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| MAME Driver Patch for Hardware Gear Shift Support |
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| BadMouth:
It has to start somewhere. A simple fix for games that used Hi/Lo shifters is all most people really need. Currently these games don't play properly with any type of shifter and that just sucks. FWIW, I'd consider ditching the TOGGLE option altogether and just having two options: 1. HW Original. 2. Having separate latching inputs to Hi and Lo. I think this would work better for people using a keyboard or gamepad anyway. (if you hit Hi while you're already in Hi, it wouldn't slow you down) It would also work perfectly for those using paddle or sequential shifters. If someone wanted to take it farther, they could use these to cycle up and down through the gears on the 4 speed games. I think if you did a couple drivers people would realize how much better these games play without the toggle and maybe somoene would take an interest in fixing the others. |
| Xiaou2:
Ok, I understand what you mean now. --- Quote ---Toggle shifter would toggle through all the gears via a single input... this is how the hi/low shifters are currently setup, but I would like to expand this functionality to the 4+ gear shifters as well. It's all coding... there isn't any reason not to. --- End quote --- Personally, I dont see the point in this mode. For one, the toggle mode sucks on 2way shift games, and it would be even worse on 4,5 & 6 way games. Because as stated, most of them will penalize you too much for going from 6 to 1. You will lose every time doing that crap. And if you did it in a real race car, you would destroy the thing. --- Quote ---Dedicated Shifter would split each gear out to a seperate input, regardless of if the original game supported it. This would be the best setting for pc shifters and speed paddles. Again, it's just coding, there isn't anything special to add it in. --- End quote --- This is what confused me. When you say separates gears into individual inputs... you think of, for instance, having to press A for 1st, B for 2nd..etc. When in fact, it seems now that you are talking about a 2 input paddle-shift mode. A 2 input paddle mode (cycle up gears, cycle down gears) is far superior to a single input cycle. Its an Ok addition, for those who dont yet have a hardware shifter. --- Quote ---HW Original, would output the gearshift with the original hardware switches, so pole position would only remain in high gear if the shifter button is held... ect. This is the reason I'm HOPING that such additions would be accepted. MAME is all about preservation and yet the current input method for shifters is NOT arcade accurate. --- End quote --- Then this mode would have to over-ride the other mode... because they do in fact work differently. The thing is... when you select hardware mode in one game... it could be completely different on another game. An example would be a game which has a 2way shifter wired up with 2 switches... but You only have a single switch 2way shifter. There are other such examples, and this would create problems, needing several shifters just top be able to play all the games correctly. Its far better, IMO, to allow whatever hardware is available, to be able to utilize and control the game well. Not just the keyboard players, and not just the originally switches/wired shifter. And furthermore, I agree with Badmouth, that for those with keyboards or gamepads, would prefer two inputs for 2-way shifting. For one, It keep you from accidentally pressing shift too many times. For another, the game always starts in the correct gear. (no accidental toggle to switch gear positions on you, from a fresh game boot, or a saved-state boot) As for the comments about not wanting a shifter on a non-dedicated driver cabinet.. thats Opinion. Many people enjoy playing multiple game types on one cab... and do dedicate many various controllers to do so. For one, not everyone has enough money and space for multiple cabs. Admittedly, Id prefer Andy or others to make an advanced software / hardware gearing solution. That way things would work with any game, and not just mame ... should mame get the ability for analog translation patched up. It might even interest the Sim-Racer crowds as well. However, Its always nice to interface things without needing $300 in various encoders as well. One can always start off basic & cheaply, then buy additional enhanced encoders when they have the extra money. And FYI - all the currently made off-the-store shelf multi-shifters Suck. They are cheap plastic crap, that will most likely break apart in a few yrs tops. They simply dont hold a candle to a well made arcade shifter, or a well designed custom built mechanism. The shelf-companies cut as many corners on quality as they can get away with. Even besides the durability issues.. the hardware does not 'feel' right. Which is why many racing Sim players spend oogles of money buying custom built controllers from small 'no-name' custom building companies. |
| Howard_Casto:
god love you Xiaou2, you are still confused. What you are calling a dedicated shifter, I am calling the toggle shifter.... toggle up toggles from 1 to 2 to 3 to ect and back again once it reaches the top gear. Toggle down toggles from 3 to 2 to 1 ect... again looping if you go to far. This way if you have no choice you can use a 1 button toggle pushbutton, but you can also use a centered shifter or speed paddles with the same input system... basically I'm killing two birds with one stone. The reason I call it a toggle shifter is because of the looping effect. This would replace mame's current shifter method so if you used this setting you could still toggle from low to hi with a single button. You don't have to, but you can. Dedicated IS a single input for each gear. As in each gear gets a dedicated input. Yes hardware original would be different for each game and yes it would be impossible to use this setting on a generic mame cab for all games without a ton of shifters. This is why you wouldn't use this setting for a generic mame cab, you would use it for a dedicated one. ;) Say you have a pole position cab and the board is dead... you can put a pc in it and run mame with this setting and not have to hack up your shifter... that is ALL this setting is good for. You obviously can't play hard-drivin or crusin usa on said cabinet anyway. Btw those two games would have different input settings for hw original and if you mame those cabs, the shifters would work without hacking. That is the point of that setting. With all of that being said.... some of what badmouth is suggesting IS doable and there would be no reason not to do it that way, the main thing you've got to keep consistant for each setting is the number of inputs, not their usage. Toggle mode is always going to utilize two buttons, so on hi/lo game it would be possible to remove the looping function... but what you are forgetting is you also have the dedicated inputs for that function. So you'll have dedicated hi and low buttons if you select that option. You guys are acting like it's set in stone anyway. I'm jsut throwing ideas at the wall here. ;) Regarding the analog shifters... I know they are crap, but there isn't a generic arcade equivelent anyway. If you want to go hardcore you use the guts of the cheap consumer level shifter and hack em. ;) |
| BadMouth:
--- Quote from: Howard_Casto on December 29, 2011, 07:52:45 am ---Toggle mode is always going to utilize two buttons --- End quote --- Sorry Howard, but that one makes even me :dizzy: (I've followed fine up to there) I associate TOGGLE with a single button that toggles ON/OFF. That's the way MAME currently utilizes PORT_TOGGLE. Maybe you could say "step mode" instead of toggle mode. I'd refer to the shifter itself as a sequential shifter. I understand that technically each button is a toggle and it may cycle through more than two states, but still. Looping if going too far would be a horrible thing and partially defeat the purpose IMO. Don't waste too much of your time on semantics. ;) |
| BadMouth:
From an end user standpoint, the Hi/Lo shifters could be as simple as this in the menu: Hi Gear Lo Gear HW Hi Gear (doesn't latch) It would involve more work to do, but a simpler interface for the end user could be: Hi Gear Lo Gear (defaults to latching) ....and then have an option somewhere else to make the gears not latch. (which would allow it to work with the original shifter) This way the majority of users who know nothing about the original shifter won't be confused. For the 4 speed games (sometime down the road), I'd just add Shift Up and Shift Dn as options. 1st Gear 2nd Gear 3rd Gear 4th Gear Shift Up Shift Dn (all can be assigned and used simultaneously) Gears would only latch if the Shift Up & Dn buttons are used. Any more rambling will just be a rehash of previous threads that went nowhere. :lol |
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