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Scanline effects, LCDs, and a sort of recant
retrometro:
These aren't scanline templates. Just a series of scaled vs native rez using sailorsat's soft15khz
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjKLq-LMgjM[/youtube]
RandyT:
If anyone has seen any of my posts regarding LCDs, where I recommend getting the highest resolution panel possible (as long as you get enough video card to drive it), this is why. As higher resolution becomes available, it will be possible to more closely simulate the raster look on digital displays. Something that absolutely cannot be done decently on a low-res panel.
Also, to get the best effect from these overlays, one would need to design different patterns for specific input and output resolution pairs. Some of the effects are quite good, but I think they have only begun to scratch the surface of what will ultimately be possible.
RandyT
Ummon:
--- Quote from: TOK on January 30, 2009, 09:55:36 am ---The second actually looks more authentic to me. Games in the wild never seemed to look as pretty as the ones in our basements. Dingy fits. :)
--- End quote ---
You know, I've seen others here say this, and the only thing I can think of is that you all played some ---smurfy--- games in the day. All the places I went to had them working like tops! Even still, the ones I saw at the SuperAuctions in Phx last year that weren't looking their best looked at least as good as the first image.
--- Quote from: Turnarcades on January 29, 2009, 09:41:52 pm ---Maybe it's just me and the fact my eyes always kind of sucked, but I think I much prefer the clearer image that PC's can provide. At most I use interpolation or similar to soften the edges a little on most platforms besides MAME, but the black interruptions of scanlines and speckles from other effects hurt my eyes over time.
--- End quote ---
I still have at least close to 20/20 vision. Plus, as RayB has mentioned a few times, the convergence/focus of the monitor can play a factor in how pronounced the scanlines blank lines are, but there is still something about the reality such a display shows versus a PC CRT or LCD - almost real-looking vs caricatures - though LCDs (in conjunction with how mame is now displaying games, which I've even noticed on my arcade multisync when running default current mame) seem to be making some advance.
--- Quote from: RandyT on February 02, 2009, 12:13:06 pm ---
Also, to get the best effect from these overlays, one would need to design different patterns for specific input and output resolution pairs. Some of the effects are quite good, but I think they have only begun to scratch the surface of what will ultimately be possible.
RandyT
--- End quote ---
That's what I've been thinking.
--- Quote from: Loafmeister on January 31, 2009, 03:04:35 pm ---
--- Quote from: Turnarcades on January 29, 2009, 09:41:52 pm ---I am a MASSIVE arcade fan and accept there will never be a substitute for playing the authentic hardware as intended like we did back in the day. However, I've never felt this need as a lot of people do to bring back those visual effects that I consider to be quite vile like scanlines etc, particularly when the MAME effects tend to use extra processing power to pull them off.
Maybe it's just me and the fact my eyes always kind of sucked, but I think I much prefer the clearer image that PC's can provide. At most I use interpolation or similar to soften the edges a little on most platforms besides MAME, but the black interruptions of scanlines and speckles from other effects hurt my eyes over time.
--- End quote ---
Agreed. Scanlines was never something the devs intended, it was something they had to live it. Still, I can appreciate some want that "arcade" feel. To that, I'd say "can I come over and burn a cig on your CP?" ;)
--- End quote ---
Well, not only is the dimensionality I mentioned above a factor, but the 'texture' of the CRT mask, a circumstance similar to types of paper, or fabrics, or stitchings....
--- Quote from: Ginsu Victim on January 31, 2009, 12:57:10 am ---Thanks. I'll give it a try.
I just rotated Althor's scanrez2 and I really like that. Also bumped the contrast up as suggested. So far, so good.
--- End quote ---
Coolness.
Turnarcades:
--- Quote ---
--- Quote from: Turnarcades on January 29, 2009, 09:41:52 pm ---Maybe it's just me and the fact my eyes always kind of sucked, but I think I much prefer the clearer image that PC's can provide. At most I use interpolation or similar to soften the edges a little on most platforms besides MAME, but the black interruptions of scanlines and speckles from other effects hurt my eyes over time.
--- End quote ---
I still have at least close to 20/20 vision. Plus, as RayB has mentioned a few times, the convergence/focus of the monitor can play a factor in how pronounced the scanlines blank lines are, but there is still something about the reality such a display shows versus a PC CRT or LCD - almost real-looking vs caricatures - though LCDs (in conjunction with how mame is now displaying games, which I've even noticed on my arcade multisync when running default current mame) seem to be making some advance.
--- Quote from: RandyT on February 02, 2009, 12:13:06 pm ---
Also, to get the best effect from these overlays, one would need to design different patterns for specific input and output resolution pairs. Some of the effects are quite good, but I think they have only begun to scratch the surface of what will ultimately be possible.
RandyT
--- End quote ---
That's what I've been thinking.
--- Quote from: Loafmeister on January 31, 2009, 03:04:35 pm ---
--- Quote from: Turnarcades on January 29, 2009, 09:41:52 pm ---I am a MASSIVE arcade fan and accept there will never be a substitute for playing the authentic hardware as intended like we did back in the day. However, I've never felt this need as a lot of people do to bring back those visual effects that I consider to be quite vile like scanlines etc, particularly when the MAME effects tend to use extra processing power to pull them off.
Maybe it's just me and the fact my eyes always kind of sucked, but I think I much prefer the clearer image that PC's can provide. At most I use interpolation or similar to soften the edges a little on most platforms besides MAME, but the black interruptions of scanlines and speckles from other effects hurt my eyes over time.
--- End quote ---
Agreed. Scanlines was never something the devs intended, it was something they had to live it. Still, I can appreciate some want that "arcade" feel. To that, I'd say "can I come over and burn a cig on your CP?" ;)
--- End quote ---
Well, not only is the dimensionality I mentioned above a factor, but the 'texture' of the CRT mask, a circumstance similar to types of paper, or fabrics, or stitchings....
--- End quote ---
:dizzy: Sorry dudes, I'm never going to get my head around the technical side of all this, or recognise the apparent importance visually some of you need to have. Guess I'm getting old... :laugh:
I'll stick with what I know, but if you guys have found something that works well for you then fair play and enjoy these developments.
kagaden:
Eventually, once CRT's die out and there are few left I believe we'll get better focused development on emulating "the look". At that point, it'll be tough (or expensive) for new players into the arcade hobby to not go with some newer form of visual technology. Those with CRTs currently would do well to understand how to fix their own displays in the long term.
Currently, I prefer LCD over CRTs already due to their availability, profile, and weight. I figure I might as well adopt it already.
Edit: I'd like to ask again if anyone has a website that hosts different types of scanlines? I'd love to see some others. :applaud: