*J_K_M_A_N WINS* NFL Last Man Standing Pick 'Em 2008

[shardian]

Well unfortunately, you can't call the game a draw. One person gets the W, one gets the L. So yes, you have to give all the money to him to 'right the wrong' - even though you still won the game (lottery).

[abrannan]

I'm not blaming the ref for making a mistake, that's ok and I think he is normally a fine ref, I'm pissed that his hands are tied because he blew his whistle. This rule needs to be changed/altered in some way.

So how would you change it in a way that's fair to both teams, still protects the quarterback, and doesn't allow for "accidental" tampering by a ref?  There's the rub.  

The real controversy is going to come when SD misses out on a wild card spot by tiebreaker due to this loss.  Now it's not just a game that's "ruined", but an entire postseason.  

[Hemi]

It just needs to be reviewable.

[Hemi]

Well unfortunately, you can't call the game a draw. One person gets the W, one gets the L. So yes, you have to give all the money to him to 'right the wrong' - even though you still won the game (lottery).

Maybe if you came up with a better hypothetical situation so I can answer better, but as it is, you somehow put me in a situation where I can share and make it right. My answer is not flawed, it's the question. 

[shardian]

If you make dead ball plays review-able, it opens up a HUGE can of worms, as has already been stated here. At that point, the refs whistle becomes meaningless. Players will truck on, blindside players, annihilate quarterbacks and kickers, etc.

Noone is arguing that this situation doesn't suck (except for Denver fans). It most definitely sucks. Ideally, SD would have shut down the candy plays that Shanahan thrown them, and made things right. They didn't.

[abrannan]

It just needs to be reviewable.

No good, that doesn't protect the quarterback.  He now needs to dive for any ball that may or may not have his arm in a throwing motion, because if it's reviewed and ruled a fumble, then that's a lost posession.  Also, the refs will have to wait for the ball to go dead before blowing the whistle, because that will affect how the other player go after a downed ball.  For example, if the whistle wasn't blown (i.e. the appropriate call), then maybe the scramble for the ball turns out differently because player X doesn't stop when he hears the whistle.  

[Hemi]

It's tough, but having teams who lost the game end up winning the game and teams who won, lose,  is not the answer. This is a major flaw that compromises the game. This sort of thing cannot happen again.

[shardian]

Oh it can, and it most definitely will. It's the nature of the game. It's why we take the time to watch the game. The NFL is not a life or death matter. It is ENTERTAINMENT. On the entertainment scale, that game was HUGE. People will be talking about it all season. In the grand scheme of things, it is no big deal.

[ChadTower]

If it was as cut-and-dry as this case was with the NFL, I would. Also keep in mind the situations are not the same, in that the team who had wrong done to them was not their fault, where as the guy lost his ticket on his own.

Well lets make it a bit more relevant then. His ticket was 'stolen', and now you are expected to hand over the whole amount.

Only if it was stolen with 70,000 live eyewitnesses and 5 million more eyewitnesses via television.

[abrannan]

It's tough, but having teams who lost the game end up winning the game and teams who won, lose,  is not the answer. This is a major flaw that compromises the game. This sort of thing cannot happen again.

There are blown calls in every game, in every sport.  Sometimes those calls cost teams the game.  It happens.  Life will go on.  The game is no more compromised than it was in the days before instant replay. 

Again I ask, how would you alter the rules to make it "fair"?  It's no use complaining about something if you don't at least have an inkling of how to make it better.

[Hemi]

The ref needs to have some way out of his bad call in some rare situations.

I understand that guys heard the whistle blow and didn't go after the ball, but if we can be honest, the Chargers were the only ones there and would have came up with the ball 99 times out of 100. I think we are better off assuming that much and making it so than just leaving a totally screwed play stand.

[shardian]

[Hemi]

I saw that before, but it was still great that you posted that here and now. 

[shardian]

Just read on espn that the league will consider debating a rule change based on this play in the off-season. Much like the 'down by contact' rule. I think it is a bad call on their part to debate a rule on 'inadvertent whistles' for reasons already stated here. Its a freak play, and the whistle should stay the way it is. The only thing the league needs to do is make sure refs understand to hold off blowing their whistle on plays like that. Let the situation play itself out and then make a ruling.

[shardian]

It's also on record that hockuli walked over to Norv Turner and basically said "I blew it, I'm sorry". 

[Hoopz]

Week 3 pick:  Titans over Texans

[ChadTower]

Just read on espn that the league will consider debating a rule change based on this play in the off-season. Much like the 'down by contact' rule. I think it is a bad call on their part to debate a rule on 'inadvertent whistles' for reasons already stated here. Its a freak play, and the whistle should stay the way it is. The only thing the league needs to do is make sure refs understand to hold off blowing their whistle on plays like that. Let the situation play itself out and then make a ruling.

The refs are already supposed to hold their whistle until they're absolutely sure.  That is the rule.  Hochuli just effed up.  He's human.

As a former player I Can tell you right now that if they start putting grey areas into when player should stop they will err on the side of not stopping.  We're trained from the earliest levels to play 100% until the whistle.  Situations where some guys are letting up and others are still going full speed are very dangerous.  You'll end up with a ton of hits like when Warren Sapp put Chad Clifton out for a year.

[Hemi]

I agree that when the ref blows the whistle that they should stop playing, but how many times do you see when the whistle blew in almost any case where the ball could have been turned over that the players closest to the ball always grab the ball just in case to make sure. That does not mean you have to go ahead and destroy a guy and get a hard hit in, but get the ball in the event it might want to be reviewed.

[ChadTower]

I agree that when the ref blows the whistle that they should stop playing, but how many times do you see when the whistle blew in almost any case where the ball could have been turned over that the players closest to the ball always grab the ball just in case to make sure. That does not mean you have to go ahead and destroy a guy and get a hard hit in, but get the ball in the event it might want to be reviewed.

As soon as it becomes possible it won't be one guy picking up the ball.  It will be one guy picking up the ball and getting his head knocked off by four others.  What you're saying isn't possible.  The only reason that guy gets away with it now is because everyone knows it doesn't matter.

[J_K_M_A_N]

Week 3

New York Giants Over Cincinnati Bengals

[Chris G]

Damn I need to come around here more often... missed this.   

[ChadTower]

Damn I need to come around here more often... missed this.   

At the pace people are dropping out I'll be able to do a second one this year.   

[Malenko]

how am I eliminated? I made a pick, it was highlighted, the giants won
I typed cards cause St.Louis cardinals is the baseball team and Im dumb but the contest says pick the WINNING TEAM not the losing one

[ChadTower]

how am I eliminated? I made a pick, it was highlighted, the giants won

You picked a game that didn't happen.  The Giants didn't play the Cardinals.

[Malenko]

how am I eliminated? I made a pick, it was highlighted, the giants won

You picked a game that didn't happen.  The Giants didn't play the Cardinals.

Rules are simple.  Choose one game each week.  Pick the winner.

pick the winner, and I did

[ChadTower]

Yeah, but you also have to get the game right, because of this rule:

You cannot pick a game with the same team two weeks in a row.  If you pick the Rams over the Titans in week 2, you cannot use either the Rams game or the Titans game in week 3.

We can leave this up to a vote of the remaining contestants, though.  If they say it's cool I'm fine with that.  It's everybody's game, not mine.   

[shardian]

Cut him some slack Chad. It was an honest mistake.

[ChadTower]

Cut him some slack Chad. It was an honest mistake.

I did.  If that's not enough slack I don't know what will be. 

[Malenko]

Yeah, but you also have to get the game right, because of this rule:

You cannot pick a game with the same team two weeks in a row.  If you pick the Rams over the Titans in week 2, you cannot use either the Rams game or the Titans game in week 3.

We can leave this up to a vote of the remaining contestants, though.  If they say it's cool I'm fine with that.  It's everybody's game, not mine.   

ok fair is fair, I cant pick a game with New York Giants, St Louis Rams, Arizona Cardinals, OR Miami Dolphins this week.
 

Chicago Over Tampa Bay

[ChadTower]

ok fair is fair, I cant pick a game with New York Giants, St Louis Rams, Arizona Cardinals, OR Miami Dolphins this week.
 

Chicago Over Tampa Bay

I like that solution.  Works for me.  Not being able to pick against Miami or St Louis is pretty harsh.   

[CCM]

Yeah, but you also have to get the game right, because of this rule:

You cannot pick a game with the same team two weeks in a row.  If you pick the Rams over the Titans in week 2, you cannot use either the Rams game or the Titans game in week 3.

We can leave this up to a vote of the remaining contestants, though.  If they say it's cool I'm fine with that.  It's everybody's game, not mine.   

I say cut him a break and let him stay in...  he picked the winning team and made a mistake on the losing one...



WEEK 3:  New England over Miami

[Cakemeister]

Week 3: Patriots over Dolphins

[Hoopz]

Week 3: Patriots over Dolphins

Glad to see you are ok.   

[shardian]

I'm debating taking Miami over the Pats just for the hell of it...

[shardian]

Ahhh screw it.

WEEK 3:  Miami over the Pats

[abrannan]

Ah, if only I could pick the Bengals to lose their next 5 games...


Week 3: Baltimore over Cleveland

[Matthew Anderson]

Week 3: Giants over Bengals



Oh, and malenko stay...

but make him pick Washington over Dallas next week
 

*edit* I wonder if that'll come back to haunt me next week?

[shardian]

Oh, and malenko stay...

but make him pick Washington over Dallas next week
 

That isn't such a bad pick. Washington closed out that game last week incredibly strong. They definitely have it in them to win that game if they play well.

[ChadTower]

Okay, two guys left to pick:  ClubNinja and markrvp.

[markrvp]

markrvp          Buffalo Bills over Oakland Raiders



This is a tough week - a lot of mediocre teams playing each other.  Many of the underdogs are at home which makes it even tougher to pick against them.

Oh, my "Malenko pick of the week" would have to be the Dallas Mavericks over the LA Dodgers.