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Pinball Plunger and Circuit
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javeryh:
Randy - if you made an out of the box solution for a pinball plunger I'm willing to bet a lot of us would buy it...  just an idea...
RandyT:

--- Quote from: javeryh on October 09, 2008, 01:39:00 pm ---Randy - if you made an out of the box solution for a pinball plunger I'm willing to bet a lot of us would buy it...  just an idea...

--- End quote ---

I've been mulling this for a long while.  I have a few ideas, unfortunately, non of them "cheap".  The one thing I want to avoid is an expensive solution that has little support, which is why I asked the question above.

So does anyone know if there is a standardized method in the most common pin apps to get a variable plunger action?

RandyT
Tim N.:

--- Quote from: RandyT on October 09, 2008, 12:38:26 pm ---
--- Quote from: Dazz on October 09, 2008, 08:08:26 am ---Honestly, the optical is the best way to go if you are going to use a real plunger...  I don't see how it is overkill, I see how it is more of a necessity if you want to have a real plunger.  I have seen how people pull my plunger and let it go just to do so.  Without anything mechanical to worry about I couldn't care less.  Anything mechanical is going to wear out and hitting a button hard in the same spot over and over will eventually break it.  The optical just makes more sense in this case...

--- End quote ---

Sorry, this assertion just isn't grounded in fact.  A normal arcade pushbutton was designed for more abuse than the spring on a pinball plunger will dish out.  It's not hard to find buttons over 20 years old that have not only survived, but show no signs of even weakening.  The pin plunger also has a nice soft, compressible tip to help absorb some of the shock. 

I'm not saying that the optical solution isn't a good one, just that it's not necessary to get to the same destination.  But if going this route, I would suggest some sort of stop to avoid the "ain't no ball in the chute" spring oscillation.  This can be as simple a block of wood at the end of the travel, with or without something additional to cushion the impact than the already cushioned tip on the plunger.


--- Quote ---The optimal setup, just shy of having a real machine, would be what I was originally going to do using a track with a real pinball inside it.

--- End quote ---

In all actuality, none of this is optimal for a pinball plunger as the function is purely "cosmetic".  For all of this extra effort, one should realize a gameplay benefit, but this type of setup offers no more control than the original simple switch.  So that brings me to a question;  what method is supported in pinball games for plunger position other than a simple digital switch?  Anything?  I mean, a very interesting circuit can still be devised even if this is the only method available, but there would be less "realism".

RandyT

--- End quote ---

Exactly.... I really don't know why people are so fascinated by adding a plunger onto their cab other than cosmetics... Plunging- regardless of opto, leaf, micro, whatever, is still determined by length of time a switch is activated in VP, so it isn't going to really feel real (other than pulling on a plunger)... The real solution would be something in regards to a string of 8-12 optos in which the plunger pulled back to certain depths would trigger the appropriate strength depending on the last opto interrupted (or open, or whatever)... When I did my multipin I even opted away from the plunger on purpose (went with a Williams launch button) as games like Jurassic Park, Lethal Weapon, etc rely on a button instead of a plunger for in game functions (not just launching a ball) that would be impossible with a plunger as a substitute...
mountain:

--- Quote from: Tim N. on October 09, 2008, 02:58:39 pm ---Exactly.... I really don't know why people are so fascinated by adding a plunger onto their cab other than cosmetics... Plunging- regardless of opto, leaf, micro, whatever, is still determined by length of time a switch is activated in VP, so it isn't going to really feel real (other than pulling on a plunger)... The real solution would be something in regards to a string of 8-12 optos in which the plunger pulled back to certain depths would trigger the appropriate strength depending on the last opto interrupted (or open, or whatever)... When I did my multipin I even opted away from the plunger on purpose (went with a Williams launch button) as games like Jurassic Park, Lethal Weapon, etc rely on a button instead of a plunger for in game functions (not just launching a ball) that would be impossible with a plunger as a substitute...

--- End quote ---

I don't know if I would call it a fascination, but I really like my plunger/optoswitch setup. It's a novelty piece. The plunger automatically grabs attention, sparks conversations, and encourages game play with visitors.

The reason for having it goes along the same lines as putting the buttons on the side of the control panel. You could just map the buttons from P1 and P2, but what fun is that? When playing VP, with the simulated table down in front of me, my hands and fingers in the basic pinball position, I am getting close to the real deal. The plunger just takes it a little closer. That's the whole point of these homemade machines, at least for me; arcade games as well as pinball games.
Tim N.:

--- Quote from: mountain on October 09, 2008, 04:33:51 pm ---
--- Quote from: Tim N. on October 09, 2008, 02:58:39 pm ---Exactly.... I really don't know why people are so fascinated by adding a plunger onto their cab other than cosmetics... Plunging- regardless of opto, leaf, micro, whatever, is still determined by length of time a switch is activated in VP, so it isn't going to really feel real (other than pulling on a plunger)... The real solution would be something in regards to a string of 8-12 optos in which the plunger pulled back to certain depths would trigger the appropriate strength depending on the last opto interrupted (or open, or whatever)... When I did my multipin I even opted away from the plunger on purpose (went with a Williams launch button) as games like Jurassic Park, Lethal Weapon, etc rely on a button instead of a plunger for in game functions (not just launching a ball) that would be impossible with a plunger as a substitute...

--- End quote ---

I don't know if I would call it a fascination, but I really like my plunger/optoswitch setup. It's a novelty piece. The plunger automatically grabs attention, sparks conversations, and encourages game play with visitors.

The reason for having it goes along the same lines as putting the buttons on the side of the control panel. You could just map the buttons from P1 and P2, but what fun is that? When playing VP, with the simulated table down in front of me, my hands and fingers in the basic pinball position, I am getting close to the real deal. The plunger just takes it a little closer. That's the whole point of these homemade machines, at least for me; arcade games as well as pinball games.

--- End quote ---
I may have not been clear, I totally get what you are saying and agree with everything you say... It is cool to see a plunger and play pinball on mame cabs, especially when you can get more people involved... My comments are geared more towards people that say that the plunger should be added on to give VP an authentic feel when it really doesn't at all..... The only thing similar is that you are pulling on something.... A plunger that doesn't really work like a plunger can be a lot of work for it's limited/inaccurate function... I am curious to see how many people that added plunger added any kind of nudge mechanisms to their project too, as the nudge mechs are a little more realistic than the plunger....

I too am like yourself, I just want people to enjoy everything you can provide them.... I think the whole hobby is fun and every different idea is great, just in the plunger example it truly is a form over function feature.....
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