What you are calling a dedicated shifter, I am calling the toggle shifter
I think the problem here is that you are trying to use terminology that seems to make sense in the programatical perspective. Not the end user perspective.
The thing is.. in Arcade-Speak, 'Dedicated' is a term most often used to describe original or real.. such as a Dedicated Robotron. Not a conversion, but a real factory made original Robotron. We also tend to think of it as a term for original controllers. Like a Dedicated 4way, Star Wars Yoke, Daytona Usa Shifter...etc.
(Not some generic controller or button/software hack)
A dedicated shifter = real arcade hardware shifter
As for "Toggle".. again, you are terming things in a way that seems to make sense for your end of things... but, the problem is... a real Arcade shifter toggles. It goes from on to off. Even '2-switch 2-ways' toggle (in the users eyes).
4,5 or 6 way shifters do not toggle. That more or less described as "Sequential".
Sequential Shifters.
.... toggle up toggles from 1 to 2 to 3 to ect and back again once it reaches the top gear.
You would NEVER want to "Cycle" (toggle isnt the correct term) gears from 1 to 6, then back from 6 to 1...ect.
Auto-Reversing and or Looping a Cycle is a horrible idea.
The only Auto-Cycle that works in some instances... is the 2 button paddle button shifts. They cycle either up or down depending on button pressed, and stop at either highest or lowest gear. Never looping around, nor auto-reversing the cycle.
And even on their best days, are not good as real positional shifters. (they might work fine with real cars.. however, with a real car, you can hear & feel the engine revs, so are very clear as to what gear your in, never getting 'lost')
if you have no choice you can use a 1 button toggle pushbutton,
Why would you have No Choice? If we were talking about a person that didnt have a spinner... or a Starwars yoke.. I could understand. However, we are talking about ONE SINGLE BUTTON. Geez... are you really saying that people cant handle that? Almost every modern console since (and even before) PS1, has had games that use at least 2buttons to shift up/down.
The ONLY exception to this rule would be an impaired person who couldnt operate games well. If thats the case... add a disability option in there. But dont mess it up for people who do have fine functionality. There should never be a Loss of control for the sake of pleasing everyone with a sub-par workaround. That ruins the entire games intended experience, and designed playability.
so if you used this setting you could still toggle from low to hi with a single button. You don't have to, but you can.
With a centered or paddle shifter, you can already toggle hi to low fine.. because they are press and release. However, if you are talking single switch 2 position shifters, then No, it WONT work.
Also, In the electronics world of terminology, a Two position switch thats either On or Off.. and held in place in either position, is called a "Toggle Switch".
Something like a push-button switch (micro-switch) is what they call a "Momentary Switch". It breaks contact once you let it go. This is yet another reason why "Toggle" isnt accurate when describing Cycled Gears.
A Daytona USA sequential shifter has 4 momentary switches in it. Theres no toggling to be found... And when a user looks at mame to configure and interface controls.. it should at very least, be in line with electrical terminology. And should be something that makes sense to a person hooking up controllers. Not something that makes sense to a programmers programatical logic.
Yes hardware original would be different for each game and yes it would be impossible to use this setting on a generic mame cab for all games without a ton of shifters.
Theres not that many variations, and theres No reason whatsoever that a generic TOGGLE (electrical terminology) function couldnt be used in replace of Mometary inputs, at the users end.
You obviously can't play hard-drivin or crusin usa on said cabinet anyway. Btw those two games would have different input settings for hw original and if you mame those cabs, the shifters would work without hacking. That is the point of that setting.
If all methods of input are realized, then Yes, you COULD play both games in the same cabinet. Almost all All "hardware" is relative to each other. Theres Analog Pots, Switches, and Tracking Optics.
I Love the idea that for example, one day, if my Sega Turbo died... that I could hook up the real OPTICAL switch Pedal set, and configure it to work correctly with mame. On the other hand... if I didnt have the pedal.. and couldnt get a Turbo Pedal anymore... Id want the Option to be able to substitute either a digital pedal.. or an analog pot pedal.
FYI - Turbo uses a 4 position Dual Optical-Switches, gas pedal. It has 4 states:
1) 0 / 0 = Off (no gas)
2) 1 / 0 = Speed 1
3) 1 / 1 = Speed 2
4) 0 / 1 = Speed 3
In many games, the hacks already exist, such as in Turbo.. you Can in fact use an analog pedal. However, some of these hacks should be able to be turned off, of the user does not want their interference. As some of them actually effect the game negatively, and or make the game less playable with real hardware.
the main thing you've got to keep consistant for each setting is the number of inputs, not their usage.
What does it matter how many inputs are able to be used? Already, many games have a ton of controller options in the menu system. Nobody has ever complained.
IMO, there should be some separations however, so that non-original controller inputs & hacks, are placed in their Own menu heading. That way, anyone can see the true games input methods.. and then decide how they want to interface with it from there. Without this, a person has to do a lot of research to figure out what the heck controlled the real game. This information can be very obscure for rare games... and even on well know games.. may one day be forgotten.
You guys are acting like it's set in stone anyway. I'm jsut throwing ideas at the wall here.
Not at all. Just frusterated at the lack of support for Certain kinds of input hardware... and hopeful for good support and flexibility that we desire, in the best ways possible.
Regarding the analog shifters... I know they are crap, but there isn't a generic arcade equivelent anyway. If you want to go hardcore you use the guts of the cheap consumer level shifter and hack em
Hard Drivin's Shifter is one of the best shifters ever build actually. However, its also not very complicated to replicate. Its a rod attached to a standard door hinge!
And some pots with pot levers. If support for analog shifters was usable on digital games... then its possible that some of the hardware people would take such a product for the mame community... as that simply is one of the best ways to interface with all? of mames shifter games. (with a slight mod for the top plate in 6 and possibly 7 positions)