Software Support > controls.dat
controls.xml outdated
Howard_Casto:
--- Quote from: SirPoonga on September 12, 2008, 06:56:29 pm ---It seems no one has heard form SirWoogie in awhile. So I think I will talk to saint and get the project moved to hear.
This is going to require some changes so it will take some time to get the website up and going. I did some changes to the forum software so the controls.dat page knew who was logged in and what they were doing.
--- End quote ---
I agree... woogie has been too nice to us, but we need a stable domain that isn't going anywhere.
Since it would be a good time for a re-design anyway, might I suggest a slight expansion on the interface? I was thinking we need to do something similar to maws in that you can look up a game and get all of it's info and respective images, including the controls.dat stuff. The reason is pretty obvious.... a person can get the cp/flyer/ect images online when browsing for the game and do the entry right then. This has the advantage of making sure we are all looking at the same image when it's used for a reference for an entry. We could also set it up to where people can submit images (that have to be verified by admins of course) and output image packs on the fly. That'd certainly make Mr. Do happy. :)
Of course all of these images means more bw and more storage, so saint would have to ok the idea.
headkaze:
I had a feeling Howard wouldn't be able to resist a thread like this ;D
It would be great to expand the ControlsDat online system to include CP images and more info like MAWs, but will it mean more people will be adding controls for games? If we can get a handful of people who know Mame controls that can do batches of games I think there will be a chance of the thing being updated. I thought the whole problem is that there are not enough people doing the updates. Or is the problem the online software isn't intuitive enough? I don't believe I ever got a chance to see the area on the website where you can actually lodge a controls.dat entry.
I wonder if Saint has ASP.NET on his server? Probably only PHP and SQL. What is the current software in, php and SQL didn't you say SirPoonga? Will we even be able to change the language?
My main concern is, that if we keep saying we need changes, updated software, etc. then the momentum we see here might die down and the project might be put on the backburner again. I think the main goal should be to get the database updated using whatever means at our disposal and then concentrate on updating the online submission system.
Space Fractal:
asp.net have a lots of hided costs if you going to need some library, which typically cost money. That is the part I doesn't like asp.net, where php can all asp.net can without this type of hidden costs.
If arcadecontrols.com server is on a Linux server, ASP.NET is not possible.
The major problem if a admin need verify is he might use a lots of time to check all entries manual. So The unverified is a great idea, which so got verified over time.
Images is really doesn't need to been shown and use by the public and should only require for sending entries with source images. So I cant See this should use much more bandwidth?
Otherwise it would been great to move this to arcadecontrols.com, since it this community project. Etc even own forum about controls.dat would been really nice too with new entries.
Howard_Casto:
--- Quote from: headkaze on September 12, 2008, 10:23:23 pm ---I had a feeling Howard wouldn't be able to resist a thread like this ;D
It would be great to expand the ControlsDat online system to include CP images and more info like MAWs, but will it mean more people will be adding controls for games? If we can get a handful of people who know Mame controls that can do batches of games I think there will be a chance of the thing being updated. I thought the whole problem is that there are not enough people doing the updates. Or is the problem the online software isn't intuitive enough? I don't believe I ever got a chance to see the area on the website where you can actually lodge a controls.dat entry.
I wonder if Saint has ASP.NET on his server? Probably only PHP and SQL. What is the current software in, php and SQL didn't you say SirPoonga? Will we even be able to change the language?
My main concern is, that if we keep saying we need changes, updated software, etc. then the momentum we see here might die down and the project might be put on the backburner again. I think the main goal should be to get the database updated using whatever means at our disposal and then concentrate on updating the online submission system.
--- End quote ---
That's a fair enough question so to avoid any confusion let me explain what happened to controls.dat right here.
The reason it stopped getting updated has to do with the following:
1. We NEVER had many volunteers. We had myself, sirP, rebel and two or three others doing submissions... that's it. I'd estimate around 85-95% of the submissions were done by us exclusively. When you saw a great surge in new submissions is when one of us got the urge to sit down for a weekend and do several dozen entries.
2. The primary resource for info on a game's controls are Mr Do's control panel images. It is the preferred reference. Mr Do hasn't released a new pack in over a year and a half. Controls.dat hasn't had any major additions in that entire length of time. It's not a concidence.
3. Without new entries to add to the list, there is next to no motivation on sirp's or my part to make sure existing entries are still current. Also there is no way to automate the process of making sure mame hasn't changed the controls on a driver (other than the game name, which we do check). This means as the database gets larger and larger, it becomes a greater time investment for me and especially SirP (who handles script changes exclusively) to check existing entries as newer versions of mame come out. Also contrary to popular belief it isn't necessary to update controls.dat every time a new version of mame is released. 90% of the time, controls remain unchanged between releases. Just because controls.dat is at 1.11 doesn't mean it won't work perfectly fine with mame 1.27 or whatever.
4. Woogie is very helpful and he is nice enough to host us, the problem is he disappears for long periods (understandable, he's busy) and when he does it often leaves us waiting for him to return before we can do any significant changes and when he does return we might not have the free time we did when we wanted to get started.
So with that being said, putting the images online and allowing users to submit new ones would help solve #2 and take some of the pressure off of Mr. Do. Working on the backend of things a little could help fix the maintenance issues in #3 by making it easier for the two or three admins to maintain the db. Moving the server to byoac could solve #4 pretty much entirely and with #2-4 fixed we'll hopefully get some images coming in and/or new entires and it'll cause me to do large batches of entires at a time like I used to and thus more stuff will get added.
The main issue is the same one we had when we started, mainly public interest. You only see a great surge of volunteers (outside of the usual group) when a lot of entries are being made and thus the project looks "active". When entries aren't happening then ironically, it discourages the public from doing entires. So there is no easy way to put this... the life of controls.dat rests soley on the people who always diid the bulk of the entries in the first place, namely us, so making things more comfortable for us is a step in the right direction towards getting things moving again. ;)
I don't have the free time like I used to, but I could probably do around 20-40 entries a weekend if we get back up again and get everything squared away.
One thing that I dread though is that if/when we implement some of this new stuff it'd really make sense for the admins and really anyone who could help out to do a once-over of the entries so that we can start fresh with a db that's in line with the latest version of mame, control changes and all. That's gonna be a huge pain in the butt, but I'm willing to do my part IF sirp and I can actually get some help with it.
So hk, the momentum has always kind of been in my court on controls.dat so I can assure you if everyone is willing to help out with the changes I'm more than willing to set aside time and admin the thing properly again, like I did in the old days. :) I can even help with the site re-design if you guys need it. I'd rather sirp work on the db itself, but I've learned enough php over the past few years to help with the interface and what-not. There's no way around it though, controls.dat is a victim of it's own success, some of you guys are going to have to admin with us and help verfying submissions.
u_rebelscum:
Good summary Howard; I have only a few points I'd like to add:
--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on September 13, 2008, 02:16:22 pm ---1. We NEVER had many volunteers. We had myself, sirP, rebel and two or three others doing submissions... that's it. I'd estimate around 85-95% of the submissions were done by us exclusively. When you saw a great surge in new submissions is when one of us got the urge to sit down for a weekend and do several dozen entries.
--- End quote ---
Howard's being modest have; he did the most amount of the games, AFAICT.
--- Quote ---2. The primary resource for info on a game's controls are Mr Do's control panel images. It is the preferred reference. Mr Do hasn't released a new pack in over a year and a half. Controls.dat hasn't had any major additions in that entire length of time. It's not a coincidence.
--- End quote ---
Also, the other major source of reference, online sites with scanned manuals, have been hit with major bandwidth problems and/or c0pyright issues in the past year, so most aren't always up, have gone underground, or just gone under. :(
--- Quote ---So with that being said, putting the images online and allowing users to submit new ones would help solve #2 and take some of the pressure off of Mr. Do. Working on the backend of things a little could help fix the maintenance issues in #3 by making it easier for the two or three admins to maintain the db. Moving the server to byoac could solve #4 pretty much entirely and with #2-4 fixed we'll hopefully get some images coming in and/or new entires and it'll cause me to do large batches of entires at a time like I used to and thus more stuff will get added.
--- End quote ---
Definitely. One big stumbling block I've had was the effort matching a pic to a game, and then finding out it was already in controls.dat. It would be much easier for most people at add games if pics were somehow linked to games not in controls.dat. And with the pics linked already, double checking for admins would be easier too.
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