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RandyT:

--- Quote from: Tim N. on October 17, 2008, 03:26:38 pm ---Oops.... I forgot that he doesn't use a button hole design, that is Ultimarc's... Depending on the mounting specs, I am still very willing to do this as the reality is that I would mount it, be dissapointed with any holes it may leave in my control panel, and just purchase it outright :)

--- End quote ---

No, that's GGG's (Patent pending :) )  First, and still used with our TurboTwist2 spinner.  The TTHL mounting is more involved, but nearly as small a footprint. 

RandyT

Tim N.:

--- Quote from: RandyT on October 17, 2008, 03:32:30 pm ---
--- Quote from: Tim N. on October 17, 2008, 03:26:38 pm ---Oops.... I forgot that he doesn't use a button hole design, that is Ultimarc's... Depending on the mounting specs, I am still very willing to do this as the reality is that I would mount it, be dissapointed with any holes it may leave in my control panel, and just purchase it outright :)

--- End quote ---

No, that's GGG's :).  First, and still used with our TurboTwist2 spinner.  The TTHL mounting is more involved, but nearly as small a footprint. 

RandyT



--- End quote ---
;D ... Thanks, all these spinners are making my thoughts spin...
shmokes:

--- Quote from: RandyT on October 17, 2008, 02:53:28 pm ---
No attorney in his right mind would make an argument like the one above without something very specific to show that it indeed applies to a given situation. 


--- End quote ---

Heh . . . you at least got me on my claim that I wouldn't respond.  The attorney thing was just irresistible.  

Once again, you're wrong.  Attorneys can and must operate on presumptions like this all the time.  For example, if your attorney prepares a will for you and you want to reward her lifelong service to you by leaving her something in the will, the gift fails automatically because of the presumption of fraud or undue influence.  The conflict of interest creates the presumption that the gift is suspect.  If a person confesses to a crime, that confession CANNOT be introduced into evidence against his alleged partners in crime because we operate on the presumption that he has a conflict of interest (mitigating his own punishment by cooperating with police or simply falsely exaggerating the role played by others while minimizing his own).  We simply presume that the evidence is not credible.

And, of course, there's just real life.  As I said before, when T-Mobile's CEO says that T-Mobile's is the most reliable service you don't need to research everything the guy has said to see how well it comports with the truth.  You just take it for what it's worth -- not that much.  His conflict of interest makes his statements presumptively unreliable.  

The primary difference between the T-Mobile CEO and you is that when he talks about his competitors you don't get the subtle impression that he'd like nothing more than for them and their families to be crushed by a meteor.   :laugh2:

RandyT:

--- Quote from: shmokes on October 17, 2008, 03:36:54 pm ---Once again, you're wrong.  Attorneys can and must operate on presumptions like this all the time.

--- End quote ---

A presumption is just that until you have evidence to corroborate it.  You still haven't shown that, and until you do, you can talk around the words all you like.  It isn't making your case  ;)

BTW, can we talk about spinners now?

RandyT
shmokes:

--- Quote from: RandyT on October 17, 2008, 03:43:55 pm ---
A presumption is just that until you have evidence to corroborate it.  You still haven't shown that, and until you do, you can talk around the words all you like.  It isn't making your case  ;)


--- End quote ---

Sigh . . . once again, you are wrong, Randy.  Perhaps you're thinking of an assumption which is not necessarily the same thing as a presumption.  At best a presumption stands until you have evidence to disprove it.  Take the supposed "presumption of innocence" for example.  You don't have to prove your innocence to be considered innocent.  The other person has to prove your guilt.

In fact, though, many presumptions are irrebuttable, meaning that the presumption is so strong that the court won't even allow any evidence on the matter to prove or disprove the issue.  The gift-to-will-drafting-lawyer is one of those, I think.

So, at best, the presumption of unreliability created by your conflict of interest shifts the burden of proof to you to prove that you do not allow the opinions you express to be affected by your financial interest in your products.  Realistically, though, the presumption simply has to stand because that's a burden you couldn't possibly carry.
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