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For the Metallica/Mortal Kombat Fans.....
TOK:
I used Iced Earth of an example of metal bands that were active in the 90's. I think their first album came out in the early 90's and they were active clear through, so it seemed a good choice.
They are about as straight-forward metal as you can get, something Ummon claimed didn't exist. Metallica may have been lost in the woods for 15 years, but many bands weren't. Slayer was active through the 90's, and bands like Corrosion of Conformity turned from punk influence to straightforward metal in the 90's. Even though Grunge and Alternative pushed metal to the background a bit in the 90's, there are still almost too many bands to mention.
My opinion is that he spoke before he thought, and now finds himself defending an idiotic statement instead of just saying he was mistaken. :dunno
FrizzleFried:
Metallica = Kill `em All to ...and Justice For All
The Beginning of the End = The Black Album
Selloutica (Bob Rockica) = Load (of ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---) up to just before St. Anger
Nutallica (Tin Canica) = St. Anger (wouldn't have been so bad if Lars snare drum didn't sound like a tin can lid)
Re-Tryica = Death Magnetic
I actually, for the first time in many years, LIKE some of the songs on their new album. I simply could not STAND Load or anything since then... Bob Rock can suck ---my bottom---...dude killed Metallica. NOW, this album has 4 or 5 good tunes...a couple of OK...and some ass. I compare it to The Black Album...maybe even a hair better....at least it is listenable.
If you look on my juke I have EVERY Metallica Album...labeled as above (Metallica, Selloutica, Nutallica...but I did go back to Metallica for Death Magnetic).
TOK:
You could even start to hear the cracks in And Justice For All... Lars was trying to be the Lead Drummer. Lots of ticking and other goofy stuff with the drums very up-front in the mix. Since he was also doing some interesting timing changes and stuff I didn't really notice until later stuff came out, then I went back to Justice. Great album, but definite signs of bad things to come.
I totally love one song during their era that I hate... Hero Of The Day is a great song, but Hetfield doesn't have the range to pull it off. He still sounds kind of corny on some of the Death Magnetic stuff too. He's trying something harder, but sounds kind of funny doing it.
Ummon:
Ginsu, there are conditions of quality. If it's a TV or something, then people are okay with that. But if it's something like music, then nope that's not cool. They like it so it just must be good. As well, there are things that explain music and can explain all music in pop culture. Pop culture doesn't even have anything that can explain its own music, let alone determine quality.
No, those bands aren't leaning towards classical 'style', as I mentioned. Yes on jazz fusion, but jazz is essentially a pop culture music so big deal. There's all kinds of stuff in jazz with ridiculous names that weren't new when they came out in it and weren't really a big deal anyway.
TOK, I've read up on Meshuggah (though I have the tools to understand what they're doing just by listening). They're not doing anything remarkable. Decades ago, composers like Phillip Glass were doing monophonic or parallel voiced repetitive lines that changed - but it was all within the bar line, which makes for very harsh rhythmic changes. Beyond this, there is no polyphony, no harmony in Meshuggah. There's little polyphony/harmony in most metal - and parallel thirds, fourths, and fifths don't count. As well, there's little syncopation, most of the meters (not times Ginsu - time is tempo) are 4/4, and in any case the bar line is a draconian boundary in this music - in most music in pop culture.
The best you're going to find is Cynic's Focus ('94) - and maybe their new stuff, which hasn't been released yet.
Oh, wait....Watchtower actually had some polyphonic, contrapuntal stuff. Kinda weak, particularly metal-wise, but definitely thought-out. And Atheist had some brief stuff on Unquestionable Presence.
Slayer: lame after Seasons of the Abyss. This is not any comment about the absence of Lombardo. They just played out their gig.
CoC: for those who didn't like their earlier stuff, Blind was great, and then they wanked into mainstream.
After Metallica's black album, a lot of bands followed suit - Testament, Megadeth, Sacred Reich, Anthrax after Persistance of Time - through about '95. (Even Pantera's Far Beyond Driven was a mix.) Even death metal was reaching a peak by Carcass' Heartwork, and really the death knell was Suffocation's Pierced from Within. You couldn't get any heavier, and nobody did anything smarter. Still haven't. There is a recent band Alaska whose members can read music and they score their pieces - but they're not composers and their pieces are generally monophonic and simplistic.
On the wiki thing: I felt they were asking questions pretty basic questions. If you want to nursemaid them, fine. I was merely indicating they had a resource other than you.
MK3FAN:
--- Quote from: TOK on September 14, 2008, 09:38:07 pm ---You could even start to hear the cracks in And Justice For All... Lars was trying to be the Lead Drummer. Lots of ticking and other goofy stuff with the drums very up-front in the mix. Since he was also doing some interesting timing changes and stuff I didn't really notice until later stuff came out, then I went back to Justice. Great album, but definite signs of bad things to come.
I totally love one song during their era that I hate... Hero Of The Day is a great song, but Hetfield doesn't have the range to pull it off. He still sounds kind of corny on some of the Death Magnetic stuff too. He's trying something harder, but sounds kind of funny doing it.
--- End quote ---
Lars admits in the 1992 issue of Modern Drummer he was in, that he recorded "Justice" in sections because most of the songs were too hard to play all the way through. You can actually hear where the reels were spliced together from the different sections he recorded while listening to the album. There's a great example on "to live is to die".
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