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Defender style general MAME control panel
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jukingeo:
Hello all,

I am looking to put together a Mame control panel.  Up to now I been using mostly pre-made stuff, similar to the X-arcade panels.  I wanted something more intuitive based on the style of games I play.

I have been exposed to Mame around 2000 or so, but I have not really created my own cabinet or anything up until now.

At any rate in terms of my game playing style,  a little background is in order.   I grew up in the early video game era and played many of the early classics when they came out:  Space Invaders, Asteroids, Defender, Pac-Man, etc.  My interested remained pretty strong in the early games up until the late 80's.

I do not care for the newer arcade games and pretty much dislike the current "arcade" (or family fun center as they are now called) infestation of fighting and driving games.

There are very few driving games I like:  Pole Position, Spy Hunter, Outrun, Road Blasters (again older games in general).

Also from the early era there are very few trackball games I liked:  Centipede, Missle Command, Capcom Bowling.

Again is true of spinner games such as:  Arkanoid, Breakout, Tempest, Tron.

There were many more tank or two stick games that I played during this era:  Battlezone, Vindicators, Smash TV, Crazy Climber, Robotron.

I very rarely play with other people and most of the people I do play with have similar gaming interests as I do.  Many of the early 80's games were of the alternating player type so a control panel for two players is not mandatory.

Given this realization, I decided to go with a control panel that would be interchangeable instead of trying to fit every single control needed into one very large and awkward panel.

Given the fact I was going to create a smaller cabinet, or even a wallmount/countertop unit, an all in one control panel was out of the question.

My ideas for an interchangeable panel were gleaned from the BYOAC site.   So the next question that came up would be what to do first?

After much thought, I believe the interchangeable concept offered on Craig's Roswell 88201 cabinet was the way to go.

See here:

http://www.ourvictorianhouse.com/CraigsArcade/Roswell%2088201/Roswell.html

Craig mentioned (in another post) that his creation of the Defender panel (on the page above) will play about 90% of his games.   I did a bit of digging and compared layouts (on KLOV) and I do find that he is correct. So I decided my first control panel would be based on his concept of the Defender/Stargate style panel. 

I attempted to contact Craig for dimensions of his panel, but alas, his email address is no longer functioning.  Thus now I am turning here for help.

I am a bit out of the loop in terms of MAME control panels and I forgot what the standard size panel was.    I also don't know how far to space the controls apart, that would be comfortable for long term playing.

I do not intend to copy Craig's design to the letter.  For one, Craig is employing a two way joystick on the left.   I think this would be a waste and would like to put two 8 way/4way joysticks in place.   The presence of two joysticks would open the door to some of the tank games and two joystick games that I like to play.   However, given this kind of setup would necessitate the incorporation of selectable 4way/8way joysticks.  While I do have some arcade parts and I do have 4-8way joysticks, they are of the type that you have to take apart to reset.  That isn't good for this scenario.  So that is my next question, what is a good quality joystick that I can easily convert from 4 way to 8 way without taking the whole thing apart?

At one point in time, I do remember that one company made restriction "plates" that bolted to the top of the cabinet and that changing two parts of the plate would alter the directional control of the joysticks.   I am interested in this concept, but if nowadays there are ways to get around them, then I am all ears.

As for buttons, I have many of those already and I am good to go.

I am wondering if there happens to be a computer program by now that allows you to create panels and print them out in full size.   I figure I could test my button placement that way and perhaps even make a cardboard mock-up first.   I am not sure if they have programs like that by now.

Anyway, any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

Geo
pmc:
I got my Defender CP dimensions from Brien King's site but I think there are lots of other sources. Do some searching here. It's discussed here periodically.

FWIW, I made multiple panels and swap them out when I want to switch to more exotic controls. That's how I avoided a frankenpanel. 9 out of 10 times I stick with the basic panel which has 4/8-way switchable sticks and 6-buttons per player (too many for what you want). It's tight, but there's room for two player controls on that panel. Just make sure to leave enough palm-rest space.

-pmc
severdhed:
I don't know how much help i will be..but here it goes:

Spacing:
(all measurements are from the centers of the holes drilled)
i based my control panel spacing on an x-arcade 2 player unit that i had.  the buttons are 1.5" apart, and my joysticks are 3" apart from the closest buttons.  this makes for a very comfortable feel when playing.  you could put more space between the sticks and buttons, that shouldn't make a difference.


there are a few choices for joysticks that are switchable.  there is the UltiMarc MagStik, that you switch by pulling up on the stick and rotating it.  there is the omnistik prodigy, which has a mounting plate that is visible from the top of the panel, with a lever that you can move to switch it.  and then there is the Ultimarc Ultrastik 360.  it isn't switchable in the strictest sense of the word..it is an analog stick that uses custom maps to change i'ts functionality.  it can work as an 8 way, 4 way, 2 way, diagonal 4 way..just about anything you want.  it doesn't have a physical restrictor, but from what i have heard it is the most versatile stick you can get.

i haven't personally used any of these, but i have been trying to decide which one to get for some time now.  i'm leaning towards the ultrastick360, but not sure i want to drop that much cash on a stick right now.


i hope that was at least some help, i'm sure there are others here who have experience with these sticks that may be of more help.
jukingeo:

--- Quote from: pmc on December 02, 2008, 12:28:38 pm ---I got my Defender CP dimensions from Brien King's site but I think there are lots of other sources. Do some searching here. It's discussed here periodically.
--- End quote ---

There is a fellow in this very forum by the name of "Spacies" that has created some nice "smaller" versions of the Multi-Williams cabinet control panel.  He made them to fit his cocktail and bartop cabinets.   I am really interested in this:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=83036.0

(Scroll to the middle)

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=66946.0

(second picture down)

I actually like this artwork better than the original Defender/Stargate. 



--- Quote ---
FWIW, I made multiple panels and swap them out when I want to switch to more exotic controls. That's how I avoided a frankenpanel. 9 out of 10 times I stick with the basic panel which has 4/8-way switchable sticks and 6-buttons per player (too many for what you want). It's tight, but there's room for two player controls on that panel. Just make sure to leave enough palm-rest space.

-pmc

--- End quote ---

I didn't want the "Frankenpanel" look either.  I started out with that kind of design in the beginning, but never got past a cardboard mock-up.  I didn't like it and sure enough, as Mame continued gaining momentum, the Frankenpanel fell out of favor in lieu of more streamlined designs via interchangeable or rotating panels.

Back on the BYOAC site, four cabinets stood out the most:

1) 1UP's Pac-Mamea
2) Doc's Modular
3) Roswell 88201
4) Rototron

All of these cabinets I consider the utmost in custom cabinet creation.   However, out of all of them, for a smaller application such as mine, it seemed that only the Roswell 88201 cabinet design would fit my scenario.

As in his case, my scenario would also fit across three panels.   After doing extensive research, it does seem that the "Stargate" or "Multi-Williams" variant control panel would truly support 90% of the games I am interested in.   The biggest improvement would be the inclusion of that second button next to the "Reverse" button:

http://www.ourvictorianhouse.com/CraigsArcade/Roswell%2088201/Roswell.html

(scroll down first control panel).

Having that second button there automatically sets this game up for "button only" classics such as: SI, Asteroids, Moon Cresta, etc.

Having the joysticks selectable from 8 to 4 way does also open the door to playing a few two joystick control games....even though eventually I would like a dedicated "tank" control panel.

I have no intention of going with a two player 6 button set up.  I don't care for the newer "fighter" games.  Most of the games I play usually have 3 buttons or less (per player).

Anyway, thanx for the link, at least with some dimensions I can get a better idea of how to space things apart.


--- Quote from: severdhed on December 02, 2008, 12:50:14 pm ---I don't know how much help i will be..but here it goes:

Spacing:
(all measurements are from the centers of the holes drilled)
i based my control panel spacing on an x-arcade 2 player unit that i had.  the buttons are 1.5" apart, and my joysticks are 3" apart from the closest buttons.  this makes for a very comfortable feel when playing.  you could put more space between the sticks and buttons, that shouldn't make a difference.

--- End quote ---

I currently have a pre-made desktop arcade controller that was made by Red Octane and the buttons are a little too far for the standard 3 finger, thumb setup.  Perhaps that is why I got a few of these controllers on a deal from them.  I have to measure the spacing and compare it to your figures and the figures from the site that PMC pointed out to me.



--- Quote ---there are a few choices for joysticks that are switchable.  there is the UltiMarc MagStik, that you switch by pulling up on the stick and rotating it.  there is the omnistik prodigy, which has a mounting plate that is visible from the top of the panel, with a lever that you can move to switch it.  and then there is the Ultimarc Ultrastik 360.  it isn't switchable in the strictest sense of the word..it is an analog stick that uses custom maps to change i'ts functionality.  it can work as an 8 way, 4 way, 2 way, diagonal 4 way..just about anything you want.  it doesn't have a physical restrictor, but from what i have heard it is the most versatile stick you can get.

--- End quote ---

I have heard of some of these sticks before.  I DO have 4way/8way sticks, but they have a plate on the bottom that you would constantly have to open the panel to switch.  I have heard of the MagStick Pro which has the "pull up and turn" capability you mention.  The U-360 is the new animal on the block (for me that is).  I have come across it dozens of times here, but it does get me to wondering how well the electronic configuration works.  Sticks that have this method of restriction usually don't work out very well, (in the past that is).  Supposedly it has something to do with the physical feel of having the joystick only move up/down left/right.



--- Quote ---i haven't personally used any of these, but i have been trying to decide which one to get for some time now.  i'm leaning towards the ultrastick360, but not sure i want to drop that much cash on a stick right now.

--- End quote ---

Yeah, they are kind of pricey.  The MagSticks are much cheaper.



--- Quote ---i hope that was at least some help, i'm sure there are others here who have experience with these sticks that may be of more help.


--- End quote ---

Ok, thanx for the info.

Geo
pmc:
One reason I went with swappable panels is because I wanted to be able to swap in a panel with the authentic Defender layout. Of course, I never built the panel, but I will when I get some time. Swappable gives you flexibility and you never have to live with one-size-fits all.

-pmc
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