Defender Resto 1,367

[beerbarrel]

I got this guy and all was well. I knew that it worked well but it had a coat of black paint. So I get it home and it's sitting in the garage with me. The machine starts talking to me. The more beer I drink the more it talks. It says "Start working on me". Anyway, I'm looking at the black paint and notice that it has some rather large decals under it. The first thing that I start to think is that it might not be an OE Defender cab. I start scraping away at the paint and find out that the decal are some big baseball player stickers. I get a hold of the edge of the sticker and pull. It comes off in one giant piece. Low and behold guess what?




Nearly perfect side art under that sticker. The cab had a black paint job and stickers applied. I guess they did not like the decals and put on another coat of black. I'm going to see how much of the paint that I can get off and try to save the art.

Tracy

[ChadTower]

Good stroke of luck!  That happens a lot, actually.  If you're careful you should be able to save most if not all of the art.

[beerbarrel]

So I'm hunting 4164's to replace the 4116's. I remember that I have this old motherboard out of some piece of equipment in the attic. I know that it is eighties vintage so off to the attic to look at it. I get it down and find out that it has 8, 4164 chips on it. I'm bummed. I figure I'll just go buy some. I start reading up on the Williams memory hack and one that I find says that I can use 41256 chips. That gets me thinking again. Off to look at the MB again. This time I hit the jackpot.



That big bank of chips are 41256-12's. I think that I have solved my memory problem!

Tracy

[beerbarrel]

Good stroke of luck!  That happens a lot, actually.  If you're careful you should be able to save most if not all of the art.

I hope that if I can't save it I can make a stencil.

Tracy

[ChadTower]

You can buy a stencil if you can't make one. 

[beerbarrel]

Yeah, I found the stencils online. I think they were 85 dollars. That is my backup plan. I'm going to go to Home Depot and get some paint stripper. The balck is so thick that I think if I put it on lightly I can get enough paint off to make a stencil or maybe even save the art. I gotta save where I can.

Tracy

[ChadTower]

You could go halfway... download the Defender AI files, print out each layer, and make your own stencils.

[beerbarrel]

You could go halfway... download the Defender AI files, print out each layer, and make your own stencils.

Could you explain that to me in a little more detail? What are AI files and do I need to print them at office depot or something? I'm assuming that they are large?

Tracy

[ChadTower]

AI - Adobe Illustrator.  They are the vectorized art files you could use to print vinyl sideart... or a new stencil, if you wanted.  You could get full size stencils done at Office Depot or a sign shop or you could print it in 8.5x11 sections yourself and do the stencils that way.

Or you could just mask the existing art off with tape and repaint it that way.  That would be the cheapest overall method.

[beerbarrel]

Thanks Chad....I think that I might get my own stencils done. We have some of those big wide printers at work that I will bet could handle the job. I'm going to check with those guys and see.

AI - Adobe Illustrator.  They are the vectorized art files you could use to print vinyl sideart... or a new stencil, if you wanted.  You could get full size stencils done at Office Depot or a sign shop or you could print it in 8.5x11 sections yourself and do the stencils that way.

Or you could just mask the existing art off with tape and repaint it that way.  That would be the cheapest overall method.

[TheShanMan]

I'm wondering if there's a good/easy way to match the paint colors used on Defender. My own Defender has artwork in quite good condition, but I'd like to touch it up or perhaps even completely repaint to make it fresh. Only problem is I can't exactly carry my cab into Home Depot to have them color match it.

Although perhaps I can take off the front panel and have them color match off of that - I might have to see how removable it is. Does anyone have a better idea?

[beerbarrel]

Good question Shanman...I could have sworn I was reading thru a thread where they told what paints the used.

Tracy

[beerbarrel]

Where do u buy Molex connector kits and crimpers? Do you buy different lengths on a one by one basis or do they make a kit?

Tracy

[ChadTower]

A quick search on RGVAC shows this:

Off-the shelf colors, near perfect match:

Krylon Red Pepper
Krylon Sun Yellow
Gloss black

I crosschecked that against what are commonly used for Black Knight, which I have myself.  Also a Williams game, made in the same year, same color scheme on the cabinet.  Same colors are often used for that game too.

[SirPeale]

That big bank of chips are 41256-12's. I think that I have solved my memory problem!

Very fortunate.  The 41256 are pin compatible with the 4164, right?

[SirPeale]

Is this part of your restoration thread?  If so I'll merge it; if not I'll move it.

You can get Molex (with a capital M) connectors from Mouser.  You can even download the specs right off their site.  Pins available there as well. 

Are you looking for something in particular?

[beerbarrel]

I guess in a way it is part of thes resto thread. My Defender was converted to a switcher. I have the linear supply and want to put it back in after a rebuild. The oe connector was cut off to hook the wires to the switcher. I asked the question in general because I thought the other folks doing restos might need Molex connectors too. I do not know if you have to buy then on a piece mill basis or kits are available to make your own.


Tracy

[beerbarrel]

That big bank of chips are 41256-12's. I think that I have solved my memory problem!

Very fortunate.  The 41256 are pin compatible with the 4164, right?

From what I read yes they are...just larger memory. I'll find the link and post it here.

Tracy

[ChadTower]

It's all kits - you buy connectors and pins and assemble your own harnesses.

[beerbarrel]

Sorry Peale, they are not pin for pin. They have to be handled just like 4164's as far as I can tell.

Tracy

That big bank of chips are 41256-12's. I think that I have solved my memory problem!

Very fortunate.  The 41256 are pin compatible with the 4164, right?

[beerbarrel]

Here is a newsgroup post but I saw an easier way somewhere. I'm still looking.

Tracy


If you want to modify a 41256 to work as a 4116, here's how to do it:

1.  Jumper pin 1 to pin 16.
2.  Clip off pin 1.
3.  Jumper pin 8 to pin 9.
4.  Clip off pin 8.


You are now ready to drop this chip into a socket or board location that's
meant to work with a 4116.  No board modifications are necessary.


I have tried this already with several _Missile Command_ boards and it works
just fine.  I've found it best to replace all of the original 4116 RAM chips
at the same time; if one original has failed, chances are the others are not
far behind and it's time to replace them all.


Defend cities!


Matt J. McCullar
Arlington, TX

[SirPeale]

You can buy them piecemeal too.  It's easier to buy a kit from someone like Bob Roberts, but I'm not sure it's cheaper without looking.

[SirPeale]

Sorry Peale, they are not pin for pin. They have to be handled just like 4164's as far as I can tell.

I mean pin for pin with the 4164, not the 4116.  I know you can't just pop a 4164 in one without cooking it.

[TheShanMan]

You can also get 25 4164's for $12 shipped from a guy over in the klov forums (I just paid for mine yesterday), and then use peale's power supply adapter. Not terribly expensive. http://forums.klov.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=876481&an=0&page=1#Post876481

As far as the PS connectors, I have to do the same thing. Bob Roberts has a complete PS connector kit (3 connectors) for $2.50. I would have gotten it from him if I realized in time that I have the same problem with the wires being cut to hook up to a switcher. I'll probably end up getting it from mouser if there's other stuff I decide I need from there, otherwise I'll order it from Bob.



EDIT: just to be clear: the 4164's are a very limited supply, so if you think you want to go that direction, decide and act now!

[TheShanMan]

A quick search on RGVAC shows this:

Off-the shelf colors, near perfect match:

Krylon Red Pepper
Krylon Sun Yellow
Gloss black

I crosschecked that against what are commonly used for Black Knight, which I have myself.  Also a Williams game, made in the same year, same color scheme on the cabinet.  Same colors are often used for that game too.

That's great Chad. Thanks!

[beerbarrel]

Peale,

I think there might be one more step involved to use 41256. I found this link that you might have a look at.

http://web.archive.org/web/20041012022540/http://ozborn.home.netcom.com/hacks/JustSayNoTo4116.html

Sorry Peale, they are not pin for pin. They have to be handled just like 4164's as far as I can tell.

I mean pin for pin with the 4164, not the 4116.  I know you can't just pop a 4164 in one without cooking it. Try this one...

http://scoresaves.com/documents/JustSayNoTo4116.html

[Kevin Mullins]

Are the pics missing from the link above for you guys as well ?

I need to start thinking about doing this mod to my Stargate.

[beerbarrel]

Yes they were missing. That was an old view of the website. I did find it with the pics the other day but cannot find it now. I jumpered a chip to see how it would come out following the instructions. I'll post a pic in a few.

Tracy

[beerbarrel]

I soldered some very fine wire across the bottom of the chip between the front set and last set of pins. I will clip 2 of those pins later. The area that looks like a solder blob is actually the pin bent slightly inward. I did not get the one wire as tight as I wanted but it will work.

[beerbarrel]

It was easy to do in case you were wondering. I just made what was something that looked like the twist tie that you would put on a loaf of bread. I twisted until tight across the base of the pins and then tacked it real quick. It takes about 5 minutes a chip.

[SirPeale]

That's a lot of work; why didn't you just mod the board or build an adapter?

[beerbarrel]

I thought about it. I figured that I had the chips why not go ahead and do it. I did not really want to mod the board. I was not sure if the adapter would work with the chips I was using.

Tracy

[TheShanMan]

Peale's adapter requires no board modification, and like I said the 4164's can be had pretty cheap over on that klov thread (while supplies last), if you decide you don't want to continue modifying those chips. Personally I don't think it's worth the time but there are plenty of things I do that others would say "it's not worth your time" so to each his own.

[Kevin Mullins]

Either method is functionally proper.... but I would rather just modify the board as it seems to be a very minor mod that way any further replacements are just drop in. (I know, the harness adapter would make them drop in as well)

But without the pics then that would mean I would actually have to do some schematic tracing to do the board mod, which involves thinking.
 
Actually shouldn't be all that hard to figure out. It's just rerouting voltage is all.

[beerbarrel]

Oh, I know about the doing things issue. I guess I just did it because I had the stuff. The adapter is very inexpensive but it was just one of those things. I looked at KLOV earlier. I wasn't sure he would have chips left either. It looked like they went quick. Yep, it was probably dumb....but it was fun!

Tracy

[beerbarrel]

I printed the pics the other day Kevin. If I can't find the right site I will scan them for you.

Tracy

Either method is functionally proper.... but I would rather just modify the board as it seems to be a very minor mod that way any further replacements are just drop in. (I know, the harness adapter would make them drop in as well)

But without the pics then that would mean I would actually have to do some schematic tracing to do the board mod, which involves thinking.
 
Actually shouldn't be all that hard to figure out. It's just rerouting voltage is all.

[beerbarrel]

Try this Kevin...

http://scoresaves.com/documents/JustSayNoTo4116.html

Either method is functionally proper.... but I would rather just modify the board as it seems to be a very minor mod that way any further replacements are just drop in. (I know, the harness adapter would make them drop in as well)

But without the pics then that would mean I would actually have to do some schematic tracing to do the board mod, which involves thinking.
 
Actually shouldn't be all that hard to figure out. It's just rerouting voltage is all.

[Kevin Mullins]

Try this Kevin...

http://scoresaves.com/documents/JustSayNoTo4116.html

Awesome !
And I'm sure others could use that info as well.
Thanks.

[beerbarrel]

Welp, I spent a couple of hours with a razor blade and I've gone from solid black to what resembles a Defender pic. I could probably make my own stencils from what I have here but it might be tons easier just to spend the 85 dollars and get some stencils. It sure would be nice to make a set tha we could share with the community.

Tracy

[RetroACTIVE]

Welp, I spent a couple of hours with a razor blade and I've gone from solid black to what resembles a Defender pic. I could probably make my own stencils from what I have here but it might be tons easier just to spend the 85 dollars and get some stencils. It sure would be nice to make a set tha we could share with the community.

Tracy

Heck... that looks good!  I wouldn't even mess with it... keep using the razor blade.  Stencils are already out there for Defender anyway.

http://www.oleszakcreative.com/store/shop/item.asp?itemid=114

 

[beerbarrel]

retrocade,

This is one of those instances where the pic looks better than the item. Kinda like movie stars.. I was trying to save myself the 85 dollars but I don't think that I'm going to be able too.

[beerbarrel]

Welp, I made the plunge. I went ahead and bought the stencils.

Tracy

Welp, I spent a couple of hours with a razor blade and I've gone from solid black to what resembles a Defender pic. I could probably make my own stencils from what I have here but it might be tons easier just to spend the 85 dollars and get some stencils. It sure would be nice to make a set tha we could share with the community.

Tracy

Heck... that looks good!  I wouldn't even mess with it... keep using the razor blade.  Stencils are already out there for Defender anyway.

http://www.oleszakcreative.com/store/shop/item.asp?itemid=114

 

[beerbarrel]

I went to add one more thing to thread. I sent an email to Bob Roberts on Sunday about a power supply rebuild kit and connector kit. He replied later that day and said to send him a check. I sent it through my web banking on Monday. I had the kit in my hands about noon today! Talk about service! Also, talk about a trusting individual. He definately will get more business from me.

Tracy

[WunderCade]

Bob's takes web-checks? I didn't know that.

[TheShanMan]

He really is awesome. I had a similar experience the day he opened back up for business a week or 2 ago.

[beerbarrel]

He takes regular checks so I just assumed he would take one. It's really the same thing I guess. I do all my banking online. It beats writing checks by hand and paying postage.

Tracy

Bob's takes web-checks? I didn't know that.

[beerbarrel]

Dumb question time...

I'm curious about whether anyone has removed the plexiglass in front of their monitors and replaced it with tempered glass. I was thinking of doing that if I can get a new decal to put on the reverse side of it. I might need to ask this in another topic area.

Tracy

[RetroACTIVE]

Dumb question time...

I'm curious about whether anyone has removed the plexiglass in front of their monitors and replaced it with tempered glass. I was thinking of doint that if I can get a new deacl to put on the reverse side of it. I might need to ask this in another topic area.

Tracy

You can put anything you want on the front as long as it fits   ... Arcadeshop sells a pretty good repro of the Defender plexi-art bezel.

[beerbarrel]

Thanks for the help guys..

I have done little in the last few days. I did order the stencils and according to ozark creations website they have been mailed out. I also got a PS rebuild kit from Bob Roberts. I did not realize that the big filter cap did not come in the rebuild kit. So, needless to say, I was short that cap. I had to order some junk from Mouser so I go it there. It came in the mail today. I have never done a video for Youtube before but I think I will do one for the PS rebuild. We will see how it goes.

Tracy

[TheShanMan]

A video would be cool! I haven't done mine yet so if you do a video I'll definitely watch it.

I didn't even notice the lack of the big cap. Guess I'll be making a mouser order too.

[beerbarrel]

Decals have arrived and they look good. I'm just about ready to strip the cab and start painting the cab but first I have to make a run to Atlanta and pick up the Tekkan 4 cab I bought.  ahhh....another project.

Tracy

 

[beerbarrel]

Time to get started. I'm going to do my PS this weekend and film it. I don't think that it will make me a film star but maybe it will turn out ok. I should have it posted by Sunday night. Wish me luck it is my first you tube video.

Tracy

[beerbarrel]

Welp, I made my video. If I can ever figure out how to get it from analog to digital and then on to youtube, it will be a miracle. I spent the day yesterday taping and then trying to get it on to the computer. I finally gave up. I do have a few pointers though:

1. Resolder all of the connector pins on all 3 connectors. At least half of mine were bad.

2 Clean the all the connector pins mine had a good bit of corrosion.

3. If you don't have good desoldering equipment then clip each lead on the IC's and remove the pins one at a time. I have a desoldeing station but still had a few issues because of the nature of double sided boards.

4. Be careful! The pads are easy to lift. Dumbo me lifted two. Luckily they were just solder points on the bottom of the board. The traces that went to the associated pins were on the top of the board. I reglued the pads and was back in business but this is not always the case.

5. The large cap that stands up on the board has a dummy pin that helps hold it to the board. You will desolder 3 pins but will only solder 2 on the new cap.

6. If you get your kit from Bob Roberts then remember that the kit does not come with the largest cap. You will have to buy that one extra. You can get it from Bob Roberts as well.

7. Lastly, you might want to have some thermal paste handy for the 2N3055 transistor and don't forget to put the mica insulator back on.


Hope this helps...

Tracy

[RayB]

Who is Dave Roberts?

[beerbarrel]

I don't know!  Who is Dave Roberts?   

Who is Dave Roberts?

[RayB]

 

[beerbarrel]

Duh...what was I thinking? Thanks for pointing out my error!

 

[beerbarrel]

Here is my first attemp at a video...be gentle!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5xXyeEcZSY[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8L-8GWL3Eg[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqXo9HEHQ3Q[/youtube]

[TheShanMan]

Thanks for making the videos, BB. Well done. When I'm ready to do my board I'll watch them again.

[WunderCade]

Dumb question time...

I'm curious about whether anyone has removed the plexiglass in front of their monitors and replaced it with tempered glass. I was thinking of doing that if I can get a new decal to put on the reverse side of it. I might need to ask this in another topic area.

Tracy

Not a dumb question at all. Check out the back and forth on this thread. I ask the guy basically what you are inquiring about and he says they can print reverse side on glass just like the glass bezels. I don't know how costly it'd be, but it'd be worth asking the guy...he says you can send in a .ai vector file - you might see if the Defender bezel is available at localarcade.com.

[beerbarrel]

You know, I read that thread. I'm thinking that if I can get some 3/16 tempered glass and a overlay I would be good to go. In the thread, the guy says that he can only handle 24 inches wide. The glass in Defender is 24.5. I like glass for the clarity, plus my plexi is got this weird pitting going on.

Tracy

Dumb question time...

I'm curious about whether anyone has removed the plexiglass in front of their monitors and replaced it with tempered glass. I was thinking of doing that if I can get a new decal to put on the reverse side of it. I might need to ask this in another topic area.

Tracy

Not a dumb question at all. Check out the back and forth on this thread. I ask the guy basically what you are inquiring about and he says they can print reverse side on glass just like the glass bezels. I don't know how costly it'd be, but it'd be worth asking the guy...he says you can send in a .ai vector file - you might see if the Defender bezel is available at localarcade.com.

[WunderCade]

Well...if you're thinking about adhering a sticker bezel to the back of glass...it's talked about in this thread.

[beerbarrel]

That's it Wundercade. I'm still aways down the road from that point but I think that it can be done. I kind of like the idea about the model decals. Surely someone does that?

Tracy

[beerbarrel]

Finally back on the Defender. It's Robert Chou out Linear in! I finally got around to installing the OE P/S. All voltages check good. The only thing left to do is wire on some new connectors that I got from Bob Roberts. I'm going to have to lengthen the 6 wire harness by about a foot. It looks like whomever put in the Chou cut the harness by a good bit. I have also picked up a new overlay, marquee, joystick rebuild kit. It's almost time to finish the cab and stencil. I almost forgot to mention that the PS that came out of a coctal seems to be a little smaller the the upright. Maybe they just changed board sizes over the years.

[beerbarrel]

Nope, the PS is not smaller it is missing mount brackets.

Tracy

[beerbarrel]

I hate to rub it in but it was about 80 outside today. I got the defender out and finished scraping all the thick black paint from it. I'm ready for bondo and sanding now. I'll finish removing all the boards tonight. I plan on upgrading the memory to 41256 and doing the mod that is here http://scoresaves.com/documents/JustSayNoTo4116.html. I'm also going to install the battery upgrade. I plan on posting a video here. Here is the latest pic:

[beerbarrel]

Made another video. I installed the Lithium battery upgrade. Video is long but hopefully will help out some folks who might be afraid to do their own.

Tracy

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZwfvndXau4[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4eLiIX-J5w[/youtube]

[beerbarrel]

Did the memory upgrade and added 41256 memory to my board today. It was really a piece of cake. It will be a few days before I get to test it out but I think that it will be ok. If you look close you can see the mods and cuts that I made in the traces.

Tracy

[beerbarrel]

Started the bondo process....hopefully panit will not be too far behind.

[Level42]

Nice vids ! Why do you use separate flux before soldering ?
I can understand why you use it when desoldering the old solderings but there is already flux inside of your solder tin right ?

I never use flux. To get old solderings "flowing" I simply add a little new solder.

Anyway nice work, and very clear explanation !

[beerbarrel]

I normally use a little flux on old solder to help it melt. Every now and then I have to add a little solder but not too often. I use solder that does not contain flux so I use rosin flux in my applicator. I just made the video to help out the few folks that might be afraid to attempt it themselves. I've seen your work. You don't need any soldering explanations from me. All your stuff in top notch. I solder the way I do based on habit more than anything. Thanks for the compliments....

Nice vids ! Why do you use separate flux before soldering ?
I can understand why you use it when desoldering the old solderings but there is already flux inside of your solder tin right ?

I never use flux. To get old solderings "flowing" I simply add a little new solder.

Anyway nice work, and very clear explanation !

[beerbarrel]

WOW....3 Years and my Defender is still in the same shape. Welp, sometimes life gets in the way. Ive decided to restore it but add JROK's multi Williams to the existing harness. I made up the adapter harness from his drawings this weekend. I'll make a new control panel so that I can play all the games. Ill keep the factory panel so that I can convert it back to Defender in a snap.

[beerbarrel]

The JROK adapter...

[Spyridon]

WOW....3 Years and my Defender is still in the same shape.

Glad to see you are still working on this.  Now go back and fix your picture links so we can see what shape it was/is in

[beerbarrel]

I will this weekend....did not think anyone was really following this thread...

WOW....3 Years and my Defender is still in the same shape.

Glad to see you are still working on this.  Now go back and fix your picture links so we can see what shape it was/is in

[beerbarrel]

Cab about ready to paint.....pics coming tomorrow!

[beerbarrel]

Ready to paint the black this weekend. I'm using satin Rustoleum 7777. I bought a spray bomb to hit the inside corners. I'mm sand those ares lightly and then mix up some 7777 out of a quart can with naptha and spray the rest of the cab. I reinstalled the PS. I painted the coin door. Tonight after work I'll put the mainboard in and see if all works together. Here are some general pics.

[beerbarrel]

Welp....wiring pretty much done. All back together sans the coin door, it's awaiting a switch from Bob Roberts . I  Installed a new Vision Pro monitor, pulled all the ROM chips cleaned and reinstalled. It has been working great for at least 48 hours nonstop! Id I can only get a day without rain to finish paint!

[Spyridon]

I will this weekend....did not think anyone was really following this thread...

Don't forget to fix your old links.

[beerbarrel]

all is fixed thats going to get fixed....don'thave the rest of the pics but you get the general idea.

[beerbarrel]

[/URL[

[beerbarrel]

Cab was painted with Rustoleum 7777 satin black sprayed. Is was mixed with Naptha and not acetone as called for in the instructions. Mixed at about 15 percent. They really sped up the drying time of the paint. Put the coin door back together and used a spray bomb on it.
[/URL[URL=http://s416.photobucket.com/user/tlfort/media/20130729_122143.jpg.html]

[beerbarrel]

Working on the control panel....