LED Wiz wiring questions (help randyt or anybody;))

[ivwshane]

I'm beginning the wiring planning phase of my cp and I have a few questions.

First I need to know if I have the right amount of devices to achieve what I want.
I have:
18 buttons that will have an RGB drive each
1 electric ice trackball (I will be using the RGB that's built in)
2 LED lights for (triple led cluster) coin reject buttons

If my understanding on how LED-wiz's work is correct, I figured that means I need 59 inputs, does that sound correct? I believe that the LED-wiz can control 32 unique outputs which means I would need two of them, correct?

I have two u360's+trackball for controls.
Since the u360's have a built in controller I will be using them to control 8 buttons each and the ice trackball will control another two buttons. That leaves two buttons (the coin reject buttons) and I plan to control those with an LED-wiz+GP.

I believe I have everything I need for controls and button inputs, can anyone confirm?
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Now for the actual wiring this is what I have planned:

The two LED-wiz's will be powered via a pc power supply running off a molex connector using one black and one yellow lead each (giving me 12v+), am I right? And is that the correct way to get enough power to the wiz's?

What gauge wire should I be using for everything (the RGB drives are already wired)? And where is the best place to get the wire?


Is there anything else I need to take into consideration?

[Franco B]

I'm no RandyT but hopefully I can help a bit 

You are correct that you will need 57 outputs for the RGB's and you will need also need to power the coin door clusters. Do you want to control the clusters too?

What are the voltage of the clusters? I'm guessing they will need 12v?

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If that is the case and you do want to control the clusters you will need two LED Wiz's and one LED Wiz+GP.

You could configure the first LED Wiz to run 5v and use the to control the first 10 RGB's using 30 of the outputs.

You could then configure the 2nd LED Wiz so that banks 1-8, 9-16 and 17-24 run at 5v and connect the remaining 8 button RGB's to run off that. You would then need to configure bank 24-32 to run at 12v and connect the two coin door clusters to two of the outputs (say 24 and 25).

You still have the trackball to light so you could run that from the LED-Wiz+GP using thee of the outputs.

This would leave you 2 free 5v outputs on the first LED Wiz, two 12v outputs on the second LED Wiz (from the 12v bank you created) and 13 5v outputs on the LED Wiz+GP.


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If you don't wish to control the coin door clusters you can just hook them up to a 12v molex (if they are 12v lights, you may need to use resistor(s) to bring the power down if they are 6v etc but I imagine they will be 12v)

In this scenario you will still need two LED Wiz's to control the 19 RGBs.

Connect the first ten button RGBs to LED Wiz one and the other eight button RGBs and trackball RGB to LED Wiz two.

This would leave you two 5v outputs on LED Wiz one and five 5v outputs on LED Wiz two.

You wouldn't need a LED Wiz+GP but you would still need to connect the trackball buttons. Its probably a bit over kill and spendy to get a encoder just for two buttons. I would suggest hacking the buttons from a mouse or a cheap gamepad, Randy stocks hackable USB gamepads for about $6.

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In scenario one, you wouldn't need to power LED Wiz one as it would take the 5v from USB, LED Wiz two would want 12v (Yellow and black ground) from a molex for bank 24-32. The LED Wiz+GP wouldn't need power as it too would take 5v from USB.

In scenario two, neither LED Wiz would need external power as it would take it from USB. You would just need to give the clusters 12v from a molex.

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As for wire, we are not talking huge voltages so you probably just want to use some stranded ~22AWG, the same you would use for wiring controls. Most home electronics stores (Maplins, Radioshack etc) should carry it.

Hope that helps a little.

[RandyT]

Mostly good advice here (thanks, Franco!).

However, I don't think USB power will suffice here.  10 RGB's all on at once (white light) will consume 600ma, which is 100ma more than what is specified for USB and doesn't take into account the power required by the LED-Wiz itself  or any other device which may be attached.

The right thing to do is to run that 5v line from the power supply, and make sure the gauge of the wire is large enough to support all of the devices you will be powering.  Then just attach the (+) side of all of the 5v devices to that junction, which can be aided through the use of something similar to the Euro-Terminal blocks offered at GGG.

Just keep all of the external (+) wiring away from the LED-Wiz's in this installation.  These aren't inductive loads, so you shouldn't need to use the "bank voltage select" terminals.

Any other questions, feel free to email.

RandyT

[ivwshane]

Thanks for the responses guys. If I wasn't a total newb I'm sure your answers would make perfect sense:o

Just so I have it straight. Does this look correct? And with regards to the terminal block, is the bottom figure what you are talking about? If so, for my setup how many blocks would I need?

[RandyT]

This is what you want.

[ivwshane]

Sweet! Thanks!

[blind_dado]

Why does the +5v have to go to the LED Wiz at all?  Can't it just go to the terminal block and bypass the LED Wiz entirerly?  You don't even need the ground wire attached to the LED Wiz either, as I understand.  I have my LED Wiz set up like that and it works fine. (See lower left of picture.)  The LEDs are actually powered off of the single red wire in the center of the picture, which leads to a terminal block not pictured.

[ivwshane]

Can you post a pic of your setup? I'm having a hard time visualizing it.

Is this what you did:

[blind_dado]

I did it like your bottom picture, with the terminal block for the power, BUT I also did not run a ground to the LED Wiz.  I think that the board just gets its ground from the USB port.

[DeLuSioNal29]

Won't that void your warranty?   

[RandyT]

Why does the +5v have to go to the LED Wiz at all?  Can't it just go to the terminal block and bypass the LED Wiz entirerly?  You don't even need the ground wire attached to the LED Wiz either, as I understand.  I have my LED Wiz set up like that and it works fine. (See lower left of picture.)  The LEDs are actually powered off of the single red wire in the center of the picture, which leads to a terminal block not pictured.

LEDs are non-inductive loads.  Inductive loads are usually anything with a coil (electromagnet, relay, etc...)  So if you are just running LEDs, you don't need to run the (+) side to the board.

Running the ground is just good practice.  This allows one to size the return line to the load, which can't be done effectively with only the USB cable as these may be, and usually are, designed for low current.

RandyT

[blind_dado]

Good to know!  I'll run a ground line to the LED Wiz now.  Luckily I have a ground line on a terminal block nearby, so it should be easy.

FYI, The picture you have on the second page of the instructions that come with the LED Wiz, titled "Example showing proper wiring of an RGB and Standard LED," shows the LEDS wired to the "USB +5v Output" on the LED Wiz and nothing attached to the ground.  But that is the opposite of what you have desribed in this thread, namely, getting the +5 volts directly from the PC and running a ground line to the LED Wiz.

I found the instructions difficult to follow; maybe a better picture would help.

[nailsn]

Do I need such a "terminal block", or is it sufficient if I would just chain the LEDs in a row with the red +5v cable?
(like you do this when powering through the usb output from the LEDWiz)

[blind_dado]

A terminal block just makes the daisy chaining a bit more neat.  Electrically, it is the same as just twisting all the wires together.

This is what my terminal block for power to the NovaGem LEDs looks like.  The red wire on the left is the incoming +5v, and it sends power to all the other wires via the terminal block (costs a couple of bucks at Radio Shack).

[Bonechip]

Heya Gang,

So is this the correct format for connecting around 25-30 LED's?

[RandyT]

So is this the correct format for connecting around 25-30 LED's?

That would do it!

[blind_dado]

I'd be interested in what Randy has to say, but I believe you have S and L reversed.  The long end of the LED is usually the Anode, and the resistor goes on the Anode.

[Bonechip]

So is this the correct format for connecting around 25-30 LED's?

That would do it!

Thanks Randy!

[blind_dado]

Why do I feel ignored?

[MonMotha]

I'd be interested in what Randy has to say, but I believe you have S and L reversed.  The long end of the LED is usually the Anode, and the resistor goes on the Anode.

The short wire is the cathode (goes toward ground), and the long wire is the anode (goes towards positive supply).  That is consistent with the diagram posted above.

The resistor can go on either side.  Electrically, it doesn't matter.  There are practical considerations for putting the resistor on either side, and one could argue them all day long.

[Bonechip]

Anode = Long wire (Positive side)
Cathode = Short wire (Negative side)

[Bonechip]

Another example

[blind_dado]

So the resistor can go on either the anode or the cathode.  Well, wish I knew that when I was wiring up my cp, because practical concerns made it a PITA to put the resistors on one rather than the other.  Learn something new every day!

[RandyT]

So the resistor can go on either the anode or the cathode.  Well, wish I knew that when I was wiring up my cp, because practical concerns made it a PITA to put the resistors on one rather than the other.  Learn something new every day!

Resistors resist current flow.  Putting them on either side of the circuit will work.


RandyT

[Tony555]

Hi all.

I just have a quick question about wiring up to the NEW LEDWiz. I will need to use power from my PSU in the computer.

Do I wire it the same as the diagrams above??? I have re-done the diagram below to represent the new LED Wiz. Is this the correct way of wiring (my new writing is in purple)...why does the NEW LEDWiz call it USB+5v??? Why not just +5v???

[Tony555]

Ok...I think my picture in the previous post is wrong....if I am using the computer's PSU to power the RGB Drive, should I just SKIP the LEDWiz altogether (like in my NEW picture below)??

[Nephasth]

http://groovygamegear.com/PDF/LEDWIZv2_INSTALL.pdf

See figure 2 on how the power should be connected to the board.

[Tony555]

Ok, thanks Nephasth...I have redrawn the diagram with the latest LEDWiz...Is this correct???

[Nephasth]

That'll work.

[Tony555]

Thanks Nephasth...

I have a few questions though...

1. If 1-8 are hooked up like this, what do I do with the next RGB Drive? I will have to hook up 2 cables to 7 & 8 and the third cable to 9. So which voltage bank does it go to? 1-8 or 9-16??

2. The diagram from GGG shows what to do for 1-8 and 9- 16, but what about 17-24 and 25-32

[Nephasth]

1. If you're using 5V for everything, just jumper all the bank voltage screw terminals together.
2. Same as 1-8 and 9-16.

Kind of hard to see, but I've got all the bank voltage terminals jumped (daisy chained) together here:

[Tony555]

Ahhh...that makes sense...I will do that...thanks again...

Just wondering why the diagram from GGG says to make 9-16 12v? Won't that blow the LEDs?

And just another question....as advised from GGG, I was going to add a fuse in between the computer's PSU and the LEDWiz. Do you know what size fuse I should ask for at the shop?

Thanks again Nepasth!!!

[Nephasth]

Just wondering why the diagram from GGG says to make 9-16 12v? Won't that blow the LEDs?

It's just to show that you can use different voltages on different banks. With the appropriate resistors (built in or external) LEDs can run on 12V (and other voltages).

And just another question....as advised from GGG, I was going to add a fuse in between the computer's PSU and the LEDWiz. Do you know what size fuse I should ask for at the shop?

I didn't use any fuse...

[Tony555]

Ok...thanks again

I am just using Electric Ice 2 buttons with RGB Drives, so I will stick to the 5V all the way...

I was just having a look at your photo....are you using 22 Gauge wire for wiring up the LEDWiz??

[Nephasth]

Yep, all 22 gauge.

[Tony555]

Hi again...thanks for all your advice Nephasth...I have another question...

I just tested out the LED WIZ with only 1 RGB drive...It worked GREAT!!! I just used Luminaudio with a song playing

I am just wondering how to CORRECTLY wire the RGB Drives into the LED WIZ? There are obviously 4 wires coming from the RGB Drive (one for each RGB and a +5v). The +5v is easy to see (becuase it has a red mark on it). I know I have to connect the three wires to 1, 2 and 3 on the LED Wiz for the first RGB Drive and then 3, 4 and 6 for the next RGB Drive etc etc...but how do I know which of the 3 wires to put into the 1 socket on the LED Wiz?? Does it even matter?? For my test, I just randomly placed the 3 wires into 1, 2 and 3 on the LED Wiz

[Nephasth]

It doesn't really matter what RGB grounds you put in what LED-Wiz output terminals, but it makes things much easier if you are consistent with your wiring. I stick with 1-R, 2-G, 3-B for the first RGB LED, 4-R, 5-G, 6-B for the second and so on. It just makes setting up the software a little easier when everything is consistent, but you have to go through each output in the software (LEDBlinky anyway) to assign the color of each lead anyway, so it doesn't really matter too much.

[Tony555]

Ok, cool...that makes sense...thanks again...I have 30 RGB Drives and 3 LED Wizs...I am only going to to use 10 RGB Drives per LED Wiz (30 inputs per LED Wiz)...

Do you know why there are only 32 inputs on a LED Wiz?...shouldn't there be either 30 or 33?? This won't affect my setup...I am just curious

[Mysterioii]

Because it uses a purchased driver chip with 8 outputs each, and he uses 4 of these chips...  Yeah it would be more convenient in some ways if it was a multiple of 3, but he exposes all the outputs of the chips on the board.  Besides, not everyone is only driving RGB LEDs.  Some people use single-color LEDs, or you might be using it to drive something besides LEDs entirely...