What makes a good pinball machine?

[johnmartin]

Here is a question for all you pinball fanatics out there, and mind you is is very subjective based on the person. 

What do you look for that in a machine that makes it a GOOD pin? Lots of ramps, toys, multi-ball, skill shots?  Or just smooth game flow?  Curiosity is driving me to ask even though it is so subjective.

Comments as always are appreciated.

On a side note, does anyone know where I might be able to get CAD templates of various pinball parts?  If I can't find any I need to order some parts to make templates from.

John

[shardian]

Yep, you hit the nail on the head with subjective. I'll give you my analysis though.

First off, the game has to be visually appealing. It needs to have a colorful and original art package that grabs my attention. It also has to have a good light show.

Next, the game has to have good sound. Annoying music or sounds, or poor sound quality can kill a great game. For instance, I love Black Knight, but the sounds annoy the crap out of me.

As to rules, I'm not a huge fan of overcomplicated rule sets. I like to accomplish most of the game goals in a good round of playing without taking an hour. Games that have a laundry list of things you have to accomplish overwhelm the casual player.

And finally, we have the playfield features. The most important aspect to me is game flow. Many dmd era games have 2 ramps, 2 loops, and a ball trap or two. That is pretty much all you shoot for - you either hit those 5 or 6 shots or you hit a post or bumper. If a game only has a few shots, it better damn well have a great theme. For instance, I love Scared Stiff. It is not a very complicated game. I mostly have to agree with the detractors that the game is way too easy. It really doesn't matter though - the game is attractive, has a great art and DMD package, EXCELLENT sound package, great use of playfield toys, and decent ball flow.

While I love Scared Stiff, it is lacking my most favorite playfield feature - Drop Targets. I simply love Drop Targets. You get instant mechanical feedback of your accomplishments, along with a visual log of what targets you have hit. You have limitless shot opportunities all over the playfield. You have multiple goals at any one time. Some games like Black Knight and Grand Lizard have timed drop target banks to make things even more interesting and intense.

So after saying that, I desire to have 3 games eventually:
Scared Stiff - as an overall great pin - and represents the DMD era.

Funhouse - It has a sentimental spot from my youth, and has a killer theme and light show. It also represents the later stage SS genre.

(Insert Drop Target centric title here) - I really don't have a title picked out yet, but it doesn't matter. Eventually a drop target game will fill my 3rd spot. It may just end up being a Black Knight if one falls into my lap. Of course, it could just as easily be an EM or SS poker game. Either way, it will represent an older form of pinball in which the drop target was so often a prominent star.

[Mauzy]

Ive always been drawn to unique toys like Rudy's head in Funhouse and the supercharger in Getaway and the POWERFIELD in Twilight Zone.
 
Im also the kind of person who is suckered in by a theme that i like, even if it isnt the most innovative game like Simpsons Pinball Party. The fact that SPP used the original voice actors is enough for me to pump a few dollars into one anytime I can find it. On the other side, I wont even play South Park because I dont care for the show (It is seeming to get better though)

I like special play modes, or modes that have an interesting toy attached to them. Twilight Zone comes to mind with its POWERBALL. The Seance in Addams Family always kills me with the magnets. (btw, are those made to shoot your ball right between the flippers to drain???)

I know AF and TZ aren't a lot of "hardcore" pinball players favorites, but I still love the machines as a whole. AF has some good sound and excellent lighting, but most of the shots are pretty easy. TZ has pretty good sound (Serling's voice could stand to be clearer, especially when near other games) and a cool ruleset. And the integration of references to the original series seems to be well done.

Bride of Pinbot is high on my list for the rolling head in the center of the playfield. Its also kind of interesting when you're in the middle of an arcade with both kids and adults and she moans. Ha. The only BoPB I can find has the sound really loud too.

I don't like the scoring in some games though. It not how the playfield items are valued, but the fact that games like the local Theatre of Magic have the replay set to 300,000,000. Now thats not impossible to do and I know that its all relative to the values on the playfield, but its rather off putting when you walk past a machine with that kind of value on it. If I had no knowledge of the machines and i found two machines: one with a replay of 300,000,000 or one with 7,000,000 , i would play the latter. 

Just my 2 cents...

[Xiaou2]

 While everything has its importance in Pinball...  the main thing to try to get down
is a great flow.

 Games like  Theatre of Magic  have a fast and fluid ball flow.   If you are good..  you
can really get the ball moving all over the place.   It gets so fast that it pumps up the
adrenalin trying to keep it from draining as it rockets every which way.

 Some people prefer  Stop-n-Shots.   A game in which the flow isnt very good... but
you have to be more accurate in setting up sequential target shots.   To me.. .its just to
slow and boring.   However... everyone has different tastes.


 A friend of mine had a  Space Station.   That game has a shot on it thats
nearly impossible to make.   Because of it... you would try endlessly to get that
shot.. and jump for joy when it happened  (on the 10th+  game!).    Games whos shots
are all easy to make can become too boring very quickly.   Its nice to throw in at least
one difficult shot in there.  (Yet  not so difficult that its like hitting the lotto    )

 
 A few ramps are nice to keep the ball flow going..  and it gives you a rewarding
feeling if you make that shot.  However... a game like T3 which has a zillion ramps
which all tie into each other is rather stupid.   Nearly every shot is a ramp... and all of
them take the ball back to you.  Ugg.

 
 Toys are nice...  But,  they should have a cool function.  Not just be an animated
puppet.   Medieval Madness has a castle door/drawbridge that actually lowers
when hit several times.   This is a great example of a cool and functional toy.
Monster Bash has a Dracula character that moves on a track back and forth
which you are trying to nail him.    Excellent toy.   


 And yeah... I also prefer drop targets to switch based targets.   There is a much greater
sense of accomplishment when you see them go down.

[shardian]

 And yeah... I also prefer drop targets to switch based targets.   There is a much greater
sense of accomplishment when you see them go down.

I think that is one of the subconscious reasons I like Elvis pinball when most don't - the 5 bank chunky drop targets. The drop target bank was broken on the route Elvis I play last weekend, and the game completely lost its fun value.

[johnmartin]

OK, here is a question regarding drop targets.  How do they reset?  Is it software controlled or when the last one goes down the assembly resets?  I am planning on implementing at least 2 banks of 3-4 in my machine and would like to know.  Thanks.

John

[shardian]

OK, here is a question regarding drop targets.  How do they reset?  Is it software controlled or when the last one goes down the assembly resets?  I am planning on implementing at least 2 banks of 3-4 in my machine and would like to know.  Thanks.

John

A solenoid fires to reset them. As to when they reset, that is controlled by the cpu. For different games, they reset at different times. Here are some basic rules used to reset them:

-dropping the entire bank results in a reset, and advances the bonus or lites a special. Sometimes you have to score the special to reset the drop targets.
-a timer initiates when one target is knocked down. you then have a few seconds to knock the rest down, or else the whole bank resets.
- Some games have a targets or bumpers behind drop target banks that score higher points (Mr. and Mrs. Pacman is a good example. You have to knock down the drop targets to get to them. The drop targets do not reset until you achieve something, drain a ball, or sometimes not until a new game is started.

[JeepMonkey]

In my first, older pinball, when the ball drained, everything reset and you started over.  My newer pinball machine does not reset any of the current positoisn of things.  You pretty much pick up where you left off.  I like this feature better than everything being reset.

[johnmartin]

OK, here is a question regarding drop targets.  How do they reset?  Is it software controlled or when the last one goes down the assembly resets?  I am planning on implementing at least 2 banks of 3-4 in my machine and would like to know.  Thanks.

John

A solenoid fires to reset them. As to when they reset, that is controlled by the cpu. For different games, they reset at different times. Here are some basic rules used to reset them:

-dropping the entire bank results in a reset, and advances the bonus or lites a special. Sometimes you have to score the special to reset the drop targets.
-a timer initiates when one target is knocked down. you then have a few seconds to knock the rest down, or else the whole bank resets.
- Some games have a targets or bumpers behind drop target banks that score higher points (Mr. and Mrs. Pacman is a good example. You have to knock down the drop targets to get to them. The drop targets do not reset until you achieve something, drain a ball, or sometimes not until a new game is started.

So are they pulled down by spring action when hit?  I would not think that gravity would be enough to pull them down when hit.  I looked on the Marco website and saw a good pic of how the solenoid resets them.

[shardian]

OK, here is a question regarding drop targets.  How do they reset?  Is it software controlled or when the last one goes down the assembly resets?  I am planning on implementing at least 2 banks of 3-4 in my machine and would like to know.  Thanks.

John

A solenoid fires to reset them. As to when they reset, that is controlled by the cpu. For different games, they reset at different times. Here are some basic rules used to reset them:

-dropping the entire bank results in a reset, and advances the bonus or lites a special. Sometimes you have to score the special to reset the drop targets.
-a timer initiates when one target is knocked down. you then have a few seconds to knock the rest down, or else the whole bank resets.
- Some games have a targets or bumpers behind drop target banks that score higher points (Mr. and Mrs. Pacman is a good example. You have to knock down the drop targets to get to them. The drop targets do not reset until you achieve something, drain a ball, or sometimes not until a new game is started.

So are they pulled down by spring action when hit?  I would not think that gravity would be enough to pull them down when hit.  I looked on the Marco website and saw a good pic of how the solenoid resets them.

Yeah, they are held in place with tension. When you bump them off the catch, they get pulled down.

[johnmartin]

Thanks.  That is what I thought but I needed to ask.  I don't want the rule set on this machine to be very complicated so it is likely that one set of drop targets will be timed (likely the one to drive a special) and the other will likely be reset on last down, and both will reset on new ball.

[johnmartin]

Alright.  A lot of good replies so far.

So here's another question.  Do you prefer ball launches similar to Family Guy or Shrek or ones that go all the way to the top of the playfield?

John

[Mauzy]

Yeah. Skill shot is always fun!

[johnmartin]

I strongly prefer them to go to the top of the playfield.  There needs to be some level of skill involved with how you plunge.  To do otherwise just lessens the amount of interactivity.

Are we talking about skill to get the ball to fall through a specific top lane?  Or would a couple targets at the top be a good idea to give yourself a couple things to shoot at and a couple rollovers in the shooting lane to set a specific target as active?

I have looked at photos of a lot of pins and there are so many options you are virtually unlimited in what you can do it seems.

[Xiaou2]

 Skill shots can be almost anything.

 In some games... they give the ball enough time to get down to the flipper.  You then
have a mere few seconds left to shoot a specific ramp, loop, or target.   Usually its a one
shot chance.