's bitterly cold and tend to have better COP during both the summer and winter, especially during the extremes. Some systems (usually the high end geothermal ones) also include domestic hot water functions, which further improves matters (in the summer, you make hot water by cooling down your house - it's neat). However, it may be that your climate or intended stay at this property cannot justify the installation.
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