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Push/ Pull Spinners

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erictrumpet:

I'll chime in with my opinion on this rubbing noise issue:
I find it physically impossible to push/pull AND spin simultaneously... I literally need to grasp the knob with one hand and pull (or push) it, then with the other hand turn it - that's the only way I can make that rubbing noise.
By the time Kevin Steele wrote his Retroblast review of the Apache, I had already been enjoying mine for a couple of weeks (I was an early adopter :) ) and I had no idea what he was talking about until I tried to force it, in the way I just described. David at Apache in his post above is being generous when he says it is not an issue "in most gameplay situations" - the truth is, it is NEVER an issue.
I think Kevin only mentioned this "flaw" in his review because there is virtually nothing negative to say about the Blackhawk otherwise.

Randy clings to the resolution issue because it is the only thing that is unique to his unit, but the arguable benefits, scientifically quantifiable or not, simply do not outweigh the other much more important benefits of a solidly built "lifetime" piece of arcade hardware. (Personal opinion of course.)

I will also address one other issue that has come up - the matter of footprint - the Apache chassis is about 3 inches square. That means the chassis extends beyond the footprint of the knob by about an inch in any direction. Unless you are planning to mount a joystick or button within one inch of your spinner knob, you will encounter no difficulties whatsoever with the size of this piece of gear. It is no larger than a typical joystick under the panel.

Also, a lot of people seem to think spinners that mount in button holes are the cat's pajamas. Is it really that much more difficult to drill a 1/4-inch hole with a regular drill bit for a traditional spinner shaft than to drill a full-sized button hole with your forstner bit or hole saw? I'd wager that the former is actually easier than the latter. But I guess it's a wash. It certainly isn't a reason to buy one spinner over another, in my opinion.

And I see in Dave's post above about a $50 spinner trade-in! He wasn't offering that when I ordered mine. I might trade in my old Oscar Vortex (which has a push-kit, but no pull capability) and get a second Blackhawk - I have both spinners on my panel and I use the push button all the time, it would be nice for both of my spinners to have the push AND the pull. They work good as "hidden" admin buttons in non-spinner games, for example. And I can drop the second Blackhawk right into the existing 1/4-inch hole where my Vortex is currently mounted... :)

By the way although I currently have only one Blackhawk but two spinners, I have two Apache DoT knobs. These knobs are AWESOME. Okay sorry I am starting to sound like a paid commercial advertisement for Apache... :) I just happen to really love this spinner... :)

Eric.



Visitor Q:

I certainly appreciate your opinion and taking the time to write all that. I think you are right, either one seems to be about the same as the other. It does not really seem like either would be a bad purchase but there are a few key issues here that I am seeing.

I respect the fact that David has addressed all my concerns here even the negative ones.

If RetroBlast is indeed a trusted site, their review has spelled it out clearly for me; the Apache is the spinner to beat!

Unfortunately I have search and can not find any reviews on the TurboTwist Push/ Pull and yes, I have looked… Infact I don’t even think anyone has chimed in here to say that they even own one as of yet.

What does worry me is that I have asked Randy a simple question about 3 times on this site as well as sending him and email, no reply. I understand that he is busy, we all are but I cannot even place any order with him until he answers my question. The worst thing about it is he has been on here several times since I have asked him to answer my question and seems to avoid it all together.  :dunno

To me, customer service goes along way and that is not to say anything bad about either company as I have yet to deal with them directly with them and their product other than these few questions.


RandyT:


--- Quote from: erictrumpet on October 09, 2008, 12:09:30 pm ---Randy clings to the resolution issue because it is the only thing that is unique to his unit, but the arguable benefits, scientifically quantifiable or not, simply do not outweigh the other much more important benefits of a solidly built "lifetime" piece of arcade hardware. (Personal opinion of course.)

--- End quote ---

From my post above, Eric seems to fit into about 3 of those lettered items.  Personal opinion, of course ;)  There's a reason why Ultimarc followed our lead on the resolution thing.  And, Eric, as you obviously don't own both, can you offer an explanation as to how it is that you feel qualified to comment on the construction or durability of the TTHL?


--- Quote from: Visitor Q on October 09, 2008, 12:31:52 pm ---Unfortunately I have search and can not find any reviews on the TurboTwist Push/ Pull and yes, I have looked… Infact I don’t even think anyone has chimed in here to say that they even own one as of yet.

What does worry me is that I have asked Randy a simple question about 3 times on this site as well as sending him and email, no reply. I understand that he is busy, we all are but I cannot even place any order with him until he answers my question. The worst thing about it is he has been on here several times since I have asked him to answer my question and seems to avoid it all together.  :dunno

To me, customer service goes along way and that is not to say anything bad about either company as I have yet to deal with them directly with them and their product other than these few questions.


--- End quote ---

Here's one you may have missed.  It's translated, but you should be able to figure out what's going on.  Since this guy posted, I have been having difficulty keeping up with the orders for them.  I guess I should send him some chocolates or something.  :D

Your question was a very general one that looked as though it was answered several times over in this thread, and I opted to post here so that others would also see my reply.  But to be quite honest, folks who come to me with a question like "why should I buy your product instead of X" have, almost always, already made up their minds and it results in nothing more than a big waste of my time.  Time that is needed for filling orders, supporting current customers, purchasing inventory, R&D, etc...  To be quite honest, you aren't doing yourself any favors by asking the vendor a question like this.  All you are likely to get is a "hard sell" aimed at getting another piece off of his shelf.  Take the time to do the research, understand what is being talked about, and to a lesser extent, read what people have to say about the items in question.  Keep in mind that most people absolutely love the thing that they happen to own at the time and very few ever do objective comparisons.  But regardless of this fact, there is usually a good amount of real info in there that you can consider when making your purchase.  It should just be filtered by the overall knowledge you have gained from all of your sources.

Good luck and I hope you end up choosing the unit that is the right one for your needs.

RandyT


u_rebelscum:


--- Quote from: erictrumpet on October 09, 2008, 12:09:30 pm ---I'll chime in with my opinion on this rubbing noise issue:
I find it physically impossible to push/pull AND spin simultaneously... I literally need to grasp the knob with one hand and pull (or push) it, then with the other hand turn it...

--- End quote ---

Is this a fault of the spinner or the operator?  I ask because Forgotten Worlds requires spin while pressed, and FW is the major reason I'd get a push or push/pull spinner.  I wouldn't care about sound, but spinning while pressed is a requirement for me.

Sorry, but I'm going to  :soapbox:
OP, IMO two separate reviews, each one individual product, are usually more a contest of better writing than of the actual products.  IMO, one review on both the products shows a much better comparison than half a dozen on one and six on the other.  However, one review on both still can be too biased or look at different features than what matters to me, for myself to take at face value.  And IMO all the reviews in the world isn't as good as personal hands on.  These are my opinion for all reviews I look at, be it a spinner or five figure new car.

In the past, I've loved stuff others hated, prefer one over another while others are the reverse, and gotten stuff I didn't like based on others preferences.

Because of all the above, I have gotten very reluctant to recommend a product I like or even love over an other if I don't have that other product.  I could have made a great choice, but I have no way to say the other wasn't a better choice.

Back to a comparison: I have a TT2 and an Oscar Push/Pull Tron remake spinner (think high quality ATT pre-Apache push/pull), plus about half a dozen other spinners (but not the TT-HL nor Apache).  The TT2 is great for arkanoid due to the high res, the Oscar Push/Pull excellent for FW but is not up to snuff for arkanoid for me.  From what I have, I'd deduce the Apache is not good enough for me to play arkanoid also, but I don't know how well either will do with FW (although it sounds like the Apache won't work for that from what eric said).

Not that I'm saying don't get Apache; it sounds like a great product for most people.  I'm saying:
Rank the games that matter to you,
rank the features that matter to you, and
then make your decision based on your values, not on how loud the different fans/sellers hype/dis one product vs the other.

Okay off my soap box....

erictrumpet:

Rebelscum I've played Forgotten Worlds and I don't see how it works any differently than, say, Discs of Tron with regard to pushing/pulling while simultaneously turning the wheel. Like DoT, you push or pull it - like a button - a quick bump down, or tug up - you don't push/pull and HOLD, and then while holding the "button," also turn (which as I said above is not physically possible as far as I can tell). Now, do you hit/tug the push/pull when the spinner is in motion? Sure, but this is only a fraction of a second - and creates no rubbing noise. Only sustained pushing/pulling with simultaneous turning of the knob (an awkward two-handed maneuver) does it. Pardon my lack of familiarity with Forgotten Worlds - I play it, but it's not a personal favorite - perhaps I am just not playing the game right! :)
Also - I agree completely on reviews and opinions being just that. Personal experience and subjective conclusions. But that's what this board is all about - sharing personal opinions to help people make an informed choice. For my money the Apache has been great. As they say, your mileage may vary - but I doubt it would vary much! It's a great product (as are many products out there)!

Eric.


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