A Mame machine in an antique buffet - USB probs solved (I think!)

[drventure]

At long last. Finally picked up a scroll saw

A Delta 40-530. Not the top of the line, but it was 40$ on CL and came with extra blades.



Very tight, with a spiral blade I picked up, was able to cut amazingly intricate details with a completely smooth finish.

The blade change is a bit of a pain. I'm hoping I'm just not used to doing it.

This thing is HEAVY!

[jeremymtc]

Hey, cool. I have that exact same unit. Need to get some new blades though.

[Ond]

Had to post this.

I don't think I can use them in my cab, but dang these are gorgeous looking buttons

At long last. Finally picked up a scroll saw

A Delta 40-530. Not the top of the line, but it was 40$ on CL and came with extra blades.

Those buttons look fantastic!  But I suspect the actual 'push pressure' required is not suitable for arcade games,  I reckon they'd be a bit stiff.  Gives me ideas though.

I've always wanted a scroll saw , I'm jealous  ....

[drventure]

Yeah, I thought about the push pressure, but you might be able to take the springs out and replace them or cut them down/pre compress them.

And they also would work great for admin buttons as is.

I just wish i'd come across a decent scroll saw back when I started this cab. Oh well. better late than never.

[Yvan256]

Yeah, I thought about the push pressure, but you might be able to take the springs out and replace them or cut them down/pre compress them.

And they also would work great for admin buttons as is.

I just wish i'd come across a decent scroll saw back when I started this cab. Oh well. better late than never.

I bet somunny would have liked to use those buttons for his ARK project! (unless he did and I don't remember - I got distracted by how amazing his cab looks)

[drventure]

I've had a little more progress on the build.

I finally picked up a system to use in this cab. I could have sworn I posted about it, but I don't see it on the thread, so maybe I didn't

Anyway, I went with an AMD dual core athlon x64 5050e with an asus motherboard with built in nvidia 8300 video. So far, it seems completely adequate for what I'll be doing. And it's small, which was a necessity.

First, I grabbed a PDF of an micro ATX mobo, printed it life size for a template and cut up some hardboard to use for the case.



A good bit of sawing/drilling/nailing/gluing later and I ended up with this bare box.



Even though the case will be hung underneath, there's no way I was gonna leave it looking like this. I still had some stained wood trim from the CP build and some taffeta/batting from the upholstery I've done, so out it came. Throw in a painted grill from one of the speakers I ripped apart, and some left over mother of pearl studs, brass balls, acorn nuts, and gold rope trim and I ended up with this.



It's not full on steampunk, but I think it works with the cab quit nicely.

so from the top it looks like this with everything mounted up.



I mentioned that I picked up a bunch of those LED flicker lamps, so a couple HAD to go in here. I played with placement and decided the best look was mounted over the fan so you get a weird flicker/strobe effect on the fan (plus the bulbs are angled such that they cast a cool orangy pattern on the floor in the dark.



and turned on with lights going (it's a rough pic because I had to leave the shutter open so long...



I mounted it up, powered up and discovered that, for all the silencing work I'd done, I hadn't paid attention to the harddrive. Let me tell you, a harddrive screwed to a metal bracket screwed to a wood case screwed to the bottom of a buffet sized sheet of 5/8 inch walnut gets amplified about 100 times. It sounded like a Rush concert going on during boot up.

Needless to say, I had to pull it down, and remount the hd.

I used some squishy silicone HD isolators that came with an Antec case I bought a while back. Excellent case, BTW.



With those in place, all is back and quiet.

Final note, I need a nice way to hang this box UNDERNEATH the buffet, yet still let me have fairly ready access to it, for maintence etc.

I didn't want it hinged, cause working on it from underneath would be a pain. and I couldn't find any good hooks/clasps/etc that would fit in the tight space I had.

So I settled on magnets! Yep that's right, this case is hanging from beneath the buffet by 8 rare earth magnets (rated at 8lbs each) plus a lagbolt mounted behind them to intensify and direct the magnetic field. You can see them in the pic of the case, the little silver discs. I drilled countersink holes in the buffet bottom, then JBWelded all the magnets in place.

It takes a pretty good yank to get it apart but it works fantastically.

One thing that I discovered when setting this up.

JB Weld is MAGNETIC. You glob that stuff onto a magnet and it literally gets pulled all the way +around+ the magnet like something out of an XMEN movie! Surprised the hell out of me when I went to mount the first magnet.

Next step, getting that screen mounted.

[Ond]

I could have sworn I posted about it, but I don't see it on the thread, so maybe I didn't

  You did, and I asked you a question about it...well I can see it anyhoo.  Great idea putting some flicker lights in the case, a great looking upholstered PC case at that!  That's an interesting idea with the isolating washers, I think I'll try something similar under the bearing cages I use for my stepper motor to tone down the noise it transmits into the timber a bit.

[drventure]

You know, I'm gonna blame it on staying up late, and not on age

Yeah, now I see that post. <sigh>

Well, at least I didn't repeat myself too much.

Definitely try those washers out. I'm not sure where you'd get them by themselves though?

I looked on Antec's site and didn't see any.

I did turn up this

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article262-page1.html

But it's not quite the same thing.

[javeryh]

I just read this entire thread - totally sick.  This has to be one of the most original things I've seen around here in a while.   

[severdhed]

those rare earth magnets are pretty powerful...i'd be a little hesitant to have them near the hard drive of that PC...i've seen a few hard drives become corrupted because someone decided to stick magnets to the side of their PC case....

just be careful


on the other hand...this project is simply amazing....keep up the good work

[drventure]

Hey Javeryh

Yeah, I thought about that, but after doing some research, it looks like, generally speaking, you'd have to put the magnet +right up+ against the hd to have much of an effect.

And, it looks like you pretty much can't harm a drive with a magnet while the drive is off, only when it's on, and then, it's not that the magnet will harm the recorded info, but rather that the drive head (which is magnetic metal) can be attracted or repelled from the external magnet and go slamming into the platters.

Given that the heads are usually on the side where the connectors plug in, and in my case, that end of the drive is farthest from the mag in the corner, I don't think I have much to worry about. <fingers crossed!>

I did burn it in for a solid day over the weekend and haven't had any issues, so things are looking good.

But, it I loose this 1TB drive, I'll post back and eat that crow 

[gryhnd]

Great project!  I love the Steampunk/Warehouse 13 look. Nice job.

[drventure]

Funny you mention Warehouse 13. I just Tivo'd that and watched part of an episode last night. It was a bit tough to get into. Has it been on long? Does it pick up at all?

I want to like it. The sets are very cool and backstory seems interesting, but, I dunno, just wasn't clicking with me.

Maybe they've got some set stills someplace I can use for ideas...

[gryhnd]

Funny you mention Warehouse 13. I just Tivo'd that and watched part of an episode last night. It was a bit tough to get into. Has it been on long? Does it pick up at all?

Three episodes I believe.

It ain't highbrow, but when I'm shifting gears for bedtime (and so far that's the only place I've seen it), I find it decent entertainment. I like the banter between the two leads...it gives me some good fodder for arguing with my wife 

Do I think it will stand the test of time? No. Popcorn? Yes.

[drventure]

The knife switch I grabbed off ebay finally came today.



Not quite sure how I'm going to mount it. The thing is big. 7" handle with a solid slate base and copper prongs.

It's not quite as banged up as the flash photo makes it out to be, still it could use a little cleanup, maybe some polish. Or then again, maybe I'll just leave it as is?

Plus, as I understand it, most power switches for PC's these days like to be momentary. This definitely wouldn't be 

Now I just need an old electrical fuse panel and some 6 gauge wire!

[jwoods]

I think the Farnsworth and the Tesla will work in this discussion.

[gryhnd]

Plus, as I understand it, most power switches for PC's these days like to be momentary. This definitely wouldn't be 

I bet a relay and small circuit would take care of that.

...thinks, Googles...

Ya, here....just what you need:

Constant to Momentary Output

[drventure]

@jwoods

Excellent. I love the Farnsworth. The ray gun looks a little cheap but it's still pretty cool. Just needs to be beefier!


@gryhnd
That is GREAT!. But aren't pc power switches usually connected to the ground side? Would you want to send voltage down that line or just a ground connect?

[gryhnd]

In a low voltage situation it probably doesn't matter what you run through the switch, but in a typical situation (switchuation?) you usually wire up the (+)...that said...maybe switch the ground with everything being bare. Disclaimer though, I'm not an electrical engineer

[gryhnd]

I realized I misinterpreted your question completely.

You're not going to want to send any voltage on the side of the relay that will switch the computer on, that's correct. You just want it to close and complete the circuit for a blip.  So if I read that schematic correctly, you would take one of the two PC wires and put it on the part labeled "12V fused" and the other on the "12V momentary".  I don't see that there's any actual voltage here unless the 12V fused is a true 12V to begin with.

But, as I say, I'm not an EE.  I tend to experiment and occasionally blow things up 

Someone with superior knowledge should jump in here.

[DashRendar]

I'm not an EE either, but...

Are you sure you want electric current running through that knife switch?

I mean, the metal's exposed and all.  Not sure I'd want that out where people could get zapped!     

Maybe it would be better just for show, rather than being functional.

[gryhnd]

It'd only be 12V DC and not a whole lot of amps...nothing much to worry about IMO. You might feel a tingle if you held onto the metal and then grounded yourself to something.

i was thinking about that too, though...maybe DrV can come up with a cool looking flip-open case to protect the knife switch yet let it be seen.  Some perforated/cutout brass in suitable steampunk style, or very victorian...or...well...you get the idea.

[DashRendar]

It'd only be 12V DC and not a whole lot of amps...nothing much to worry about IMO. You might feel a tingle if you held onto the metal and then grounded yourself to something.

i was thinking about that too, though...maybe DrV can come up with a cool looking flip-open case to protect the knife switch yet let it be seen.  Some perforated/cutout brass in suitable steampunk style, or very victorian...or...well...you get the idea.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.  Maybe run shielded wires behind the metal, or bore a path in the metal- it looks thick enough to do that.

Or, it could be done with a push button switch and a spring around the handle perhaps.  When pushing the switch closed, you would push down through the spring, but it would bounce back.

[Bender]

How about something similar to what Dash said, put a little plunger switch in the middle on the bottom there so when you close it it hits the little microswitch, and have NO current at all through the thing

you could hide the look of the switch in some kind of little block or something

[severdhed]

How about something similar to what Dash said, put a little plunger switch in the middle on the bottom there so when you close it it hits the little microswitch, and have NO current at all through the thing

you could hide the look of the switch in some kind of little block or something

if it hit the microswitch when it closed, wouldnt it still be holding the button in, similar to a push on/push off switch?

what about something like this:



one wire would attach at the hinge side of the knife switch. the other could attach to small conductive pad mounted on a non conductive post, that is taller than the regular contacts on the switch.. that way when closing the switch, the lever would briefly come into contact with the conductive pad, completing the circuit,  and then move right past it until it is closed position.(which would open the circuit back up)  this would be just enough momentary contact to trigger the PC to turn on or off.   

[drventure]

Wow, I go away for the weekend and you guys are all over this!

Thanks for all the input and ideas.

@Severedhed
Dang, nice drawing! I see what you're getting at but I'm not sure how I'd do it. the base is solid slate that I'm not sure I'd want to drill through or even could drill through without getting a diamond bit. But, I MIGHT be able to put some kind of non-conductive mask IN the contacts that are there so that closing it momentarily swipes the contact, even though the switch appears to be completely closed. It's an interesting idea. I guess it's the partial EE in me that was looking for the circuit solution.

@Bender and Dash
Yeah, i'd considered a switch like that but, there's that whole messing up/with the slate base that I'm not sure I want to do.

@gryhnd and Dash. Yeah, I'd definitely not want to run anything more than 12v through an exposed switch like that. Actually, I'd rather not run even 12v. But I think I've got a circuit together that'll convert a constant switch to a momentary switch with just 5v and few capacitors, resistors, and relays.
I just need a full on EE to verify it for me.

The biggest problem is that when everything is OFF, I'd like for there to be NO VOLTAGE anywhere exposed. So the switch needs to toggle power on for the PC with no voltage available, but then once the PC is on, there will be 12v or 5v obtainable easily from a HD power plug that I can use to power a circuit to toggle the PC power on connector when the knife switch is disengaged.

I'm going to draw up the circuit a little better than the scratchings on a napkin that me and my dad put together this weekend and post here it for some critique 

My prob is I have no idea how to calculate the values of any of the caps/resistors/ etc. Did I mention I +really+ didn't care for my EE classes way back when 

[drventure]

Well, my initial magnetically attached hanging PC case didn't exactly work as planned.

It held, for almost 2 days. Then one morning I was making coffee and heard a pretty load "crash".

Took a bit of searching till I discovered that the case had "separated" from the buffet and dropped about 1.5feet onto a hardwood floor.

Fortunately, everything was off at the time and there was no damage.

But, that told me my magnets (even with the solid bolt backer rods) just weren't quite enough.

I got online and looked up the string. These particular mags are .5 in dia and .125 in thick, with a pull strength of 5.3lb.

My case,fully loaded is 16lbs.

Since there are 4 mags, I thought 20+lbs of pull would be enough, and it IS, but it doesn't take much more to knock it loose.

So, I picked up a set of these.


http://www.rare-earth-magnets.com/detail-ID-139.html

And a few of these



The magnets are rated at 16lb pull, so 3 times more than what I'm using now.

The hooks are decorative and definitely look good with the red upholstery, but will serve as a backup to the magnets as well.

I still like the magnet technique just because it's so much easier to lift up and get set into place. No manhandling the box while fumbling with hooks at the same time.

It's overkill, but what about this cab hasn't been 


BTW, if you want/need to awesome magnets, browse around that site. They have a .5 dia by 1in thick rod magnet with 28lbs of pull force. Yikes. and that's a pretty dang small magnet.

[drventure]

I posted a few days ago about finally getting an old Knife switch for use as the power on device.

Thanks again to everyone that threw out ideas on how to implement it.

I'm still formulating a plan, but, I just discovered something tonight that I didn't know, maybe everyone else does, but I thought I'd share.

If your PC motherboard BIOS supports the WAKE ON USB feature, and you've got at least one USB port that receives +5vsb (the 5v standby power), you +should+ be able to set a button on your control panel (shifted or not) to act like the POWER button on many USB keyboards.

Just run the WIN IPAC program, right click on a button and there's the POWER option right there!

I don't think this will work with a continuous ON switch like the knife switch, but that's a heck of an intriguing option

I've got some experimenting to do tomorrow. Also want to try and get WAKE ON LAN over a Wireless USB dongle working. looks like it might be possible too...

Time for bed....

[drventure]

I've had the screen I'm going to use for a a few weeks now, just propped it up on a table next to my cab to check everything out.

I had to work up the nerve to go drilling holes in a very nicely finished piece of 1" thick walnut, even if that's the only way I'm going to get this monitor mounted <sigh>

So, A few days ago, i bit the bullet.

First, I marked off the extents of the monitor (even mocked up a cardboard box that's the exact same size to make SURE I had clearance (I did, but only about 1/4 inch all the way around, so much for using a 4" wide fancy gilt victorian frame for it 



Once I was fairly certain I had the right placement, out came the bits. I used brass insert nuts to provide the flushest mount possible.



I didn't really trust the 2 fairly thin screws that came with the monitor mount bracket. Plus, there were ONLY 2 holes for mounting the bracket. That didn't seem like enough, so I picked up some beefier screws, drilled 2 more holes in the mounting plate and used 4 bolts instead of just 2. With that, i don't think I have to worry about the monitor pulling free (at least, here's hoping!)

The end result? I've done a +very bad thing+ 

The cab is now actually playable!



And, of course, not much more has been done on it in the last few days other that configure sticks, buttons, boot screens, etc.

Still got a lot to do. There's all the LEDs to wire up to my LEDWiz, that backplate (that the monitor is attached to) +really+ needs some trimout (the Nixie tubes, a brass gas lamp, some gears, maybe that chain sprocket assembly....), all the wiring is going in brass or copper pipes, etc, etc.

But, one surprising positive. Multiple mice support in Mame 129 worked AMAZINGLY WELL. I had 2 simultaneous player trackball games working in about 2 minutes. Flawlessly. And the spinner works independently as well!

The Bios on this asus mobo even recognizes them all (2 keyboards, and 5 (yep 5) mice!.

Unfortunately, even though the USB ports remain powered when the PC is off, the mobo doesn't appear to support Wake on USB. 

It's got the option to wake on PS2 keyboard or mouse, which works just fine, but my IPac4 and trackball mice are all USB.

Doesn't make any sense why they'd leave power to the USB ports, but NOT support WO_USB. Hopefully, I find out I just have some weird bios setting off, but I haven't found it yet.

[Bender]

Wow, looks great! Haven't seen the whole thing in a while, you really have made some major progress!

[drventure]

Thanks bender. It's coming along, albeit lots more slowly now!

Had a bit of a scare just a few minutes ago. My brother came over to check it out and EVERY SINGLE BUTTON suddenly started acting like a CTRL key! WTF!

I rebooted, but no effect.

Then I remembered, this particular mobo appears to leave power to all USB devices even when it's off. Not sure what's up with that because there is no WAKE ON USB that I can find in the bios, so leaving power on doesn't seem to be very "green" for a "green" motherboard. Put an email into ASUS about it, but we'll see if I get an answer.

It's a M3N78-VM in case anyone's seen any issues like this before or has an idea about the USB.

Anyway, cycling the usb devices solved the problem, so I'm guessing my IPAC got snackered somehow and needed a boot.

Still, don't like that at all.

[drventure]

Another handy tidbit I thought I'd share.

I've read a lot of good things about those "SmartPower" strips that have a "master" plug, that, when whatever is plugged into that outlet is turned off, the strip turns off the power to ALL the other outlets. Obviously that's REALLY handy for cab builds.

The one I've see the most is this:


http://www.smarthomeusa.com/shopbymanufacturer/bits-ltd./item/lcg5/

But I rarely seen those for <35$ or so. That same company makes a single row strip that's cheaper, though. I've seen them online for from 20$ to 30$.

I was in walmart recently and happened to notice this Philips smartstrip, though.


http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=6528241

The list is 25$, but I got mine for 20$ and it was right there in wally world. No shipping or waiting.

At any rate, this things works a treat. I was really wondering how it'd work with a computer that NEEDS to have power fed to it while off (for the Wake on lan, wake on kdb, etc to work). No problems. And it's pretty small, too. Works perfectly. Power the PC off, everything else shuts down. Power up the PC (no matter how) and everything else comes back on.

The surge suppression element might not be all that good (the one online says it's rated at 1080 joules, mine says 1440, but neither is as much as the bigger smartstrip at 2250, though it's about inline with the smaller version).

Still, it might be worth checking out if you need something like this. I actually put a whole house suppressor in a while back, so I'm a tad less worried about that part.

[Bender]

Had a bit of a scare just a few minutes ago. My brother came over to check it out and EVERY SINGLE BUTTON suddenly started acting like a CTRL key! WTF!

I rebooted, but no effect.

Then I remembered, this particular mobo appears to leave power to all USB devices even when it's off. Not sure what's up with that because there is no WAKE ON USB that I can find in the bios, so leaving power on doesn't seem to be very "green" for a "green" motherboard. Put an email into ASUS about it, but we'll see if I get an answer.

It's a M3N78-VM in case anyone's seen any issues like this before or has an idea about the USB.

Anyway, cycling the usb devices solved the problem, so I'm guessing my IPAC got snackered somehow and needed a boot.

Still, don't like that at all.

might it have something to do with it dropping on the floor?

[drventure]

 

Touche!

I don't think so. That was a week or so ago. Plus, I dropped the PC case part, not the CP, which is where the IPAC lives.

So far, I've been really happy with the way the PC case turned out, and with the AMD/ASUS mobo combo. And supposedly, it's quite overclockable, though for right now, it plays everything I've thrown at it except Alpine Racer.

I think my last foray into overclocking was with 486s, so it's been awhile

[gryhnd]

But I rarely seen those for <35$ or so. That same company makes a single row strip that's cheaper, though. I've seen them online for from 20$ to 30$.

Good find!

I picked up my latest Smartstrip SCG5 for the island build via Buy's store on eBay for $27 incl tax, free delivery at the time. Looks like they are charging $6 for delivery now though

[drventure]

No pics just cause it's late and I don't have everything hooked up yet.

Buttt.....

Finally got around to wiring up a few LEDs to my LEDWiz and installing LEDBlinky.

Holy cow. Frickin' cool!

Those speaker cones glow with any color imaginable. And all those blinky "fake tealight candle" led's work perfectly.

I'm planning on changing out the LED's that illuminate the two trackballs to ones hooked up to the wiz so I can at least fade and blink them (eventually, I suppose it'd be cool to get milk white trackballs so I could make them glow any color with a couple RGB's.

Anyway, jeez, this'll keep me busy for weeks....

[drventure]

I have a problem I thought I'd throw out and see if anyone's got any better ideas for a solution than myself.

I have a logitech flightstick mounted in my CP (yeah, I know, it's a frankenpanel, but it is what it is....)



Anyway, see that gaping ugly hole it sticks through?

I've been trying to come up with some idea for a boot to cover that up.

My first thought was a pretty standard dust washer, but it'd have to be big, so big that it'd bump up against those buttons.

I can't really use the rubber boot that came with the stick because it's not big enough to cover the entire hole.

I was thinking possibly of using the red fabric I used elsewhere on the cab and fashioning my own boot. That's actually the leading idea at this point. It's gotta be a relatively thin material because if it's very thick, it'll cut down on the stick travel

Anyone have any other suggestions?

[severdhed]

i'm thinking that a thin fabric boot is probably your best option...how exactly to implement that...i'm not sure

[Epyx]

how much clearance do you have at the underside of the circle between the circle and the controller base?

You could leave it a hole and spray the inside wall of the hole black and then fasten a smaller ABS disc (sprayed gold to match the buttons) from underneath since you would require less movement closer to the base of the shaft the diameter would be smaller so looking into the shaft you would see black wall and golden disc below that.

Like this:



Then you could even have a 2nd golden disc that was part of the controller below the 2nd so you would only just see the golden yellow (where you currently see the inner black circle...it would sit just under the permanent disc.

[drventure]

Hmm, now something like that just might work. I could even use a nice etched brass plate down there...

Hmm, I like that. Looks like I have some fabrication to do this weekend