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Push/ Pull Spinners
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Visitor Q:

--- Quote from: Hoopz on October 08, 2008, 11:34:50 am ---
--- Quote from: Tim N. on October 08, 2008, 11:07:35 am ---In the links provided to you, it is important to note that "whynotpizza" is actually the owner/designer of Apache Controls and his opinion is obviously biased towards his product....

--- End quote ---
I don't think this is the case.  They both are named David but the owner of Apache Controls posts under apachecontrols.  I think whynotpizza is a member like us (non vendor).  

--- End quote ---

Yeah, I saw that as well but you never know...

Well I invite any of those owners to tell me why I should buy their product over the other.
Hoopz:

--- Quote from: Visitor Q on October 08, 2008, 11:32:17 am ---
--- Quote from: Hoopz on October 08, 2008, 11:03:57 am ---Are you planning on playing Arkanoid or any spinner games that require a high resolution?

--- End quote ---

I want to use this for all mame games that use a spinner.

--- End quote ---
I understand that.  I think the point that you are missing and that multiple people are trying to make is that the spinner resolution does matter depending on the games you want to play (spinner games played with the spinner).  RandyT's spinner has a higher resolution than the Apache spinner and it directly relates to how you play some games (spinner games with the spinner).  It doesn't affect ALL games (spinner games with the spinner) though.  

That's why I specifically asked about Arkanoid (spinner game that can be played with a spinner).  Most every thread talking about this game (spinner game played with a spinner) discusses the need for a high resolution spinner and what happens when you play it (it being Arkanoid which is a spinner game played with a spinner) without a high resolution spinner.

I don't have a dog in this fight (Michael Vick!  >:D) so I don't have a preference on which one you use.  However, I do think it's a good idea that you understand the differences between the two before deciding on one.  The question of which is better is highly subjective in terms of feel, sound, playing etc as the spinners share many attributes.  Looking at the differences between the two may help you decide which to purchase.
Tim N.:

--- Quote from: Hoopz on October 08, 2008, 11:34:50 am ---
--- Quote from: Tim N. on October 08, 2008, 11:07:35 am ---In the links provided to you, it is important to note that "whynotpizza" is actually the owner/designer of Apache Controls and his opinion is obviously biased towards his product....

--- End quote ---
I don't think this is the case.  They both are named David but the owner of Apache Controls posts under apachecontrols.  I think whynotpizza is a member like us (non vendor).  

--- End quote ---

Trust me... it IS the case... That being said, David seems to be a great guy and shouldn't need to pump product "third party"
Visitor Q:

--- Quote from: Hoopz on October 08, 2008, 11:41:06 am ---
--- Quote from: Visitor Q on October 08, 2008, 11:32:17 am ---
--- Quote from: Hoopz on October 08, 2008, 11:03:57 am ---Are you planning on playing Arkanoid or any spinner games that require a high resolution?

--- End quote ---

I want to use this for all mame games that use a spinner.

--- End quote ---
I understand that.  I think the point that you are missing and that multiple people are trying to make is that the spinner resolution does matter depending on the games you want to play (spinner games played with the spinner).  RandyT's spinner has a higher resolution than the Apache spinner and it directly relates to how you play some games (spinner games with the spinner).  It doesn't affect ALL games (spinner games with the spinner) though.  

That's why I specifically asked about Arkanoid (spinner game that can be played with a spinner).  Most every thread talking about this game (spinner game played with a spinner) discusses the need for a high resolution spinner and what happens when you play it (it being Arkanoid which is a spinner game played with a spinner) without a high resolution spinner.

I don't have a dog in this fight (Michael Vick!  >:D) so I don't have a preference on which one you use.  However, I do think it's a good idea that you understand the differences between the two before deciding on one.  The question of which is better is highly subjective in terms of feel, sound, playing etc as the spinners share many attributes.  Looking at the differences between the two may help you decide which to purchase.

--- End quote ---

Well RetroBlast! seems like they know what they are talking about and here is some highlights from that review.

"Right out of the box it worked perfectly with every MAME game I threw at it, and even better, the sensitivity and responsiveness of the spinner felt spot-on. I didn’t have to adjust a single game, a rarity when I’ve done spinner testing. The spinner is a 48-tooth design, which means that it theoretically has less sensitivity than some of the other spinners on the market, but I saw nothing during gameplay that indicated this. In fact, I got some of my highest scores on Tempest ever with this spinner."

"One humorous thing I saw was with this spinner was what I would call the first "perfect backspin" that I have ever seen in spinner testing. Basically, when you really crank up MAME's spinner sensitivity settings, the Blackhawk, like all other spinners, will eventually exhibit backspin. However, in the case of the Blackhawk, the backspin was perfectly consistent: spin left, the cursor will go right. Spin right, the cursor goes left. No stopping, back-tracking, or stuttering — it just reversed orientation. A perfect backspin, so to speak."

I am just going on here by what I have read so by all means if the above does not sound right or that is not a trusted site, please let me know.


Tim N.:

--- Quote from: Visitor Q on October 08, 2008, 11:36:07 am ---
--- Quote from: Tim N. on October 08, 2008, 11:07:35 am ---
--- Quote from: Visitor Q on October 08, 2008, 10:30:19 am ---After reading this review, it would seem that the one from Blackhawk is an excellent choice.

http://www.retroblast.com/20060704171/Hardware/RetroBlast-Review-The-Blackhawk-Spinner-by-Apache-Controls.php

--- End quote ---

The Blackhawk is an excellent choice. Ironically I was just talking to Randy yesterday about his push/pull spinner as I had been out of the mame loop for about a year while I finished my multipin project. It sounds as though Randy's (GGG) push/pull is a phenomenal choice as well. I have had the Blackhawk for two weeks now (wasn't aware the GGG was actually in production when I purchased) and have nothing but good things to say about it. If I were to nitpick the only two things would be the large footprint it requires, and the"grinding" noise. And even that noise isn't really grinding, but a slight rubbing sound as the metal disc rotates while in contact with the plastic microswitch actuator(only when push/pull not just rotating). I had been a Slikstik user for many years and my most recent cabinet, it was difficult to find a tornado anywhere. I have to say that the Apache feels really good. I haven't played all of the spinner games yet, but the ones I have played, played well.

I think both products are an excellent choice regardless, and that both vendors feel that they have the best product on the market (as they should, because they both seem to be really good)......In the links provided to you, it is important to note that "whynotpizza" is actually the owner/designer of Apache Controls and his opinion is obviously biased towards his product....

--- End quote ---

Good info., I will try to keep that all in mind.

So with what you said, do you think you would go back and choose the TT HL over the Apache now? I know you sauid you are very happy with it and the reviews that I posted seems very positive.

I am just trying to buy the very best and when you are spending over 100 on a spinner, I think that is not too much to ask.

--- End quote ---

I don't know- do you like Ford or Chevy? Do you see what I am getting at... it is a choice you would have to make... I have never used the GGG spinner, so I can't give opinion on that.... If you were asking if I would buy the Apache again.... Yes I would, it feels really good to me and is built solid. Had I bought the GGG push/pull first, I would probably being the same thing- it looks really good.... As far as resolution settings and Arkanoid, my opinion is that I did not grow up a hardcore Arkanoid player to know that the lower resolution feels different than the higher... Honestly, if I loved Arkanoid so much and wanted the authentic feel, I would just buy a dedicated Arkanoid for the price of one of these spinners (Actually picked one-Arkanoid- up for 125.00 and sold it later)... I had the real estate on my control panel for the Apache and it mounted similar to the tornado (I already had the artwork on thinking I was getting a tornado) so it was an easy choice for me as I didn't need to modify my CP at all.....


Here is a pic-
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