*J_K_M_A_N WINS* NFL Last Man Standing Pick 'Em 2008

[somunny]

Damn Sea-chickens! 

[shardian]

Did anyone see the Broncos Chargers game? Cutler fumbles the ball with 1 minute to go, but because the ref blows the whistle and calls the ball dead, the fumble somehow gets overlooked and forgotten about. This is the dumbest rule ever, "I blew my whistle, so no matter what happens, my whistle is right" stupid. So. to make a long story short, the Broncos end up winning the game when they never should have had the ball and in effect, ruined and corrupts the NFL and both teams records. The ref even all but admitted he made a mistake. Fine, you made a mistake, but that does not mean you continue on and let the mistake go and have the wrong team win the game. 

I saw the end of the game, and agree that the ref screwed up. Unfortunately, he was correct in ruling that no matter what, when the whistle blows the play is dead. Anything after the whistle is non-reviewable. It is the same as if the ball rolled out of bounds. In the era of review, the ref should have known to NOT blow his whistle on a questionable play just to be on the safe side.

Having said that, Mike Shanahan gets major respect from me for going for 2. You can't lay down and forfeit because of a blown call - You have to play them as they fall. Giving SD a chance to still win by going for 2 shows his integrity.

[ChadTower]

I wonder if Hemi has ever played football.  The whistle rule is for safety reasons.  The whistle blows everyone stops playing.  If you had some guys still playing and some guys letting up you would see guys getting carted off strapped to boards a lot more often.

[Hemi]

I wonder if Hemi has ever played football.  The whistle rule is for safety reasons.  The whistle blows everyone stops playing.  If you had some guys still playing and some guys letting up you would see guys getting carted off strapped to boards a lot more often.

I don't think I was talking about having guys "still play" I think that goes without saying and is pretty obvious. The players need to follow the ref and his whistle, but the ref does not need to follow his own bad call when he could just rule it a fumble. The play was whistled dead, but the play really still went on and took it's natural coarse as if it was live (as most plays do when a potential turnover is involved). The chargers picked up the fumble and went out of bounds. You can't let the game end on a mistake and have the NFL lose face and have all those hours of gameplay mean nothing and be wasted when you can fix it right there.

[ChadTower]

You also can't change the rules on the fly because you feel like it.  That is the rule - it was a bad call but life goes on.  It wasn't as bad as the first mistake they made when they failed to activate the replay booth and couldn't overturn a turnover that clearly wasn't a fumble.  If people are going to complain about the rules at least complain about the one they failed to get right.

[Hemi]

You're right, the other was worse but this last one just seemed worse because it was at the end of the game.

The only thing I'm after is for the game to turn out how it was supposed to turn out and there should be nothing that ever gets in the way of that.

[Dartful Dodger]

Nuts!  I’m out in the second week!

There wasn't any money on this one so over the weekend when I decided to change my pick to the nyg I forgot(didn't think to) change it here.

Good luck all.

[shardian]

Too bad the Rams couldn't pull it out. 

Well I wait with baited breath to see what the chic pick will be this week.

[Hoopz]

The officials are a part of the game and, being human, they make mistakes.  Just like players and coaches, officials have judgement calls on every play and sometimes make mistakes.

I will say the same thing here that I tell my stepson when he bitches about a call.  When the outcome of a game comes down to one call from an official, the players have to look first at what they did before blaming the officials.  Sure, the blown call was bad, but if SD had played ANY defense yesterday, they still could have won.  Giving up 39 points isnt going to win MANY games at all.  Rivers picks didn't help either.

The replay screwup earlier doesn't help at all, but to blame the loss on the refs does the entire team a dis-service.  We need to teach personal responsibility instead of how to blame others.

[ChadTower]

The officials are a part of the game and, being human, they make mistakes.  Just like players and coaches, officials have judgement calls on every play and sometimes make mistakes.

I will say the same thing here that I tell my stepson when he bitches about a call.  When the outcome of a game comes down to one call from an official, the players have to look first at what they did before blaming the officials.  Sure, the blown call was bad, but if SD had played ANY defense yesterday, they still could have won.  Giving up 39 points isnt going to win MANY games at all.  Rivers picks didn't help either.

The replay screwup earlier doesn't help at all, but to blame the loss on the refs does the entire team a dis-service.  We need to teach personal responsibility instead of how to blame others.

I thoroughly agree.  Bad calls from refs tend to even themselves out over time.  This week, the Chargers get hosed... another week they will benefit from their opponent getting hosed.  Outcomes are determined by players, not officials.

[Hemi]

Outcomes are determined by players, not officials.

Not in this case, it would seem.

[shardian]

  Outcomes are determined by players, not officials.

For the most part, yes. In my experience, a bad plate umpire in baseball can completely control a game. It is despicable, but the youth leagues in my hometown were HORRIBLE with this. The coaches were always the umps of other teams games. For the most part they did right by everyone. There were 2 or 3 that simply took the game way too seriously and blatantly cheated.

You get an ump with a magical changing strike zone and you can without a doubt blame a loss on him. This is one of the reasons I didn't feel too sorry for the ump that had the catcher step out of the way on him.

[ChadTower]

That's not a normal example, though.  That's corruption and an entirely different story.  We were just talking about mistakes.

[shardian]

That's not a normal example, though.  That's corruption and an entirely different story.  We were just talking about mistakes.

Well I won't be surprised if there is at least an inquiry after those two monumental flubs.

That is beside the point though. SD still didn't deserve to win if they can't stop a desperation attempt at a TD AND allow a passing 2pt conversion.

[ChadTower]

Well I won't be surprised if there is at least an inquiry after those two monumental flubs.

That is beside the point though. SD still didn't deserve to win if they can't stop a desperation attempt at a TD AND allow a passing 2pt conversion.

Meh.  If pro sports has proven anything to us it is that it does not inquire into itself.  And the second call doesn't need to be investigated - it was just a blown call.  There was nothing Hochuli could do to fix it.  That's not as bad as the Bucs-Falcons game where the Bucs committed two bad fouls on one turnover play, the ref assigned one of them to the Falcons instead and made them offsetting for a replay of the down... at least that guy reversed himself when someone pointed out that he had it totally wrong.   

[Hemi]

It's ridiculous to say they shouldn't win if the other team got the ball for free and they couldn't stop them. Utterly ludicrous. They should not have the ball and already would have won. That's the game, ball control, and when you give the other team a free shot, how can you say they need to defend the field extra times.

[ChadTower]

That's one score.  It doesn't account for the other 30+ that they also couldn't stop.

[Hemi]

Have you ever heard of a thing called "a come back"? By your rule, if they are leading at the start, then the game is over. That's silly, you can't judge any part of the game based on other times in the game. We are talking about what happened at that point in time and the ref lost the game for the Chargers. Plain and simple. On that day, the NFL, the teams and the fans wasted their day, their time and their money because a stupid rule about a whistle blowing means it can never be corrected.

[ChadTower]

The result of a game is the sum of all things that happened during the game.  Stop a touchdown in the second quarter and they won't have those points in the 4th quarter.  You sound like you've never played a sport before, bro. 

[Hemi]

I really do not need to have, or have not played a sport to know that when you give the other team the ball an extra time, that it's going to drastically reduce the odds of the other team winning the game especially at the end of the game. Now, as far as I'm concerned, the chargers recovered a fumble and DID their job but it was taken away by no fault of their own.

How can you defend a bad call and not see the wrong team won the game?

[ChadTower]

I really do not need to have, or have not played a sport to know that when you give the other team the ball an extra time, that it's going to drastically reduce the odds of the other team winning the game especially at the end of the game. Now, as far as I'm concerned, the chargers recovered a fumble and DID their job but it was taken away by no fault of their own.

How can you defend a bad call and not see the wrong team won the game?

No game is won or lost on one event.  Ever.  A game is 60 minutes of events.

[Hemi]

This is not going anywhere as far as a debate goes. I will never agree in what you say and you obviously will never agree in what I'm saying, and that's fine. Think about this, have a full game play itself out, find the winner, then call the teams back on the field and give one of the teams a free shot to score. Same difference.

[shardian]

How can you defend a bad call and not see the wrong team won the game?

You are right, the Chargers should have won on that play.

Whining about it does not change things. Shanahan acknowledged the blown call and responded by calling a runnning play from 10 yards out on 3rd down. He then called an easily defensible pass play on 4th down. And to give the Chargers one more chance at winning, he called a passing 2pt conversion. He gave them three bona-fide chances at correcting the error. They didn't. Thus, they did not deserve to win the game.

[CheffoJeffo]

No game is won or lost on one event.  Ever.  A game is 60 minutes of events and depends on two teams and some officials, all of whom are fallable and make mistakes.

Fixt.

If everything turned out as it was "supposed to", it would just be a simple exercise of crunching numbers and we wouldn't even bother to watch.

[Hemi]

How can you defend a bad call and not see the wrong team won the game?

You are right, the Chargers should have won on that play.

Whining about it does not change things. Shanahan acknowledged the blown call and responded by calling a runnning play from 10 yards out on 3rd down. He then called an easily defensible pass play on 4th down. And to give the Chargers one more chance at winning, he called a passing 2pt conversion. He gave them three bona-fide chances at correcting the error. They didn't. Thus, they did not deserve to win the game.

You not agreeing with me or liking me does not make it that I "whine" when I have conversations on a fourm. That's the very definition of a forum, is a place to talk about things. I can say every time you post to stop "talking out of your ass" but I don't. Take it easy and stop being so hateful.

[Hemi]

Shanahan should have just had his guys put down the ball and walked off the field. That never would have happened, but it would have been very respectable and nice to see.

[shardian]

I did not mean you in particular. There are several million SD fans out there today whining their asses off. There are also millions of OSU fans whining their asses off and making excuses.  Jeez, don't take everything so personal. I think you give yourself far too much credit.

[Hemi]

I did not mean you in particular. There are several million SD fans out there today whining their asses off. There are also millions of OSU fans whining their asses off and making excuses.  Jeez, don't take everything so personal. I think you give yourself far too much credit.

Yeah, I respect myself far too much. 

[shardian]

Shanahan should have just had his guys put down the ball and walked off the field. That never would happened, but it would have been very respectable and nice to see.

And you think this would be less harmful to the integrity of the league than a blown call?!? That would be a disaster! At the least Shanahan would be banned from the league. Any player who followed him would be suspended and fined. The NFL would be a mess and a laughing stock.

[Ginsu Victim]

Ginsu walks into thread for the first time, sees more arguing, turns around, and exits......

[Hemi]

Ginsu walks into thread for the first time, sees more arguing, turns around, and exits......

No arguing here, only a friendly debate about how the refs let the Broncos win the game. But, don't let that hold you back, you can still leave the thread and feel secure in knowing you will not be missed. 

[Hemi]

Shanahan should have just had his guys put down the ball and walked off the field. That never would happened, but it would have been very respectable and nice to see.

And you think this would be less harmful to the integrity of the league than a blown call?!? That would be a disaster! At the least Shanahan would be banned from the league. Any player who followed him would be suspended and fined. The NFL would be a mess and a laughing stock.

I don't mean actually walk off the field, but have his team down the ball and leave. I think he would have gotten more respect from everyone if he did that, not that it was his fault he ended up with the ball, but he was the only one at that point who could have fixed it.

[Ginsu Victim]

you can still leave the thread and feel secure in knowing you will not be missed. 

Cool. I can sleep tonight.

[shardian]

I agree that it would have been neat to see a kneel, and would have been a great display of sportsmanship. On the flip side, it can also be interpreted as an insult to 'hand the game to a competitor'.

Lets present this hypothetical situation:
You win the million dollar lottery, but another person claims they did too. They have the receipt and a digital photo of them holding the ticket, but they lost their winning ticket. Technically they won too, but due to a technicality you are the sole winner. Would you then voluntarily hand over half of your winnings?

[ChadTower]

you can still leave the thread and feel secure in knowing you will not be missed. 

Cool. I can sleep tonight.

You can try, but if Ed Hochuli blows his whistle, you're going to have to get up and brush your teeth a second time.

[Hemi]

I agree that it would have been neat to see a kneel, and would have been a great display of sportsmanship. On the flip side, it can also be interpreted as an insult to 'hand the game to a competitor'.

Lets present this hypothetical situation:
You win the million dollar lottery, but another person claims they did too. They have the receipt and a digital photo of them holding the ticket, but they lost their winning ticket. Technically they won too, but due to a technicality you are the sole winner. Would you then voluntarily hand over half of your winnings?

If it was as cut-and-dry as this case was with the NFL, I would. Also keep in mind the situations are not the same, in that the team who had wrong done to them was not their fault, where as the guy lost his ticket on his own.

[Hoopz]

I'd like to point out that the NFL officials are the most regulated officials of any American pro sport.  Each play and each call is reviewed after each and every game.  Every official is graded and deals with the errors.  The NFL supports the officials to the extent that they expect perfection, reward those who grade consistently the highest throughout the season with playoff/Super Bowl assignments, and spends a lot of time making sure that any errors that are made don't happen again.  

On a side note, I'd put NHL officials number two with the NBA and MBL somewhere below my toilet ring.

I see the replay issue being totally different than Guns' call.  He made an error, fessed up and went right back to his job.  The replay error wasn't his, he couldn't control it, and is under the assignment of another person/area.  

Don't mean to cause a firestorm in this thread.  Perhaps I am only posting as getting knocked out in the first round sucks!     I just wanna belong!  

[shardian]

If it was as cut-and-dry as this case was with the NFL, I would. Also keep in mind the situations are not the same, in that the team who had wrong done to them was not their fault, where as the guy lost his ticket on his own.

Well lets make it a bit more relevant then. His ticket was 'stolen', and now you are expected to hand over the whole amount.

[Hemi]

I'm not blaming the ref for making a mistake, that's ok and I think he is normally a fine ref, I'm pissed that his hands are tied because he blew his whistle. This rule needs to be changed/altered in some way.

[Hemi]

If it was as cut-and-dry as this case was with the NFL, I would. Also keep in mind the situations are not the same, in that the team who had wrong done to them was not their fault, where as the guy lost his ticket on his own.

Well lets make it a bit more relevant then. His ticket was 'stolen', and now you are expected to hand over the whole amount.

Why the whole thing? What happened to my ticket and the fact that we both won? You may not believe me, but if we were both there and he had proof (in numbers that someone can verify) I would share it.