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General Billabs information thread
Blanka:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on September 10, 2008, 09:44:38 pm ---They also have a much slower refresh rate, less color spectrum output,
less contrast and brightness.
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Well have they? Could someone measure an new arcade screen on brightness (Cd/m2), Whitepoint (K), Blackpoint (Cd/m2) and maybe even gamut (RGB x,y coordinates)
And that suggested LCD replacement: I bet it is a crappy 768x1366pixel TN-TV display 16:9.
And for the non-native resolutions: I very much like blocky arcade display. The bigger the original pixels the better. Just show those pixels without any polishing as 5x5 pixel blocks! It makes the art only better visible.
Fraxxon on 1920x1200:
TOK:
I don't find native res to be an issue at all with arcade games. My reasons for wanting LCD's are pretty much about convenience. I have two 27" games and two 25's. I move them all around myself, and since I'm getting to the point where I'm a bit landlocked for space, it seems I'm moving them more often.
The only LCD I've used is in my bartop, and that machine has been fine for almost two years. Nobody that has ever played it has made any comment about the display not looking authentic or anything. I find it a non-issue as well. New games are shipping with LCD's, and I'm looking forward to affordable choices.
If I could get drop-in 25" LCD's for all of my games for roughly the same price as CRT's, I would be moving to them as the CRT's developed issues.
Ummon:
--- Quote from: Blanka on September 11, 2008, 01:59:21 am ---
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on September 10, 2008, 09:44:38 pm ---They also have a much slower refresh rate, less color spectrum output,
less contrast and brightness.
--- End quote ---
Well have they? Could someone measure an new arcade screen on brightness (Cd/m2), Whitepoint (K), Blackpoint (Cd/m2) and maybe even gamut (RGB x,y coordinates)
And that suggested LCD replacement: I bet it is a crappy 768x1366pixel TN-TV display 16:9.
And for the non-native resolutions: I very much like blocky arcade display. The bigger the original pixels the better. Just show those pixels without any polishing as 5x5 pixel blocks! It makes the art only better visible.
Fraxxon on 1920x1200:
--- End quote ---
Dude, that looks like Atari 2600 graphics. Eww. Anyways, if it's replacing a CRT, then the LCD will have to be 4:3 - like the other, smaller models shown on their site (like I said above). Also, as those models are CGA-XGA, I'm guessing this one would be, also. Stop and think a minute.
Shoegazer, you'll have to ask them.
Shoegazer:
Totally agree with you there. There are definite advantages to an LCD arcade screen that make them a more compelling alternative to "true" CRTs in my opinion - and take this from someone who has used both.
Reasons:
1) They typically support much higher resolutions, which obviously are not used by most of MAME's games; however vector games are MUCH better looking, and game art, such as that provided on Mr. Do's artwork website, are so sharp you'd swear you could peel them off the monitor. After all, game artwork providing tips or special moves sometimes gave people the advantages they needed to survive in the arcades - so why deprive ourselves of that?
2) They have a much higher MTBF than CRTs, so they last far longer. I'm not sure where the previous comment regarding low LCD lifetimes came from, but perhaps that was based on older LCD technology that definitely had lower lifetimes.
3) They are lighter, safer, and have a much smaller profile allowing for more innovative and practical cabinets to be created, along with original designs.
4) They support more modern, advanced digital interfaces such as DVI, HDMI and DisplayPort; whereas CRTs rely on VGA which is (finally) being phased out by most computers/notebooks.
5) They are easier on the eyes, which is especially important for arcade gaming considering how close from the screen you stand.
6) They use far less power, and don't "burn-in" so you can leave them on in attract modes for extended periods of time without any concerns.
Also, the myth is definitely out there that LCDs don't look great due to their low refresh rate etc., but in my experience anything produced over the last three years looks perfectly fine, certainly competitive with CRT. Think about it - LCD displays are the only ones you see being used with the latest console and PC games like Crysis and Gears of War - and do those games look like crap? Also, newer LCDs (particularly LED-lit vs. CCFL-lit) are MUCH brighter than CRTs.
I hate to disagree with my esteemed colleagues on this site, but I don't think the resolution issues of an LCD are much of a problem. If there are any possible issues with LCD technology, it's that they expose the imperfections of the original game resolutions more than a CRT, as the latter "hides" these issues better. However, with the use of filters such as those provided by MAME, that can be mitigated - though I don't believe you'll ever reach "true" perfection. It's akin to the old "record album vs. cd" debate - yes, there's a certain quality to records that you can't reproduce with CDs, but the advantages of CDs proved they were overwhelmingly better with all things considered.
I think the future will show that companies like Billabs, Wells Gardner and others will stop supporting CRT technology altogether and move exclusively to LCD. These companies in the past have supported CRTs into the 21st century since many arcade cabinets were still being produced with this technology; however current arcade, gambling and bartop games are pretty much exclusively LCD as the price point has dropped to a reasonable level. These companies will no longer continue to offer CRT as an option just to satisfy a small community such as ours. So in short - LCD technology, learn it, love it, use it - cuz you gotta. ;-)
Shoegazer
Ummon:
--- Quote from: TOK on September 11, 2008, 08:35:00 pm ---
--- Quote from: Ummon on September 11, 2008, 08:30:47 pm ---
Dude, that looks like Atari 2600 graphics. Eww. Anyways, if it's replacing a CRT, then the LCD will have to be 4:3 - like the other, smaller models shown on their site (like I said above). Also, as those models are CGA-XGA, I'm guessing this one would be, also. Stop and think a minute.
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Phillips P2000... Read the Wiki!
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Phillips what? I have no idea what you're referring to there. Oh....I see. That ain't arcade so it's totally irrelevant. What a lame game anyway. Next.
Shoegazer, this isn't a thread about contrasting or comparing CRTs and LCDs. I just mentioned the outlets for two different kinds of products if they were desired. The bottom line here is: if you want this kind of multisync for native res plus, then here's where you can get it. If you're wanting to check out a 27" arcade LCD, then check here. Not much to discuss.