Laminate: Thickness/UK Suppliers/Working with

[Franco B]

I was planning on using signwriters vinyl to cover my cabinet in but its just going to be too thin and will easily mark. I don't want to put all this time, effort and money into my project just to end up marking the cabinet a couple of months down the road.

I think the only real solution is to cover the cabinet in Formica. Does formica come in a standard thickness?

The MDF I am using is 18mm thick and I'm using 3/4" t-moulding (19.05mm) so at present the t-moulding stands out slightly. 0.5mm thick Formica either side would give me the 19mm or I could use 1mm thick Formica and offset the t slot. I could always go 0.2mm or so eitherway and end up with slightly proud Formica or t-moulding which wouldn't really be a problem.

So you Formica pro's, what thickness's have you used and what thickness would you recommend?

[ChadTower]

They don't really sell by thickness, they sell by grade.  The stuff I was using yesterday was grade 10 I think, which is about 0.045" or 1.14mm thick.  That's general countertop grade and probably what you'd use for a cab.

[mountain]

Franco,
I used vertical grade for my second cab. After working with both, I would guess that it is about 1/2 the thickness of countertop grade. Probably around .020"

[ChadTower]

Is vertical grade cheaper?  I think I paid around $55/sheet for the grade 10 at Lowe's.

[Chadwick]

I think standard thickness is approx. 1/16" or 1.587mm

[Bender]

hi Franco

there are actually three grades of wilsonart laminate (not sure about formica)
I've done a lot of research on this

Standard .048" or 1.22mm
Vertical .028' or .71mm
cabinet drawer liner .20" or .50mm

I use 5/8 mdf with the standard laminate on both sides and with the glue and all it comes out to 3/4 perfect for t-molding
I use the thinner stuff for bending but that's a whole other story

I don't know if your planning to do your whole cocktail or not, but if you just need some samples to see the thickness or are just doing the cp's I have some left over pieces you could have (I have the standard and the vertical in matt black)

[Chadwick]

Here's what I found on the Formica site:

# Grade 10 General Purpose Grade (HGS, Nominal Thickness .048" (1.2mm))
The most widely specified grade; recommended for horizontal and vertical interior applications.

# Grade 12 Horizontal Postforming Grade (HGP, Nominal Thickness .039" (1.0mm))
Postformable to permit bending on suitable commercial postforming equipment. Use whenever forming is desired for decorative or functional purposes in interior applications. Optimum postforming temperature is 325°F (163°C). Note: When used with a polished finish, Grade 12 is recommended only for light duty horizontal applications.

# Grade 20 Vertical Postforming Grade (VGP, Nominal Thickness .028" (0.7mm))
Outside and inside radii to 3/8" (9.5mm). A forming grade designed for vertical or light duty horizontal interior applications requiring radiused edges. Thinner than Grade 12; excellent for postformed radii. Installed panel width not to exceed 24" (609.6mm) maximum.

[Franco B]

Thanks for all the info guys, thats a great help. 

Thanks for the offer Bender. I will be doing the whole of the outside of my cab though. I have found a place in the UK where I can get samples from so Ill get some from them. Now its just deciding what style to go for 

Thanks again 

[polaris]

[quote author=Franco B link=topic=82995.msg866850#msg866850 date=121792282. I have found a place in the UK where I can get samples from so Ill get some from them. Now its just deciding what style to go for 

[/quote]

let us know how the supplier works out, i started a uk wiki before and have been thinking of expanding it. i dont want to put arcade vendors in it , but was thinking specific suppliers of useful stuff could be included, its not like we can rely on b&q now is it.

[Franco B]

Sure, no problem. Im just emailing some vendors now, Ill let you know how I get on 

[Franco B]

Wow, this seems to be hard work!

I've been struggling to find anywhere that sells laminate to the public. Most sites I found will only sell to bona fide trade companies. However I did find the site http://www.topclasscarpentry.com which sell Duropal, Formica and Polyrey laminate.

They have a wide range of laminate but they only sell it in full size sheets ~4x1.5m.

Obviously this Is far too much for my personal needs so I rang them to see if they sell half or part sheets. Unfortunately they only sell full sheets so I asked if they knew of any suppliers that sell smaller sheets. I was told that they didn't know of any suppliers (to them or otherwise) that sell smaller sheets. The sales rep did say they knew a couple of suppliers that may possibly sell half sheets and she promised to contact them and ring me back. She did ring me but unfortunately they only sell full sheets too which leads me to believe I may struggle to find a smaller sheet.

If I cannot find any smaller sheets I may just have to buy the bullet and buy a full sheet and then try to sell on what I don't need. It isn't exactly cheep though. The sheets start at around £150+ (~$300) and its another £50 (~$100) to be delivered (crazy I know).

So even if I got the cheapest one I would be looking at £200. At that kind of price I may as well cover it in genuine 1.0mm thick Carbon Fibre like I originally planned as I can cover my cab in that for around £250.

Ill keep looking though and let you know how I get on.

[ChadTower]

Go to any local countertop shop and they'll be able to get it for you... probably most larger hardware stores, too.  Here you can get it at both Lowe's and Home Depot as well as lots of hardware stores.  Most places are special order but it doesn't take too long.

[mountain]

I'm surprised you haven't found a way to make it out of stainless! 

[Franco B]

Well I did think about that at one point but I don't really want a cocktail that looks like a BBQ 

[Bender]

Now that's an innovative idea a classic cocktail cab that doubles as a BBQ
just throw a kegerater in there and that all a man could ask for!   

[surface tension]

Hey Franco

Where abouts in the UK are you?

I purchased a sheet of 70's wood effect about 6 years ago from http://www.total-laminate.co.uk/details.html and it cost around £50. This would obviously have gone up... but not by that much I hope.

If you haven't got your samples yet, you can get them direct from Formica, which I have done a couple of times. An excellent service and you get to see some of their more weird and wonderful creations!

[Franco B]

Thanks for the link st, Ive sent them an email along with another company I have found. 

[polaris]

Go to any local countertop shop and they'll be able to get it for you... probably most larger hardware stores, too.  Here you can get it at both Lowe's and Home Depot as well as lots of hardware stores.  Most places are special order but it doesn't take too long.

you'd be gobsmacked at how bad B&Q is , and its pretty much our only choice, i see so many things you guys use that we just couldnt source in the uk.


franco
just an idea, but is it worth buying wood with laminate attatched , look up flight case manufacturers( the types you see in gigs) , they use laminate covered ply to make the cases, maybe a route to explore.

[Franco B]

Go to any local countertop shop and they'll be able to get it for you... probably most larger hardware stores, too.  Here you can get it at both Lowe's and Home Depot as well as lots of hardware stores.  Most places are special order but it doesn't take too long.

you'd be gobsmacked at how bad B&Q is , and its pretty much our only choice, i see so many things you guys use that we just couldn't source in the uk.


franco
just an idea, but is it worth buying wood with laminate attatched , look up flight case manufacturers( the types you see in gigs) , they use laminate covered ply to make the cases, maybe a route to explore.

Your right polaris, I nipped into our local huge B&Q Superstore yesterday on the way to work and asked them about laminate/Formica etc and they just looked at me gone out.

I had thought about using pre-laminated material but due to the design of my cab there would be quite a few screws visible. That's why I want to laminate it once the cab is complete so it hides all the screw heads etc. Thanks for the thought though.

Well my quest continues! If I don't get a reply from those companies in the next few hours Ill give them a ring at work this afternoon.

[thatitalian]

Go to any local countertop shop and they'll be able to get it for you... probably most larger hardware stores, too.  Here you can get it at both Lowe's and Home Depot as well as lots of hardware stores.  Most places are special order but it doesn't take too long.

you'd be gobsmacked at how bad B&Q is , and its pretty much our only choice, i see so many things you guys use that we just couldn't source in the uk.


franco
just an idea, but is it worth buying wood with laminate attatched , look up flight case manufacturers( the types you see in gigs) , they use laminate covered ply to make the cases, maybe a route to explore.

Your right polaris, I nipped into our local huge B&Q Superstore yesterday on the way to work and asked them about laminate/Formica etc and they just looked at me gone out.

I had thought about using pre-laminated material but due to the design of my cab there would be quite a few screws visible. That's why I want to laminate it once the cab is complete so it hides all the screw heads etc. Thanks for the thought though.

Well my quest continues! If I don't get a reply from those companies in the next few hours Ill give them a ring at work this afternoon.

Don't get me started on B&Q!

Franco, if there is going to be a large amount of surplus left you can always split the cost with me and I will go with the formica on my cab as:

1. It will save me time painting and with the UK weather drying it will be an ass!
2. I will get the same finish everytime!

Although you will have to guide me a bit lol, although my dad can fit kitchens well so he could help anyway!

Oh, also pm'ed you!

[Franco B]

Hey bud. Thanks for the thought. I think you will need most of a 4x1.5m sheet to do a full size cab, I figured out I will need nearly half of one to do the outside of mine.

I have a load of black vinyl so Ill use that to cover the inside as it will look nice but it doesn't need to be hard wearing.

I think Mountain will be the man to guide us, I have no experience with laminate what so ever. I picked up a couple of tips from Mountain in his [Fantasy cab] project thread but I will definitely need to ask him some more questions.

Here's a quick one Mike if you are there, does laminate route ok? Im guessing you would trim it as close as possible and then route the last few mm?

[polaris]

llandaff laminates

dunno if youve stumbled across these in your searches , got no idea if they can help but be worth a call

 

[Chadwick]

Franco,

This thread has some laminating information: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=82678.0

The basic process goes something like this...

- Cut a piece of laminate slightly larger than your surface to be laminated. I like to use a laminate scoring tool.
- Roll or brush contact adhesive onto both your laminate and the surface to be laminated
- let it dry until it is no longer tacky
- Apply laminate to your work using a laminate roller (or something similar) to get all the air bubbles out.  If you are laminating a big piece, I recommend placing 1/4" dowels spaced across the work surface to prevent the laminate from accidentally sticking in the wrong spot... you only get one chance at proper alignment.  Pull the dowels out one by one as your roll the laminate onto the surface.
- Let work set for awhile (30 mins.) then trim the laminate flush using a 2-flute, carbide-tipped, flush trim bit with ball bearing guide.

It is actually a pretty simple process.  The most difficult/nerve wracking part is the initial alignment and fear of having it stick where you don't want it to... use those dowels.

Laminate Scoring Tool:

Laminate Roller:

Contact Adhesive:

Use of 1/4" dowels:

Contact Adhesive rolled on and drying:

Laminating in action:

[ChadTower]

Good post.

One more piece of advice:  take care with the laminate cutter.  It's not sharp, but it does score effectively, and if you rush a cut you can easily jump away from your straightedge and into the piece you want to keep.  That will trash the whole piece for that particular purpose - now it has a big gash in it.  I say this because I did it myself a couple of days ago... thankfully it was just a small piece on the edge of the overall sheet.  It's easier than it appears to have the laminate cutter jump to someplace you don't want a gash.

[Franco B]

That's some great advice and information there guys, thanks. Ive appended the thread title in case anyone is looking for similar information.

Well, we have had a little success!! 

I emailed Llandaff Laminates (thanks polaris!) and they said that they sold Laminate but they don't deliver to my region but they did tell me to try www.blackheathproducts.co.uk

I sent them an email asking for a quote for some matte black laminate and gave them the size of sheet I was looking for and I got the following reply:

Good Afternoon

 
Thank you for your enquiry

The sheet size of the product you are enquiring about is 3080mm x 1250mm x 0.7mm

It is our Altofina Black 003 Matt Postforming Grade + PC


We currently have over 100 sheets in stock at a price of £27.20 per sheet


Hope this helps

 

Best Regards

Alan Homer

That's more like it! 

I asked for a delivery price but they must have over looked it. Ill shoot them another email and ask for a price. If its extortionate they are only a couple of hours from me so I could always go pick it up.

I image you can roll it into a large roll?

Ill also email Llandaff Laminates to find out how much there laminate is and where they deliver too so it can be added to the Wiki.


 

[Chadwick]

Yes, you can safely roll it up.

[polaris]

excellent, glad it led to a result for you , cant fault those cardiff boyos 

and finally something else to put in the wiki. i think we should just link to this thread, lots of good info on the subject.

 

[Franco B]

FYI, I got an email back and my loaction isnt in there delivery area  However, they said they can send by a 3rd party courier for £25. As its a 3rd party courier I imagine that delivery charge would apply to everywhere in the UK outside of there delivery area.

They have there own delivery couriers and I imagine delivery would be cheaper within there delivery area. The area that they cover is:


Bedfordshire    
Berkshire    
Bristol / North Somerset    
Buckinghamshire    
Cambridgeshire    
Cheshire    
Derbyshire (central & south)    
Derbyshire (north)    
Gloucestershire    
Greater Manchester    
Hampshire (south)    
Herefordshire    
Hertfordshire    
Lancashire    
Leicestershire    
Merseyside    
North Wales    
Northamptonshire    
Nottinghamshire (north)    
Nottinghamshire (central & south)    
Oxfordshire    
Shropshire    
South Wales    
South Yorkshire    
Staffordshire    
Warwickshire (Coventry, Nuneaton)    
Warwickshire (south)    
West Midlands    
Worcestershire

It would cost me nearly £25 in petrol to go pick it so Ill get it delivered. That means it will be about £50 all in for enough laminate to cover the inside and outside of my cocktail plus a little extra for a bartop All in all I think thats a great price 

[thatitalian]

Can't believe that London isn't on there!!!

[Franco B]

I can't believe that my area isnt in their delivery zone considering they deliver all around me. Its good that they can send it by third courier though so Im guessing that the same £25 would apply to you (London) too.

They probably don't deliver to London as I imagine there is a large distribution center down there that serves London and the surrounding area. It may be worth finding the distribution center near you if you want cheaper delivery.

[ChadTower]

These rolls are within reason for shipping... and they're not heavy relative to their size.  Are there no websites that sell laminate in the UK?

[Franco B]

I'm not sure I understand Chad.

This is pretty much what the whole thread is about, trying to find suppliers/websites that sell laminate in the UK.

Many suppliers I have found will only deal to trade and the smaller suppliers that do sell to the public charge extortionate prices (www.topclasscarpentry.com).

www.blackheathproducts.co.uk say they are trade only but they appear willing to sell single sheets. You do, however, have to open an account with them but its no biggie.

[ChadTower]

Oh okay... the courier thing threw me off.  We don't have that concept for "ordered" things around here unless it's local enough that it can be delivered in a couple of hours and thus almost never applies to websites.

[thatitalian]

There is also these guys:

http://www.brentplastics.co.uk/

I have sent them an email, hopefully they will get back to me today!

[javeryh]

Anyone know the thickness of laminate I would need to be able to wrap a curved panel?  It's about an 8" radius.  The laminate I've seen at Home Depot is way too rigid to bend...

[thatitalian]

I am still trying to get hold of a supplier. I found formica but I have read it is very difficult to work with. Is there another type of laminate available in the UK?

[Franco B]

Try http://www.plasman.co.uk/ buddy. I sent them an email for a quote lat week but they didnt reply, It may be worth give them a call.

I havent used formica etc but quite a few people here have used it so you shouldnt have any trouble. What parts of your cab are you going to laminate? Your getting full size side art aren't you?

[thatitalian]

Yeah, full sized art and laminate inside and out.

The paint is probably easier to go with but it just takes way too long and could end up looking pap!!

I prefer the laminate option though.