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Author Topic: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?  (Read 14025 times)

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Loopey1

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Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« on: November 03, 2008, 12:24:45 pm »
I have been tinkering with this for just a short wile now, and I know nothing concrete yet. I have a feeling it is a DOS based OS, but there is some interesting Security involved. Like the fact that none of the partitions seem to be able to be read, And using PTEdit shows that the Last partition is type 99? This is a OLD DCE376 logical drive that is a SCSI controller. But 1-3 show as unalocated. There HAS to be a way to gain access so we can see what this file structure is like. Any one still working on getting into this thing? I really want to know what makes this tick.

Hoopz

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2008, 12:53:28 pm »
Here is some info from the creator who will be along shortly to answer all your questions.      ;)

Hardware is Intel 810e or 815 chipset with integrated graphics.  CPU is Celeron or Pentium III.  Old versions were 866MHz, newer versions went up to 1.3GHz.  Hardware was IDE hard drive and CD drive.  Nothing special.  The I/O card had four functions, mapped the buttons to keyboard, map the trackball and spinners to mouse, provide audio amplification to the JAMMA connector, and provide video amplification for low and med res monitors.  Any I/O adapter will work so long as the keyboard mapping is correct. 

The system ran on a proprietary OS called Joshua that was a DOS / Linux derivative created by Joshua Technologies.  It uses a modified FAT system so you can't see it with any partition tools.  When installed, the system would lock the games to a unique machine id generated by using the CPU, NIC, Motherboard and HDD serial numbers.

Games are loaded via CD or USB Flash drive.  When by CD, an unlock code was required, generated by the machine id, game pack id, and serial number of the game pack.  When by Flash Drive, the flash drive would be married to the machine id, and then the games copied to the hard drive.  Then the flash drive could only be used on that machine id moving forward.

Ajax should have been named Warlord, not Swan.

First off, Hoopz is right.

Loopey1

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2008, 02:36:04 pm »
I heard that the OS was made by another person. Not Mr. Foley. I have searched all over to find info about the Company Joshua Technology LLC and Nothing comes up.

It uses a modified FAT system so you can't see it with any partition tools. well there HAS to be a way to read it. The only Partitions that I knew about that used both DOS an Linux structures were UMSDOS and VFAT, but even those had some listing with partition managers to tell you what they were.

 I am truly interested in finding out just what makes this so "secret" of an OS that there is NO info anywhere to be found.
I did some digging into the CD and I have been able to find that the pictures and logos use TARGA File Format. I did download a viewer and yes they all work. but as for the actual file layout, still working on that part. I want to SEE how this thing runs.

HaRuMaN

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2008, 02:38:12 pm »
<rubs the lamp>

David Foley

</rubs the lamp>

There.  He should be along shortly...   8)

Hoopz

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2008, 02:41:22 pm »
<rubs the lamp>

David Foley

</rubs the lamp>

There.  He should be along shortly...   8)
I think he has alerts set for his name, ultracade, and a few other terms.   >:D

 ;D
Ajax should have been named Warlord, not Swan.

First off, Hoopz is right.

Loopey1

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2008, 02:48:47 pm »
 ;D you guys are funny..... I think I need to research Mr. Foley and see why you all dislike him so.

Loopey1

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2008, 02:59:47 pm »
;D you guys are funny..... I think I need to research Mr. Foley and see why you all dislike him so.

OH!!! nevermind, I found LOTS!!! OMG ???


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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2008, 05:02:38 pm »
FATX anyone?
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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2008, 06:13:11 pm »

I really want to know what makes this tick.


Why bother?

Old, but not obsolete.

Loopey1

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2008, 11:20:01 pm »
because its there, thats why. and i want to know.
I was thinking FATX myself.
using superFDISK that program shows the HHD as Primary DOS FAT32EXT partition.

I had contact with someone a while ago that said that the Partition table was a custom variant of FAT16.
So timeline back to 1999 or so when this first came out, what OSes were there that used FAT16.
I was also informed that this OS is a DOS based or a DOS variation. So with that in mind, and leaning tward an open source APP cuz who wants to pay for a license, hows a custom OpenDOS Kernel sound? Might be...... But as I said I just started digging, so this is all speculation.
What is needed is a decompiler, for the Joshua.sys file, that really is the only file needed to "boot" so there must be some clue there.

Loopey1

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2008, 11:21:48 pm »
$1 on this guy being a sock puppet. 

Who's in?


Was that aimed at me?? that hurt if it was.

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2008, 12:03:17 am »
$1 on this guy being a sock puppet. 

Who's in?


Was that aimed at me?? that hurt if it was.

dont feel bad. foley seemed to like using different aliases, minions etc. if pinball had just looked your profile, hed have seen youve been a member since march, with narry a mention of anything foley related...


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Loopey1

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2008, 12:26:12 am »
I usually just lurk, and absorb any info I need by reading. but at times like this I think more than just me would make this process of figuring out this OS easier.
and, to the one who said why bother. Look at it like this. If you have ever seen this OS running you would know how fluid it is. Yes is is only made for one or two chipsets. but this thing boots in like one second flat. there is NO wait to load this or that, just BAM its running. Now just suppose that this IS just a Stripped down DOS Kernel with only the needed driver support, just think of what could be done as far as custom DMAME os'es or something like that. once you figure out how it works, the next step would be to "clone" that OS but add newer Drivers specific to your board only. and..... again stupid fast boot / load times.

I am just thinking outloud here, mind you one of the main reasons is to just see what it actually is. is it DOS or FreeBSD, Linux, ????
If anyone has heard of Quantum3D and know some of the things these people have done, one thing you might find interesting is that they had there own OS also, called SapphireOS. I think that Joshua is a tweeked version of that OS. But I have not been able to track down a copy of that to compair t to. I will be calling them again and try to find someone that knows about that OS. Last time it was the old, man that is OLD and unsupported stuff you have there story.  :banghead:

ChadTower

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2008, 09:15:16 am »

I say support the guy digging into it.  Tell me you guys wouldn't find it hiliarious if he uncovered license violations in the product.

HaRuMaN

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2008, 09:18:28 am »
like having MAME inside?   ;D

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2008, 09:23:05 am »
like having MAME inside?   ;D

Or DOS... or Linux... or someone else's freeware app... the way he distributed it, he was pretty much out of luck for open source at all, wasn't he? 

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2008, 04:42:20 pm »
You can use Linux in certain commercial ventures.

I think it could also HPFS also a derivative of FAT, a licensed version of NTFS, or FreeDOS.
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Loopey1

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2008, 06:53:33 pm »
well I can say I am sure that this is a FAT16 partition. I am tinkering with winhex looking through the CD structure and it boots as fat12 then formats to fat16. I dumped a text file with some information in it to my desktop, and just started reading.

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2008, 09:22:22 pm »


dont feel bad. foley seemed to like using different aliases, minions etc. if pinball had just looked your profile, hed have seen youve been a member since march, with narry a mention of anything foley related...

You can't be paranoid enough.
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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2008, 03:33:31 pm »

I say support the guy digging into it.  Tell me you guys wouldn't find it hiliarious if he uncovered license violations in the product.

DF probably gonna try to stop/sue him before the OP find out its MAME :)
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lkench

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2008, 08:31:20 pm »
Given the name of it,probably the only right move is to never play....and probably yet another reason this foley guy could get sued..and probably the best way to go after him as the movie studios really like to defend their intellectual property...

Sorry, it was on TV recently(WarGamesthat is, just in case you didn't get the reference)...

-lkench

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2008, 10:57:44 am »
this is interesting. i still run dos. can you run joshua os in a virtual machine? can you run 3rd party dos apps/games in it? what kind of mame is running in it and how does it interface to the video hardware? what sound card/drivers is it using?

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2008, 12:26:19 pm »
Yeah, it could be using DOS. It could also be using "PC DOS". So what? Looking at code in a system is not going to reveal the licensing agreements between Ultracade and the OS provider.  :P
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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2008, 01:13:59 pm »
So what? Looking at code in a system is not going to reveal the licensing agreements between Ultracade and the OS provider.  :P

No it won't ... but doesn't that information have to be disclosed with the product being sold?
At least you would THINK that the OS provider would want it to be. (advertising)

Sorry, but I haven't really looked at their product as I already think it's overly priced considering all the other options openly available.
Not a technician . . . . just a DIY'er.

ChadTower

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2008, 02:26:43 pm »
No it won't ... but doesn't that information have to be disclosed with the product being sold?
At least you would THINK that the OS provider would want it to be. (advertising)

Doesn't have to be in a product that is considered a closed system.  Tivo certainly doesn't throw the Linux penguin on its marketing materials.  Some vendors specifically encapsulate details like that to fight against reverse engineering.

Looking at the code may not reveal the licenses but it could expose certain violations with given OS that have known license requirements.

Loopey1

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2008, 02:44:45 pm »
So, anyone here a Programmer? I have stumbled across a few things, decoded the TTF files and the WAV files but the OS part is a all in one type sys file.

For one of the Questions posted above. A VM will only Boot to the Kernel not to the OS.  :( The OS is locked to 2 Specific Chipsets, the I810E and the I815. So to make that work, the VM needs to be Emulating one of those Chipsets.

There are only a few files, that I know of that are basically system files. Joshua.sys, ultra.drv are the Base boot / run files. Then there is the Ultra.jex, this is the Main Program file.I know next to nothing about JEX files so I am stuck on that one. I do know that it is a type of Compressed EXE file but that is about it.
The File system is being a pain. looking through the files in a hex editor, there is No Partition tables at all. everything is 00. I have tried running a FAT file structure on a small HHD, and just copying the base files from the CD, it Does Boot to a point but not fully, yet.  There is a LOT of security in this thing, so without knowing what / how it was made it is going to be slow going as I have to hit and miss everything.
 I am now looking for information on what "encryption" techniques were around in the late 90's that would "hide" the partition tables and file structures. completely. once that is known more can be done to open this up and look inside.
One thing to note. is if anyone has this OS disk. look in the media folder, and look into the "Credits" mp4 file. maybe finding one of those people might lead somewhere. Its a long list. Someone has to have a big mouth.

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2008, 03:22:54 pm »

Heh, look for dudes he may have laid off in the past couple years.   ;D

Sounds almost like it's time to start sniffing bus lines on the actual hardware.

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2008, 08:33:45 am »
Tivo certainly doesn't throw the Linux penguin on its marketing materials.

No, but there was a mention in the owners manual about 'parts of the software running on an open source operating system.'

Kinda narrowed it down.
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Loopey1

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2008, 09:19:55 am »
Well, I am still plugging away on this. I actually spoke to the OS creator,  Adrian Thewlis, yesterday. This is what I got. The OS was a completely Scratch Built OS, it was not based on anything, I am sorry I can not be any more help, but this OS is still used by the Military in some of there embedded devices.  So back to digging. I hope to call him again, and maybe get something out of him.

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2008, 09:21:49 am »
Well, I am still plugging away on this. I actually spoke to the OS creator,  Adrian Thewlis, yesterday. This is what I got. The OS was a completely Scratch Built OS, it was not based on anything, I am sorry I can not be any more help, but this OS is still used by the Military in some of there embedded devices.  So back to digging. I hope to call him again, and maybe get something out of him.

I find it hard to believe that a OS used in military systems would be allowed in freely sold commercial devices. 

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2008, 10:42:38 am »
I tried to find a picture of Egon Spengler reading his PKE meter for a BS joke... but for some reason Google popped this up instead.


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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2008, 05:05:28 pm »
Well, as I understand it, now I may be wrong, but this OS is supposedly the next generation SapphireOS that Quantum 3D was designing. This was to be the software used in there Simulation games ect... But I hardly think that it would be considered a National secret or anything. But as Q3D sold off all of its holdings to another company later, this was now a ready made game OS. SapphireOS was also specifically designed for the Intel 810E chipset in the Quicksilver and GuicksilverII pc's. I am still trying to track down any information on the SapphireOS I can get but so far nothing of substance.

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2008, 06:58:26 pm »
Well, I am still plugging away on this. I actually spoke to the OS creator,  Adrian Thewlis, yesterday. This is what I got. The OS was a completely Scratch Built OS, it was not based on anything, I am sorry I can not be any more help, but this OS is still used by the Military in some of there embedded devices.  So back to digging. I hope to call him again, and maybe get something out of him.

I find it hard to believe that a OS used in military systems would be allowed in freely sold commercial devices. 

I find it hard to believe that after Wargames the gov't would use an OS named Joshua.
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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2008, 07:50:28 pm »
I find it hard to believe a "scratch built" OS of any kind made it's way into an Ultracade of all things.
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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2008, 09:19:01 pm »
I find it hard to believe that a certain someone has avoided posting here so far.  I know he's had to have read it since his alerts were triggered so early....

 :gobama :gobama :gobama :gobama :gobama :gobama
Ajax should have been named Warlord, not Swan.

First off, Hoopz is right.

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2008, 09:36:40 pm »

Why would he do that?  He's watching the thread and waiting for the critical moment when the DRM has been breached.  If he posts here dude goes underground and Foley never knows when his stuff is cracked.

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2008, 11:55:07 am »
First of all, I don't care if you crack it or not.  I sold UltraCade Technologies over two years ago and have not been involved in the system ever since.  It's a dead product.  Global VR discontinued the UltraCade and Arcade Legends product lines.  They renamed it to Global Arcade Classics, but then they laid off the team and did not renew a bunch of the licenses.  I no longer have any involvement with the product or its technology.  Just so you have the facts straight, here is a quick overview of the history.  I built a 6502 emulator project in college, and that became the basis of some classic emulation projects that I was working on in the late 80's and early 90's.  My first product was a joust emulator that ran on the Sega Genesis.  We then built a Joust game for the PC, and a network playable version of Joust called NetJoust.  During this time, I had a programmer from Australia that worked with me, Mark Morris.  In 1998, I sold HyperWare to Quantum3D and joined there as the VP of Engineering.  I was chartered with increasing the company's involvement in the arcade industry.  We first set out to enhance the PC product line to supply other vendors with an Intel based platform.  We built and patented the Quicksilver II system and then the Graphite system.  We built 3dFX based video cards for the arcade industry as well as custom I/O cards.  We supplied companies including Sega, Atari & Midway with systems.  I was also given the green light on my pet project, the emulation multi-game system.  At the time, I contacted Mark Morris who had partnered with countryman Adrian Thewlis.  They had started a company called Sapphire Operating Systems building a small, purpose built OS for embedded applications on the Intel platform.  I originally contracted them to build the game as they both had experience in the console market and had a fast loading OS that seemed like a good solution for coin-op.  The first product iteration was called Lucky 8, and ran on the Sapphire OS.  This product was only demonstrated, but never shipped.  Mark and Adrian parted ways, and Adrian started a new company called Joshua Technology, and the OS became the Joshua OS.  Over the years we contracted with Adrian to work on enhancing the OS to add new features and hired him as well to do contract programming on the UltraCade product.    The OS was very purpose built, and only had the most essential of features in order to keep it small and fast.  It supported several iterations of the Intel chipset family, including the 810, 815 and later the 845.  Adrian did some work with the Via chipsets, but we could never get the technical information needed to fully support it.  He also did some work wiht a few other graphics chips.  Besides the UltraCade platform, which ran solely on the Joshua Operating System, Adrian also was contracted by a company that was doing a visual device that was fitted to tanks for spotting land mines.  The indeed used the Joshua OS and originally used Graphite computers in testing.  This product was deployed by the US Military and Adrian even went into the field to see it implemented. 

Good luck cracking it.  You won't get any technical information from me or Adrian but you won't get any legal ramifications from me as I don't have any interest in the product, however, you are violating the DMCA by cracking it, so Adiran could come down on the forums if he were paying attention as he is the owner of the OS, I merely licensed it from him.

Finally, as for me using alias' in the forums, everyone knows that to be untrue.  I've always been here, and used my real name.  Even when the storm of misinformation about MAME went on, I didn't hide under an alias.  Yes, I watch the forums, and when I want to post, I post under my real name.

ark_ader

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2008, 01:05:15 pm »
HarumaN:  I hope you don't have any blisters from rubbing that lamp.  ;D

You have to credit Dave for telling his story on the subject.

As for the OP regarding cracking the OS, just divert your efforts into building a cab.  That way we get to see a cool cab, and you won't get into any legal bother.  :cheers:
Thank God I am me.

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2008, 03:43:09 pm »
I'd split that initial "paragraph" into something a little easier to read.  :o
Ajax should have been named Warlord, not Swan.

First off, Hoopz is right.

Loopey1

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Re: Has anyone ever figured out the Joshua OS from Ultracade?
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2008, 05:20:55 pm »
I thank you Mr. Foley for replying to this thread, Like I have said in the beginning of this topic. This OS fascinates me. Sleek Simple and as you said FAST as hell. I have NO intentions of cloning or trying to sell any part of this OS ect... I just want to see how it works. But as I said, there is so much Misinformation about what it actually is, that it is hard to sort fact from fiction. I know you said that you will not provide any tech info. and I respect your position. But, there has to be something you can share, that will not compromise your relationship with the creator. After all, you even said "I sold UltraCade Technologies over two years ago and have not been involved in the system ever since.  It's a dead product"
  I do hope you can share some stuff that will help.
Again, thank you for posting.

  
 

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