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MAME Driver Patch for Hardware Gear Shift Support

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Howard_Casto:

Well this project would have to "get in line" unfortuantely. 

I've still got a pending release of mamehooker.... it'll add better support for force feedback wheels.  Then I've got the now ancient outrun drivers I have to modify and submit that'll add output support in mame.  I also got a new monitor for my main mame cab, which means it's overhaul time and a tablet, which spurned a micro project to upgrade the "info" format. 

Lots of stuff.... I'll get to it eventually.  The main problem is it wouldn't be a drop in piece of code, one would have to modify the driver of every single game with a shifter.    Perhaps I could do one or two games as a sample and submit it to mame dev?  And maybe I could get some of the other devs to help out.

I want to do it like they did the driver for 720.  Each shifter game should have a "driver configuration" option in the UI.  Your selections would be "toggle shifter", "dedicated shifter" and "hw original". 

Toggle shifter would toggle through all the gears via  a single input... this is how the hi/low shifters are currently setup, but I would like to expand this functionality to the 4+ gear shifters as well.  It's all coding... there isn't any reason not to. 

Dedicated Shifter would split each gear out to a seperate input, regardless of if the original game supported it.  This would be the best setting for pc shifters and speed paddles.  Again, it's just coding, there isn't anything special to add it in.

HW Original, would output the gearshift with the original hardware switches, so pole position would only remain in high gear if the shifter button is held... ect.  This is the reason I'm HOPING that such additions would be accepted.  MAME is all about preservation and yet the current input method for shifters is NOT arcade accurate.

Xiaou2:


--- Quote ---Toggle shifter would toggle through all the gears via  a single input... this is how the hi/low shifters are currently setup, but I would like to expand this functionality to the 4+ gear shifters as well.  It's all coding... there isn't any reason not to.
--- End quote ---
 

 I think the problem would be in downshifting.  You would have to always drop from last gear to 1st gear, rather than just one or two gears down.  Many games penalize you drastically if you drop too many gears. I believe Ridge Racer is one of them.

Dedicated Shifter - Im not sure what you mean by this one.  However, something to remember, is that there are several kinds of hardware shifters.  Many have different number of switches, some wired switches together to get states, and even analog shifters as well:


2 Gear Shifter

 1 Switch    :  Held on / Released
 2 Switches :  Separated Inputs
 2 Switches :  Center Sprung (which results in 3 possible states)

4 Position H-Shifter

 4 SW  :Hold down for State. In-Between(nothing pressed) = 5th state of Neutral
 2 SW  :Wired together for X & Y on/off states
 3 SW  :Wired X/Y, but with 3rd switch. (better neutral state ability?)

6 Position Shifter

 - Same as 4way above, but with more switches
 - Some may block off a gear, and use one position as a reverse. (5way)

Analog Shifters

 - The original Race Drivin / Hard Drivin, uses two pots to determine the gear.
The determination is in the game itself, and usually requires in-game calibration.

 The Analog Shifters are also being used by many Sim-Racers, hacking analog force feedback joysticks. The feedback making a simulation of the resistance of gear changes, and any other related forces in gearing.

 A big advantage in pot-based gearing, is superior durability.  Daytona USA microswitch based shifters were always breaking down in my Arcade, from switch failures. Where as the Race Drivin shifters were rock solid for years at a time.

ANALOG SLIDER

 - Not quite a Shifter... Afterburner uses a Center Sprung Throttle.
 - I dont recall any sequential slider gear shifters. However, there might be some, and they Could be made.

========

 Regardless of the many kinds of shifters out there... the biggest and most immediate problem is lack of ability to Hold down a state, due to the keyboard-hack driver situation.

 A simple "Arcade Shifter" switch/function could be used to change that, to switch between the hacked mame driver keyboard-pulse-switching, and the true arcade held-down method, of input.


 In the long haul, I think it would be better to tell mame what kind of controller you have... and the driver adapts to that controller type. Removing or graying out any options which are not needed.  (IE: Mame: I have a Spinner... so you can remove/hide/lock  'auto-centering'  options)


Howard_Casto:

Analog shifters are indeed a problem, but they are a different animal anyway, the best way to do those is via the software that comes with the shifter.  Most logitec rigs, for example allow you to map a specific analog value to a keystroke. 

By dedicated shifter, I mean each shift position gets a dedicated input.  It has nothing to do with the hardware.

As for the toggle issue you are talking about, obviously on games with more than two gears you would need a toggle up and toggle down switch.  One scrolls through the gears in order, the other in reverse order.

You can hold down a state in mame just fine.  Mame accesses the keyboard at a very low level, so repeat rates are ignored.  I'm not sure what you mean by that.



Xiaou2:


--- Quote ---Analog shifters are indeed a problem, but they are a different animal anyway, the best way to do those is via the software that comes with the shifter.  Most logitec rigs, for example allow you to map a specific analog value to a keystroke.
--- End quote ---

 As far as I remember, there are programs to Map restrictions to analog sticks, that people have been using on the Ultimarc stick, and maybe others as well.  I think something similar could be done for Shifter mapping on any analog control.

 If for example, you want to use multiple analog controls, its far better to use an all-in-one encoder, such as the U-HID... rather than to hack apart 3 to 6 analog controllers.  As such, you wouldnt have any software to be able to be used for that purpose... unless Andy decided to release some. Same goes for other sticks that might not have all the needed output settings.

 Of course, analog shifters, besides in their natural state in Hard/Race Drivin... and those others that support them, are all I really care about.  Its just a nice option to be able to use that type of shifter on other games as well.  The HD shifter is one of the best made (durable), and greatest feeling shifters ever made.



--- Quote ---By dedicated shifter, I mean each shift position gets a dedicated input.  It has nothing to do with the hardware.
--- End quote ---

 Ok. I think I get you.  The external nature -vs- the internal nature + the actual driver hackage... all leads up to a lot of confusion as to what things mean.

 To be clear... Do you mean "2 way 2 switch shifters" ?  Or 4 & 6 way shifters?

 If a single switch 2way shifter  operates 2 outputs, then how will things pan out?
As in that case, the case of most of our current problems... its not just the mapping problem.. but lack of a mapped toggle ability.



--- Quote ---As for the toggle issue you are talking about, obviously on games with more than two gears you would need a toggle up and toggle down switch.  One scrolls through the gears in order, the other in reverse order.
--- End quote ---

 - That would work for paddle shifters, where the switch opens then closes immediately.  However, most 2way shifters use a single switch.  Even IF you had a 2 switch shifter... one switch is Always going to be on.  In that setup, there would be no way to cycle thru multiple gears in both directions.

 FYI, paddle shifters dont work well for many racing games.  The downshifting quickly after a crash is a PITA.  Where as a physical location based gear, is an instant thoughtless and swift single-move action.


--- Quote ---You can hold down a state in mame just fine.  Mame accesses the keyboard at a very low level, so repeat rates are ignored.  I'm not sure what you mean by that.
--- End quote ---

 Ahh yeah, I meant that the current driver hacks do not allow correct interfacing.


Howard_Casto:

I think you are confused.  You don't get a chioce of one of the three methods, all are available as an option. 

And no, you can't use a pole position shifter for any games other than games with a hi/low shifter, but that is a hardware fault, not a software one.  The point of the hw original setting would be if you happen to have a PP cab and you wish to mame it, the shifter would work.  A standard hi/low shifter would NOT be suitable for a generic mame cab. 

If terms of analog controls, I'm not suggesting you hack anything (although you could) I'm suggesting you buy a dedicated analog shifter.  Most of the nicer ones have removable shifting plates for various configurations and like I said, software that outputs keystrokes instead of an analog value.  There is really nothing stopping Andy and the others from writing software to do the same thing though..... It would be a simple firmwave change to have the devices read the analog values as normal but output keystrokes instead.  It might even be possible via pure software, but MAME is touchy about sending fake keystrokes. 

Regardless, it is doubtful that the mame team would accept a submission that supported analog values for digital inputs.  It's just a lot of translating code to add for a dedicated device.  Mame is all about being generic, unfortunately.

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