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Author Topic: Star Wars restoration - AVG board problem  (Read 7209 times)

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RayB

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Star Wars restoration - AVG board problem
« on: October 03, 2008, 11:26:38 am »
I shouldn't even be posting this here... This machine needs very little restoration. The sides are in excellent condition, the overlays are very good. Marquee bend has the usual cracking at bottom but nothing major.

The only odd thing is the yoke has an overlay that says something about machine guns and missiles, and there's even the words "headphones" and "volume" with arrows pointing down. What could this yoke have been from?

Monitor, unfortunately not working. Seller claims it plays blind. I have not yet powered it on. I just got it home this morning had nearly broke my leg in the process (got pinned under the machine!). This one is dangerously heavy and I won't be able to move it into the basement. (Wait until the GF hears about this! uh oh!)
« Last Edit: November 04, 2008, 12:34:45 am by RayB »
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ChadTower

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Re: Star Wars restoration
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2008, 12:54:08 pm »

I feel your pain on moving a Star Wars... I do mostly Atari cabs and they are heavy mofos.  Star Wars especially weighs a ton.  Take out the monitor, the CP, and the transformer and it will be much easier to move.  You're going to have to take them all out to rebuild them anyway.

I don't have a surefire answer for that overlay but I have seen quite a few Star Wars yokes with a Spy Hunter Weapons Van button in the middle of them.

Level42

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Re: Star Wars restoration
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2008, 01:01:21 pm »
Nice one !

What monitor is in there ? I hope it's an Amplifone.

....cockpits are much easier to move ;)

RayB

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Re: Star Wars restoration
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2008, 01:07:23 pm »
It has a WG.

And I just figured out it has a Fire Fox yoke. Dilemma: Cover up rare Fire Fox yoke with SW repro sticker or attempt the ridiculous (which is finding someone wishing to swap)???
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 02:00:20 pm by RayB »
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Re: Star Wars restoration
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2008, 02:39:38 pm »
That would be a long shot. KLOV forum or RGVAC is your target audience...

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Re: Star Wars restoration
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2008, 02:54:39 pm »

Get a crappy parts yoke and swap that housing.  It's just a metal cover piece.  Odds are low you'll find another Firefox yoke with that good an overlay.

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Re: Star Wars restoration
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2008, 04:14:42 pm »
Order a new yoke with RAM controls....



Sorry guys, I couldn't resist.

ChadTower

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Re: Star Wars restoration
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2008, 04:27:44 pm »

A Firefox yoke from RAM Controls?   :)

Aren't the two shaped sorta differently?

RayB

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Re: Star Wars restoration
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2008, 07:04:48 pm »
Why the hell would I want another Fire Fox yoke? I want a Star Wars yoke. I would trade this one for SW yoke.
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Re: Star Wars restoration
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2008, 02:58:36 am »
Chad was kidding Ray.

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Re: Star Wars restoration
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2008, 04:46:06 pm »

Actually, I wasn't, but all I was trying to do was suggest a way to get the single part he's talking about.  Of course he can just go out and get a different yoke.  Dude needs to chill, though.  Geez.

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Re: Star Wars restoration
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2008, 10:58:48 pm »
Power cord had a broken ground prong, so I replaced it with a new one. Checked fuses (only visually), checked connections, and cleaned the board edge traces. Powered up.

Red light on monitor (which is a WG 6103 by the way, not an Amplifone). Red light in the board cage. Doesn't coin up or make any sounds, other than a low hiss from the speakers.

Luckily I know someone with a working upright, and should be able to test the boards in his, and vice versa (to see if my monitor works with his good board set).
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Re: Star Wars restoration
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2008, 11:35:18 pm »
AR-II had a resistor ripped off it (hanging by one end), so I soldered that back in. Tested it in my Missile Command and it's good. Running at 5.01v, same as my other good AR-II.

Put it back in SW, still nothing. Still a hiss noise from the speakers.

Pulled out the board set and cleaned every set of edge traces, even the ones for the little board that ties all the boards together. Put it back in, tested without the RF shield board. Series of a beeps blared. Sounded like an alarm! I flipped the test switch to the other position, and I eventually heard: "THE FORCE WILL BE WITH YOU!"

That's as far as I can get, though I think the diagnostic mode might be working, as I eventually also hear "Red 5 Standing By".

That's as far as I can get. Here's a summary (any tips would help greatly):

- Monitor not showing anything (red LED on monitor board is lit, and seems to flash every 2 seconds)

- With test switch in down position, on power up I get 16 beeps, a pause, then 16 again and it seems to repeat like this.

- All board "single" LEDs are lit. The main board "group of 3" LEDs light on power up, then turn off after about 2 or 3 seconds.

- Voltages: +5 is at 5.03v, +12 is at 11.5v. Should I raise this?

- Coining up makes no sound. It does not even trigger my coin counter.

- Pressing the button next to the service switch doesn't make a sound or anything.

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Re: Star Wars restoration
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2008, 02:57:13 am »
- Monitor not showing anything (red LED on monitor board is lit, and seems to flash every 2 seconds)
Sounds like it's trying to power up but fails. The 6100 is one piece of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- IMHO compared to the Amplifone, but you can get it running with a lot of patience. Get a LV2000 or LV6100 (from Mark Spaeth). Every 6100 should have one. Further, the "usual" cap-kit and check ALL solderings. Yes ALL of them. Start with the deflection PCB. The connectors are the most likely to have bad solderings. Check them with a DVM or a magnifying glass. I suggest re-soldering all the connector points.
Same on the HV and neckboard, check/redo at least all connector solderings. The one I worked on had a particularly badly soldered neckboard. At one spot there even wasn't any solder at all, with the resistors' leg sticking through the hole ! I will have to resolder that entire board.

- With test switch in down position, on power up I get 16 beeps, a pause, then 16 again and it seems to repeat like this.
If all beeps are of a low tone than congratulations, it just passed the memory tests.

All board "single" LEDs are lit. The main board "group of 3" LEDs light on power up, then turn off after about 2 or 3 seconds.
Again, congratulations, that's perfectly normal behaviour for a working board-set.

- Voltages: +5 is at 5.03v, +12 is at 11.5v. Should I raise this?
NO ! The 5V is perfect and you can't separately regulate the 12V. It'll be fine.

- Coining up makes no sound. It does not even trigger my coin counter.
It's in free-play.
If free-play is off, you get "The force will be with you" at the first credit and "Always" at the second credit.
When it's in free play, it will say "The force will be with you" when it's powered up fully and you can start a game by pressing one of the fire buttons.  You hear "Red 5 standing by" when you've entered the difficulty selection screen. Press a fire button at that time and you should hear the game sounds !

- Pressing the button next to the service switch doesn't make a sound or anything.
That's normal. In game running mode it doesn't do anything at all. In test-mode it will cycle through the various test-screens but of course you don't see that.

So, I think you're board-set is working and your WG is not. Not a bad start.

RayB

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Re: Star Wars restoration
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2008, 11:18:13 am »
I checked the manual and 16 HIGH tones are good. (Correct your post please.  ;) )

Here's what's bothersome about the sounds... The "Red 5 standing by" isn't immediate when pushing a fire button. It's as if there's a delay. And then I don't get any game sounds, though I suppose it's possible I just couldn't blindly hit one of the difficulty Death Stars to start a game. (Would be especially true if the yoke weren't working right, yes?)

Otherwise, my suspicion is this... speech is working but not the synthesized sounds...?

Thanks for the tips. I'll bring the board set to another Star Wars owner to diagnose, and rebuild the monitor ASAP!

PS: I was glad to find all boards are original and matching original serial #. This machine hasn't been touched. I guess I should replace Big Blue (there's a buzz from the speakers). How necessary is it to replace the bridge rectifier too?

PS2: I heard the 6103 is much better and reliable than the original 6100.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2008, 11:28:36 am by RayB »
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Re: Star Wars restoration
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2008, 12:24:19 pm »
Ah ow, well OK then, high tones it is. I was posting that from my head without looking at the manual. Little chance on 16 bad tones though, so you'd be able to pick out the sound for "bad" easily.

Those beeps are generated by (one of the) pokey's.

The difficulty selection screen stays up 10 seconds (or 15 or so) and then automatically starts at the diff. level that the yoke is nearest to. If your yoke weren't working I guess it would automatically select the medium difficulty and start the game there. You should hear the music starting and you should be able to hear your shots when you fire.

You can swap out boards with a good set, that's a good way of localizing any problems.

What do you mean with "This machine hasn't been touched" ? It's got a WG ! ;) ;) ;)

I don't expect the 6103 to be very different from the 6100 ?

Do you hear any chatter on the yokes at all ?


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Re: Star Wars restoration
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2008, 11:17:41 am »
What do you mean with "This machine hasn't been touched" ? It's got a WG ! ;) ;) ;)
Heh, yeah other than that. I meant all the boards are original with no repair tags and all the serial numbers match. I guess it's been touched a lot in other ways, seeing how it has a FireFox yoke.  :P

Quote
I don't expect the 6103 to be very different from the 6100 ?
I just read in a 6100 technical/repair manual that 6103 was improved for much better reliability. That's all I know.

Quote
Do you hear any chatter on the yokes at all ?
No.
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Re: Star Wars restoration
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2008, 11:43:01 pm »
Set all the dipswitches to factory defaults today. Tried it blind again, and same thing. Ben's saying on power on, Red 5 saying after coining and pressing a trigger, then nothing. I let it sit a good long time and tried blindly hitting a difficulty Death Star with no luck. (Does the firing on the difficulty screen make shooting sounds? If so, then I'm not getting that either).

Loud hum in speakers. Next pay check I'll place an order with Bob for a bunch of kits and parts.
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Re: Star Wars restoration
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2008, 09:00:22 pm »
UPDATE:
I tested the board in another cabinet that has a working monitor, and I got all the same symptoms so at least the problem is narrowed down to the board set.

Visual inspection of the AVG board reveals no obvious problems.

The AVG board has test points for X, Y signal, etc... I was wondering if it is possible to measure those using a standard digital multimeter or not? I just want to narrow down if the problem is with the board itself or if it's maybe with the connector mini-board that links the 3 main boards together.
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Re: Star Wars restoration - AVG board problem
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2008, 06:14:56 am »
So you didn't have a picture on that other cab either ?
And normally the monitor works on that one ?

You can swap PCB's between each-other to locate if the problem is on one of the 3 PCB's  with the other (working) PCB set.  Are you positive that the end-board that connects all three boards is correctly set-up. (check with the working board-set) ?

A multi-meter won't show much because the signals are too fast for a DVM. If you have a 2 channel scope you can see the complete game (like I showed on my YouTube video).

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Re: Star Wars restoration - AVG board problem
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2008, 09:10:58 am »

You can test it with a DMM - the X and Y voltages have known ranges.  I can't remember exactly what they are but I think they are in the manual.  They move fast, obviously, but if it's way way off you can see it instantly, especially if it is because there is missing voltage there.  It may actually be easier to do with an analog meter so you can watch the needle instead of a rapidly changing readout.

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Re: Star Wars restoration - AVG board problem
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2009, 12:11:05 pm »
Got new "repro" yoke overlay from ThisOldGame.com 
It's beeeoooootiful!
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 02:39:35 pm by RayB »
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Re: Star Wars restoration - AVG board problem
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2009, 09:38:12 am »
I'm confused...is this my thread?  A Fire Fox overlay and a problem with the AVG board - exactly the same as my cab.  Maybe these cabs eventually reject the Fire Fox overlay like a bad transplant!

Any progress on getting the boards going?
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Re: Star Wars restoration - AVG board problem
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2009, 03:47:28 pm »
Been overworked. Great pay, no personal time.  :hissy:
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