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I have nothing better to do but to complain about gas right now!

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Level42:
I think the real benefit is that now we're agreeing that something has to done.

15-20 years ago, lots of people would say there's nothing going wrong.

The sad fact _is_ that the US does not have a very good track record, (let's say from the last 8 years) when it came down to committing to reducing pollution etc. during various international conventions.
That's what you get when you have an oil-man as president. I hope and trust Obama will do better.

I hope my kid will have a cleaner and safer world in the future. I'm sure everybody shares that.

pinballwizard79:
I agree bush had a hand in oil issues, how much is debatable though.

Perhaps some people forgot about the eager pending ROI's on oil futures & how those can be manipulated with some power in the right places.

Bush's lack of fear regarding the middle east will be missed however.

Just minutes after Obama announced the closure of Guantanamo Bay another video surfaced of former detainees promoting Taliban terrorism against the west & its allies.

Now if that person was released, what about those deemed more dangerous than one let go who posts videos of christian murder?

Hopefully that sent a clear message to Obama, those people in the facility are not girl scouts. To those who feel sympathy after seeing images of the inmates in orange suits with bags over their heads................don't forget those poor poor people call all non-muslims "cows that must be murdered for allah".

Keep em locked up, maybe next time YOU get caught with an RPG in your house they will bail you out?

Heh, back to gasoline  ;)

daywane:

--- Quote from: richms on January 25, 2009, 09:24:50 am ---The solution is higher density housing tied into commercial areas so that there is no need for the car.

So long as people want to outlive their means by having a detached house in the middle of a large plot with a yard they have to maintain with even greater demands on water and resources just to look pretty, there will be an energy deficit.


More like bees in a hive and less mcmansions on land thats better used for agriculture etc...

--- End quote ---

That is one of the strangest posts I have ever read.
1st I have lived in Minniaplis St.paul
I could not make enough money to live
2nd I lived in Phoinex AZ. same thing. pay sucked . crime was teriable
cost of living 3 times what it is here.
I had 3 young children with me. I had enough. I moved them to the country in KY. I have never regreted it.
Payscale went from $10.00 a hour to 17.00 hr
utility are less than 1/2 what it was in the city.
house payment was $350.00 a month here (paid off now)
try and rent a place in the city  for that now.

The country used to grow food and cattle and tobacco
now the field's only grow hay and milking cows.
The USA government killed the farm industry for factory farming.
killed the tobacco industry
so now KY is going bankrupt.

I do own a large home and large yard that I do maintain 2 acres
4 bedroom 2 bath house.
cost me 46.000.00 
not to bad .

SavannahLion:

--- Quote from: daywane on January 25, 2009, 05:04:51 pm ---
--- Quote from: richms on January 25, 2009, 09:24:50 am ---The solution is higher density housing tied into commercial areas so that there is no need for the car.

So long as people want to outlive their means by having a detached house in the middle of a large plot with a yard they have to maintain with even greater demands on water and resources just to look pretty, there will be an energy deficit.


More like bees in a hive and less mcmansions on land thats better used for agriculture etc...

--- End quote ---

That is one of the strangest posts I have ever read.
1st I have lived in Minniaplis St.paul
I could not make enough money to live
2nd I lived in Phoinex AZ. same thing. pay sucked . crime was teriable
cost of living 3 times what it is here.
I had 3 young children with me. I had enough. I moved them to the country in KY. I have never regreted it.
Payscale went from $10.00 a hour to 17.00 hr
utility are less than 1/2 what it was in the city.
house payment was $350.00 a month here (paid off now)
try and rent a place in the city  for that now.

The country used to grow food and cattle and tobacco
now the field's only grow hay and milking cows.
The USA government killed the farm industry for factory farming.
killed the tobacco industry
so now KY is going bankrupt.

I do own a large home and large yard that I do maintain 2 acres
4 bedroom 2 bath house.
cost me 46.000.00 
not to bad .

--- End quote ---

I concur, besides ritz areas like Hollywood, living in the heart of the city is some of the most expensive places to live. Rent in downtown is two or three times what I pay.

Even outside of downtown (but still in the city), the amount of rent or mortgage is directly related to the size of the place. ie, pretty damn small. For the amount of money I pay in mortgage, the equivalent place in the city would be in a crap neighborhood or a place that's roughly half again what I have now. Even the low rent apartments aren't all that great, the most recent project is a converted sugar mill that was once a squatters residence. To save on costs, most of the apartments still have their original graffiti covered factory walls and you're under contract not to paint them.

danny_galaga:

--- Quote from: polaris on January 25, 2009, 09:15:33 am ---
--- Quote from: danny_galaga on January 25, 2009, 08:37:39 am ---
no, the problem is people can't seem to understand that it's much more efficient to burn a million 'cars' worth of fuel in one power station than in a million cars. much more efficient...

--- End quote ---

it doesnt stop carbon output though , just moves it, the national grid in the uk at least is quite inneficcient so probably negates the gain from centralized production.

--- End quote ---

everything including power stations are improving constantly. for instance, in australia we still use a lot of coal. prototype 'clean coal' stations have been tested and a new station in victoria is being built that reduces emissions by 30% and water use by 50% (which is very important for a country likes ours). if people had said 'oh, power stations arent perfect' and left it at that, nothing would be done. even so, if power stations were not improved in any way, that is still less carbon used per kilometer travelled (using an EV) than a petrol powered vehicle. purely through economy of scale...

savannah, you are like that IBM CEO who famously said in about 1950 'i can't see that there would be a need for more than about 5 computers in the world'. funnily enough though, you have made a good argument FOR EV by mentioning alternative domestic/industrial power sources. wouldn;t you know it, EV's can use those too  :o

there is this square that needs to be looked outside of. you can't say 'something needs to be done', and then do nothing. this mystery miracle cure of yours  wont happen that way. perhaps in fact, your mysterious miracle cure WILL be discovered along the way. but only while experimenting with things we know about now.

atomsmasher, i can vouch for natural gas. there hasn't been a big enough push in australia, even though, like the US, we have enough (hell, we export heaps to china) for all our transport needs. the council here uses it, and by Thor is it ever clean! when a diesel bus passes, you are choking on smoke. when a CNG bus passes- nothing! they are quieter too  :)

edit: i forgot. my home town uses natural gas for their power station. was commissioned about 20 years ago. i remember going to the open day and seeing the turbines. huge.

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