[NEW VIDEO ADDED!] AtomicFe running HyperSpin "Inspired" layouts...

[youki]

Hi,

This a short video that shows few feature of the "coming soon" Atomic 0.20 . 


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/v/pplMw_ozGkE&hl=en[/youtube]

New Video :
[youtube]http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=xbVO2MYltiY[/youtube]


The Artwork have been taken from few hyperspin layouts.

Hyperspin guys , don't worry, this version is not released yet, it is just a technical test for me.

I have just enhanced Atomic Engine to manage rotation and support different layout by game.

And for whom interrested , it is still only DirectDraw,no Direct 3d and  It does NOT require 3d accelerated card  , all is done in "software".

I know, ... there is no wheel ...    not yet... 

Youki

[KDOG]

Instead of a side wheel you could have the artwork fade out a little and have the wheel like a rolodex or apple's time machine. Don't know if that possible but just suggesting.

[Cakemeister]

All done in software? Impressive!

How beefy a machine do you need to run that layout?

Instead of a side wheel you could have the artwork fade out a little and have the wheel like a rolodex or apple's time machine. Don't know if that possible but just suggesting.

This could be done by varying the "X" angle. In OpenGL there are three axes, the X is the horizontal , the Y is the vertical and the Z comes out of the screen. The X angle is the angle the item is rotated around the X axis, and so on. Ultrastyle and Hyperspin use a Z axis rotation. I envision your idea looking something like the Price is Right showcase showdown wheel. (Sorry Youki, American culture). I dunno how that would work in DirectDraw.

The late, great Dragon King showed off a neat capability where there was a Y axis rotation wheel where each wheel entry was rounded like an arc instead of flat, so the wheel ended up being a circle instead of a n-gon.

[Teknique]

looks great Youki!  When are you anticipating releasing .20?

Tek

[headkaze]

Anything is possible in software but the problem is writing the code to do it fast. I think you've done a great job there though Youki as far as pushing the limits of DirectDraw. Where I see limitations is like what Cake was touching on rotation on X and Y axis as well as Z axis, and especially combining the 3 types. If a Hyperspin layout does it will you ignore the two other axis? I think you could do it, but can you do it fast? Also how is the performance when you rotate the screen for vertical setups and add a rotating wheel all done in software? That's alot of pixels to push with just the CPU. I think there will still be people running old machines for Mame, but technology will get cheaper. I think Aaron let slip that Mame was heading towards 3d accellation, but what I think he meant was unloading operations onto the GPU and using Pixel Shaders.

[youki]

looks great Youki!  When are you anticipating releasing .20?

Tek

As soon as possible.  Beta testers have already some version. But i have still lot of work to do , polishing and providing all documentations. 
95% of the news on Atomic 0.20 have been done on the backend . It has been totally rewritten. 

All done in software? Impressive!

It is not so impressive, you know, tons of guys were able to do the same kind of thing at the time of Commodore 64, Atari St and Amiga.   the commodore 64 was a 1Mhz machine...
Of course, the amount of pixel to rotate was not the same, but if you calculate a rough "stupid" ratio :
 C64 :  8000 bytes (size of video memory)  / 0.001 Ghz = 8000000 bytes/ghz
 PC 2GHZ in 640x480/16bit pixel : 640x480*2 bytes/ 2ghz = 307200   bytes/ghz

=>80000000 / 307200 = 26   => it is like if the commodore 64 is 26 times faster than my PC!  ... so i can do better!

I'm not sure if my calculation means something in fact...  but  just that i should be able to do faster! 

I simply use the good old "forgotten" techniques in Atomic.

How beefy a machine do you need to run that layout?

the video as been taken on a P4 2ghz.  for The layout you see on the video , i think a P3 around 1ghz or may be less should be enough. i didn't test on slower machine yet.

Of course performance depends on how much rotating object you have, alpha blending etc... 

And of course it depends how smart you are when you design the layout. you can do lot of thing different way , so you can have 2 identical layouts, but one could be 10 time faster then the other.

I envision your idea looking something like the Price is Right showcase showdown wheel. (Sorry Youki, American culture).

I think i see what you mean , You are talking about a TV Show where you have to find the price of items?  There is a wheel in the part of this show , i don't remember exectly why, but i can see it.   Tv show are sold all around the world, so we have the same (with a french name...  I think it was "le juste prix".).

but i think i can manage already do this kind of wheel with Atomic.

Anything is possible in software but the problem is writing the code to do it fast.

Yes, exactly.  I could do real 3d also. but i don't think i will do.  Atomic is a 2d front end . Displaying a rotating 3d cabinet model is nice but i don't think it worth the effort. You could do the same thing making a video of a rotating 3d cabinet and displaying it in Atomic.
Anyway , if one day i decide to do 3d for Atomic, i will switch to a new engine in Direct3d....

[Neilyboy]

very slick man! I can not wait to see this released and what is to come. keep up the good work youki!

Neil

[Dazz]

I'm glad to see that HyperSpin is having a big affect within the community even before a public release...  Looks like it is gaining enough momentum that it is starting to scare other FE authors into trying to imitate HyperSpin'esq looks. 

BTW - here is how it should really look and run.  This would be HS running on my cabinet.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib2V_jw7JZY&NR=1[/youtube]

As stated before....  Jack of all trades, master of none.

[Cakemeister]

... it is starting to scare other FE authors into trying to imitate HyperSpin'esq looks. 

As stated before....  Jack of all trades, master of none.

ROFL!

[youki]

Hi Dazz,

I'm not impressed at all by Hyperspin fe (as , i think, most of coder here) .   I'm really impressed by all the very impressive graphic work that is done.

I think lot of enthusiasts could be a little bit dispointed by Hyperspin after a while.  I think Hyperspin will have the problem all FE dev had :   All  Users  are different , and expect different things , and want always more.   We, i think i speak for all FE Dev, are trying to anwser the best we can to all user request and for most of us , since more than 4 years now.   So i think , hyperspin will have problem of all young FE have.

My main "inspiration" for Atomic since the beginning was the ultracade front end, it is why i developped an advanced graphical engine.  

But that's true, i really like the look of some layout i saw , it is very close to the original ultracade style.  But i'm not scared at all.  That's motivating to have a new competitor!  

But the opposite could be true , Hyperspin author could be scared of seeing other free FE doing the same thing.  Mainly if there is somehow  "commercial" intention behind.  If no, there is no reasons.
And seeing the reaction you had guys after seing Kameleon using Hyperspin layout , you seemed scared , it let me perplex.

Don't get me wrong, i really like Hyperspin! .    But i have more a "wait and see" attitude.

I just  think ,  you underestimate certains things...

Keep up the good work!  

[Dazz]

... it is starting to scare other FE authors into trying to imitate HyperSpin'esq looks. 

As stated before....  Jack of all trades, master of none.

ROFL!

Can't beat 'em?  Join 'em...  right?

Youki - I'm just playing around.  I think what you guys do is great.  I respect everyone that has the knowledge and has released a product that benefits the community.  I think that every FE creator started creating their own "perfect" FE since what they wanted was not available, but they eventually end up releasing to the public.  Your vision of an FE might be completely different than a vision from someone else.  I am sure that every FE designer out there feels the same way.  If an FE doesn't have the features you want/need then create one yourself... right?

I do think HS is pushing FE development into a new direction though, more animated and eye appealing than what we have seen in the past.  I for one welcome our new animated overlords!

BTW - I see no problem with this.  However, I am worried that people are going to simply leech themes and artwork without contributing to the projects.  Themeing and artwork is a major part of these types of front ends and we all are going to need as much help as possible to get the artwork that is needed.  While we have some great artwork resources, it still takes quite a bit of time to correct/modify existing artwork to fit correctly.  Some artwork is non existing and must be created by hand or traced from really bad sources... while there is some good artwork that we can simply get from layers and paths from existing .ai/.psd files.   

[retrometro]

I'm glad to see that HyperSpin is having a big affect within the community even before a public release...  Looks like it is gaining enough momentum that it is starting to scare other FE authors into trying to imitate HyperSpin'esq looks. 

All I know is that I'm impressed by it and would gladly show it off on my cab to visitors.  Since donating money for MALA was a no brainer, donating or paying for HyperSpin would be even more of a no brainer... (is that possible?)

One of the problems that is being addressed by loadman was the frequency of updates / bug fixes.  A great initial release is awesome but staying around and taking care of users in forums like this and going the extra mile to try and reproduce a problem like loadman is what creates fans...

But as another poster wrote, the layouts are definitely why most people are attracted to hyperspin.

[nipsmg]

Here's my taken on the whole thing:

I think the animated graphical style of Hyperspin FE is going to set the bar for the appearance of frontends, to a point where the current static skins are not going to be enough to please the next generation of adopters.

However, while I love Hyperspin graphically, it looks like the frontend only shines for those games for which a theme has been created.  this may cause an adoption problem in the long run.

This is awesome for those bartop machines meant only to play a small subset of games.. but for the full gamut of arcade/console games, it just might not be enough.  This is all speculation however, asI've only used an early beta of Hyperspin while I was briefly a beta tester in the beginning, so much may have changed.


Youki: GOOD JOB adding that kind of ability to AtomicFE.  I love watching your FE progress, it's really starting to shine.

[Dazz]

However, while I love Hyperspin graphically, it looks like the frontend only shines for those games for which a theme has been created.  this may cause an adoption problem in the long run.

This is awesome for those bartop machines meant only to play a small subset of games.. but for the full gamut of arcade/console games, it just might not be enough.  This is all speculation however, asI've only used an early beta of Hyperspin while I was briefly a beta tester in the beginning, so much may have changed.

I thought the same way when testing first started, but being an active tester and seeing HS get from where it was then to where it is now is like night and day.  There have been many strides and always with a forward motion.  Even the default themes for consoles look just as good as games with themes.  Of course games that have themes will stand out, but a full wheel is perfectly capable.  While I think we need to allow text on the wheel until complete sets of wheel images are done, but for systems like NES, Neo Geo and a couple others where we have full sets of wheel artwork on the wheel they look and run great.

I have nothing invested in the project, but I do know that it has the capability to become a great front end.

[youki]

I do know that it has the capability to become a great front end.

I have no doubt about that. 

[brian_hoffman]

Well AtomicFE is a very good Fe.  I tried it a while back while I was testing alot of FE's . At mameworld there is a linkbar to alot of FE's... Not sure how often that is updated anymore... I decided to use gameex as my fe of choice as it is so feature rich.  But in an arcade cab features = learning curve...  All you really need it to do is launch games.. I agree also that diffrent users expect diffrent things especially becuase most FEs do cater to the many diverse needs of its user groups..  But then how often do you see these in real practice?  Its mostly yours /arcadeos/ mamewah /maxius pc/ that I see videos of.  I think there come a point taht you just got to say that "insert feature here" isnt in the scope of this FE and move on..  Other wise it gets cumbersome to navigate and control...  While it may seem easy for me to navigate gameex on my cab..  Im always helping my friends out when they get in front of it.. This is something Im lloking to avoid in my next projects. When doing pergame themes I agree it is very nice...  And diffrent from all the text driven Fe's.. Yes they can give you access to all your library instantly as soon as you inserft a rom filter like *.zip
But in the end its the same as what everyone else is doing... As Im getting older I realize that having all the games is nice but its just too much.. I dont play any game longer than 5 minutes because then Im off to the next one.

Any ways I dont mean to ramble on... Im happy to see other authors getting inspiration on adding these capabilitys. Even Cakemeister.  I think it would have been alot diffrent if he were to have made his own theme instead of ripping HS themes.. So early.. I see your videos are HS themes also.. Adding that kind of functionality is great. Taking the themes verbatum is something Im not going to go into again. I do however look forward to your release and hope to see some original themes for inspiration.

Good luck

[retrometro]

I think it would have been alot diffrent if he were to have made his own theme instead of ripping HS themes.. So early.. I see your videos are HS themes also.. Adding that kind of functionality is great. Taking the themes verbatum is something Im not going to go into again. I do however look forward to your release and hope to see some original themes for inspiration.

I don't think using themes from other FE's is so bad.  Many MALA users including myself have converted themes from mamewah since there are so many more mamewah themes then mala.  But mala is just so much easier IMO to use and configure.

If HS turns out to be more than just the themes it can handle, I think people will notice that.

[brian_hoffman]

I'm not going to de-rail Youki's thread but I will respond. I dont think anyone anybody thought for even a second the art wouldnt get reused in other places. There is nothing wrong with someone saying "hey that logo is great im going to use it when I make my theme" or "hey I like that mario png Im going to use it in this theme over here..." Or hey Im going to take all the art and mix and match to make 1000 diffrent themes"  It was just shocking to see the Whole theme ripped.. from the art to the backround to the animations.. Verbatim... Before it was even realeased.. So while cake and youki have shared the art (speculation) they are just trying to reproduce a existing product instead of creating some original themes.. While The concept for HS is take from inspiration from Ultracade we never took any of its artwork.. We may have took inspiration from its interface but we realize your product has got to be your own.  Now that the shock has worn off I'm excited to see dev's looking into adding support for this type of UI.. There is clearly a demand for it.  But Id like to see some original content. I mean its going to get old seeing the same themes across 5 diffrent Fe's all with diffrent quirks as its not supported 100% acccuratly.  Just like seeing text based Fe's is getting old.. That's why there is such a buzz around HS and Ultracade type Fe's. While there are converter to convert themes to work from one FE to the other thats been left for the user to do.. Not the author distributing someone elses stuff.

In a cab all I really need it to do is launch games.. If I can do that I'm happy... In my HTPC I use gameex as it does everything and more.

So in closing Id like to congratulate Youki and his accomplishment and look forward to seeing some original content.

[youki]

Just notice, i didn't re-used hyperskin layout  , i just took some Logo and Images and assembled differently.

And as i said in my first post , it is just a technical demo.

Not the author distributing someone elses stuff.

Sorry, but it is typically what hyperspin will do.  you reworked and assembled others Artwork to make your skins.  Even if you have handdrawn some of them , it is copy of other intellectual creation.

For instance, i have never provided a default layout with my distribution that used artworks that don't have been done specially for Atomic.    OF course Atomic have layout that use this kind of artwork, but they are user contribution not part of the standard distribution.

I'm not an expert in that domain, but i think providing all your skin using that copyrighted artworks , it is exactly like you were providing the roms itself or hacked roms.  It makes no difference.

Anyway, i don't plan to distribute something from hyperspin with my distribution.
May be a layout convertor as external tool.

[BORIStheBLADE]

Good work youki keep it coming!

[headkaze]

This could be done by varying the "X" angle. In OpenGL there are three axes, the X is the horizontal , the Y is the vertical and the Z comes out of the screen. The X angle is the angle the item is rotated around the X axis, and so on. Ultrastyle and Hyperspin use a Z axis rotation. I envision your idea looking something like the Price is Right showcase showdown wheel. (Sorry Youki, American culture). I dunno how that would work in DirectDraw.

The late, great Dragon King showed off a neat capability where there was a Y axis rotation wheel where each wheel entry was rounded like an arc instead of flat, so the wheel ended up being a circle instead of a n-gon.

Do you mean like this 3D Arcade wheel?

[Cakemeister]

Exactly, that's what I call an "X-axis" wheel.

[Ummon]

Exactly, that's what I call an "X-axis" wheel.

Might be even cooler if you could view it off-sides.


And did anyone notice in the Hyperspin video the Asteriods 'music' is wrong?

[Lilwolf]

btw, wasn't Hyperspin inspired from ultracades frontend?  It looks a lot like it (but with a wheel instead of horizontal spinner thing). 

Anyway, looks cool!  All these frontends almost made me startup on some ideas I had years ago... but resisting until I can if the these new frontends do what I want

[Xiaou2]

 Personally,  I dont like the way the artwork/animations cover up the game list.

 Its like trying to look at a dinner menu,  and all the sudden a thousand cheeseburgers
pop up in front of you.   You push them away,  only to have french fries cover the
menu up again.   

 I like the themes and animations... but I think they should be limited so
that they appear behind the Game menu listing.  There also should probably
be a fade to grey as soon as you start to move the wheel... and the menu
will no launch a game animation/background change until its left on the
selected game for at least 3 to 4 seconds.   This would help keep the cycling from
game to game be a lot less "epileptic". 

[youki]

I don't know for hyperspin, but for Atomic you can let the list above the animation if you want.

The list is a graphic object as all other, you can place it on the layout  on the layer you want.

Personnaly in Hyperspin what i don't like too much is the graphics used in wheel. I would prefer something more normalized , like colored round rectancle with a nice font inside.  More like Ultracade in fact.

[billpa]

It all depends what artwork you use and what layer you use it in to determine whether you see the wheel in HS. Its really up to the theme designer. I personally like a lot of overlapping layers. It gives it more dimension. But thats just me. My point is, you can make it however you want. I believe the NES set that we are finishing up has the pill shapped wheel images like you are referring to youki.

[Lilwolf]

I personally love the look.  Sure it has a lot going on, but when your moving around, it seems to hide them properly.  Also nice that enough people are interested in it, there should be a lot of themes written for it.... of course, you might be storing a meg+ theme to run a game whos rom is about 5k

Being able to display cool themes means nothing if you don't have artistic friends / people to make those skins/themes.  Animame could do a ton of this stuff years ago... I'm just artistically challenged

[Havok]

Hyperspin is nice, for a very small collection of games. However, when you get into a real list - waaay too busy. How are you handling, say 2,500 games? After you pull out all the clones and mahjong stuff, that's what a good "All Mame Games" list is going to have...

I think you guys are getting a little sidetracked with Youkis demo - it's a proof of concept showing that the graphic abilities of Atomic are still up to par with current front ends.

I'm glad HS is out there, though, keep up the good work!

[billpa]

How are you handling, say 2,500 games?

There are some features that will be implemented to help with navigation when it comes to large game lists (ie by alpha character). I am unsure if they will be available in the first release as it is not the highest priority right now. But something will be available pretty soon. However, there is already a jump feature that allows you to skip a certain number of games in a list (you can determine the number through the Settings XML). So for example, the up and down movements on the joystick move through the list, one game at a time. If you were to go left or right on the joystick, it would jump 25 games or 50 games or whatever you set it to. Hopefully BBB can implement the same style for alpha characters.

[youki]

I'm curious to know how much memory Hyperspin will consume with a wheel containing 2500 games or more.

I think BBB implemented a cache system that load graphics on need as i did in Atomic for graphic list. But it means that the wheels scrolling will  slowdown when he load  image that are not in cache.  If he didn't implemented a cache, you will have to have a graphics card with lot of memory on board.  I'm not sure Flash can store images in system memory.

Somebody tried the wheel with thousands of games?

[Ian]

Hyperspin is nice, for a very small collection of games. However, when you get into a real list - waaay too busy. How are you handling, say 2,500 games? After you pull out all the clones and mahjong stuff, that's what a good "All Mame Games" list is going to have...

I think you guys are getting a little sidetracked with Youkis demo - it's a proof of concept showing that the graphic abilities of Atomic are still up to par with current front ends.

I'm glad HS is out there, though, keep up the good work!

Yeah, I have 2500+ games on my cab, but I only play like maybe 100 of them... how many of the 2500 do you play? I actually am redoing my whole approach with hyperspin. Quality over Quantity. I think it would be better for a cab that isn't overwhelming for people new to your arcade.

[youki]

In fact it is what i thougth when i made first version of Atomic.  For me , user would use a set of maximum 50 games in a Front End.  Atomic first version didn't have text list, only marquee list.

but i have quickly realised that it is not what Front End users wanted. The great majority own complete collection of thousand games and want see them in their front end in their cab.

And not only arcade games ,few year ago  i naively believed that in a mame cab we put only mame ...  but not, they want all consoles and all games!.

Personnally, i have only mame in my cab with not a complete set but a big set , i pick up random game time to time to discover new games.

[Dazz]

I'm curious to know how much memory Hyperspin will consume with a wheel containing 2500 games or more.

I think BBB implemented a cache system that load graphics on need as i did in Atomic for graphic list. But it means that the wheels scrolling will  slowdown when he load  image that are not in cache.  If he didn't implemented a cache, you will have to have a graphics card with lot of memory on board.  I'm not sure Flash can store images in system memory.

Somebody tried the wheel with thousands of games?

It doesn't use much memory at all... HyperSpin only loads 20 wheel images at a time and themes are loaded on the fly.  I have HS with all 3000+ MAME games (not all have a wheel image), complete USA N64 and USA NES games and have not seen any slow down.  The only slowdown that I have seen is that some of the new transitions are a bit more intense.

[youki]

Just curious, what the specification of the machine you are using for your hyperspin config?

[Dazz]

I am running a 2.8ghz AMD X2 5800+, 2gb DDR2, nV 7800gtx.  I have tested HS on a 1.2 ghz Athlon XP, 1gb PC2700, on board video.

[divemaster127]

Any eta would atomicfe .20 will be out
thanks
dm

[DaveMMR]

Hyperspin is nice, for a very small collection of games. However, when you get into a real list - waaay too busy. How are you handling, say 2,500 games? After you pull out all the clones and mahjong stuff, that's what a good "All Mame Games" list is going to have...

I think you guys are getting a little sidetracked with Youkis demo - it's a proof of concept showing that the graphic abilities of Atomic are still up to par with current front ends.

I'm glad HS is out there, though, keep up the good work!

Yeah, I have 2500+ games on my cab, but I only play like maybe 100 of them... how many of the 2500 do you play? I actually am redoing my whole approach with hyperspin. Quality over Quantity. I think it would be better for a cab that isn't overwhelming for people new to your arcade.

That's pretty much the reason I'm trying out HS too (and looking forward to the new atomic FE).   I have a full collection of ROMs but even with a simple, text list, having those all available outside of testing is way too overwhelming.  Even after cutting it down to 200, I feel like I can safely take half of them off the list.  A carefully selected list of games, with gratuitous zippy graphical introductions for each one, seems more inviting to the casual users of my cab.

I still love Mala but I am looking at all this new eye-candy intensive FE development with interest.  Can't wait to see what you guys all come up with next.  Good jobs all around. 

[youki]

I plan to release Atomic 0.20 in September.

[youki]

I have added a new video showing more layout in the first post of this topic.

 

[brian_hoffman]

Things I noticed to be diffrent:
The aspect ratio is off on most images... Example the moon patrol theme of mine is messed up... The logo should stretch across the whole backround. The moon rover is not the right size. Unless thats the look your after...

The Dr. Mario theme all the pills are the same... In HS it plays the SWF and each pill is a diffrent color.
This means your SWF support is lacking. 

Other than that Im glad your still working on this as it shows what a true fan you are. Even tho you said "Don't believe the hype" in a diffrent post.  Not that there is any sour grapes.

Great work on the demo it does look to perform very fast.
I also notice the swirl effect.. Thats pretty cool.  You must be very talented coder to do this all in software.
What are you programing in?

[youki]

Thanks.

I don't try to do exact same layouts , i just used same artworks (therefore i had to rework for Atomic).  I could do exactly the same than hyperspin with same ratio ect..ect... technically Atomic is prefectly able to do that (except the wheel for now), but it is not my goal. I just take "inspiration" , i will have also some other layout that are not yet in Hyperspin.

In addition , my layouts are not completed yet , i made all the set of layout you see in the video in about 8 hours... so i didn't took time to really "polish"...

it shows what a true fan you are

Yes, i really love all the work Hyperspin Artists did!
A big difference between Atomic and Hyperspin , is that Atomic works on all hardware and require lot of less powerfull machine to run that kind of skin.
So it could be a good alternative for whom can not run Hyperspin and don't have money to buy a new hardware.

Even tho you said "Don't believe the hype" in a diffrent post.  Not that there is any sour grapes.

In fact i say that, because i understand "Hype" as "very exaggerated publicity" , but may be it has another meaning?   It is why i say "Don't Believe the Hype" , because Hyperspin has nothing so exceptionnal. (except the work done by the "skinner guys").

What are you programing in?

Atomic's Engine is in Visual C++ using DirectDraw 7. 

[divemaster127]

Well I for one am waiting to put a front end back on my computer until your .20 is ready im sure it will be awesome
dm

[headkaze]

I'm sure Youki doesn't intend on turning Atomic into a HyperSpin clone, but I must say I'm impressed with how far you've pushed DirectDraw in terms of rotation and alpha channels. I still think it will be a hard job to replicate some of the Flash stuff like pixel blurring which is used to great effect in HS.

As for .swf support I have that working quite well in my own FE but it can be quite CPU intensive as you have to grab frames from the Flash ocx and render them. It might even be impossible to do with CS3 version .swf's but I personally haven't tried that. That might take the framerate out of the low-end spec support Atomic is aiming for.

That being said a job well done Youki although I think BadBoyBill probably deserves more recognition than you give him when you say HS is only impressive because of the artwork. There is more to it than that IMHO even if Flash does take much of the hard work out of writing an animation system. But really who cares what is "under the hood" other than other programmers?

I'm also curious Youki what version of Visual C++ is Atomic written in?

[youki]

BadBoyBill did a really great work. And he spent surely lot of time on it.
I'm just on  a purely technical plan not impressed by HyperSpin .

BadBoyBill deserves lot of recognition for his job , of course.

I'm sure Youki doesn't intend on turning Atomic into a HyperSpin clone

Not my goal at all.

I'm impressed with how far you've pushed DirectDraw in terms of rotation and alpha channels.

Thanks. but in fact i use directdraw to choose the graphic mode/resolution and then most of my routine access directly to his buffers bypassing APIs.  I don't really use the DirectDraw API. (sometimes i use BLT , but not in all case).

As for .swf support I have that working quite well in my own FE but it can be quite CPU intensive as you have to grab frames from the Flash ocx and render them. It might even be impossible to do with CS3 version .swf's but I personally haven't tried that. That might take the framerate out of the low-end spec support Atomic is aiming for.

Yes, if you use third party "component" like the flash ocx , you will be quickly limited somewhere.

I'm also curious Youki what version of Visual C++ is Atomic written in?

Visual C++ 6    , recently i moved it to 7 . (VC++ 2003)

[headkaze]

Thanks. but in fact i use directdraw to choose the graphic mode/resolution and then most of my routine access directly to his buffers bypassing APIs.  I don't really use the DirectDraw API. (sometimes i use BLT , but not in all case).

There are no DD API's for rotation so of course you are locking surfaces and manipulating the bits manually. I did the same thing in the GameEx rotation routines although I used GDI and GetDIBits/SetDIBits since a DD surface and a GDI DC are easily interchangeable.

Yes, if you use third party "component" like the flash ocx , you will be quickly limited somewhere.

I'm curious if Flash CS3 has an ocx for their new player and if it will improve the performance I'm getting.

Visual C++ 6    , recently i moved it to 7 . (VC++ 2003)

I still use VC6 for writing dll's as they compile with no dependancies. I don't like how VC7/8 require end-user installed runtimes when all I'm writing is a small dll. But people think I'm crazy because I still use VC6.

[youki]

still use VC6 for writing dll's as they compile with no dependancies. I don't like how VC7/8 require end-user installed runtimes when all I'm writing is a small dll. But people think I'm crazy because I still use VC6.

What runtime are you talking about?  I have done few dll in VC 7 , i use , and don't need runtime.

I also like VC 6 , i was very happy with it.  But i had to do a work for a guy  on VC7  , so to avoid to have both installed i migrated Atomic  to 7. (just recompile in fact , i had nothing special to do ! )

I'm curious if Flash CS3 has an ocx for their new player and if it will improve the performance I'm getting.

I think the future could be Microsoft SilverLight.  I started to work on it (for my job) , that's quite good. Still young of course , but very very promising....

[headkaze]

What runtime are you talking about?  I have done few dll in VC 7 , i use , and don't need runtime.

You might be right the only runtimes I found are for 2005 and 2008. Maybe I should move from VS6 to VS2003 then?

Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Redistributable Package (x86)
Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 SP1 Redistributable Package (x86)
Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 Redistributable Package (x86)

I also like VC 6 , i was very happy with it.  But i had to do a work for a guy  on VC7  , so to avoid to have both installed i migrated Atomic  to 7. (just recompile in fact , i had nothing special to do ! )

Yes I think I will have to move all my C++ projects to VC 2003/2005 eventually. If 2003 doesn't need runtimes I think that might be a good one to migrate to but I already have VS6 and 2005 installed on my dev PC.

I think the future could be Microsoft SilverLight.  I started to work on it (for my job) , that's quite good. Still young of course , but very very promising....

Isn't SilverLight a web only API? I think Windows Presentation Foundation could also be a future avenue - alot of complex graphic tasks can be done easily in XAML. Also WPF is 3d accellerated API. I think maybe FE's of the future will be written in WPF, but it is still a long way away before people will be using Vista for cabs.

[youki]

You might be right the only runtimes I found are for 2005 and 2008. Maybe I should move from VS6 to VS2003 then?

Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Redistributable Package (x86)
Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 SP1 Redistributable Package (x86)
Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 Redistributable Package (x86)

Are you sure these library are not only needed for Managed C++?  I have briefly read the page they are talking about installation in Assembly Cache.   I think if you are not in managed mode you don't need them.  You can also , i think , use static version of these library and link it to your project.

Isn't SilverLight a web only API? I think Windows Presentation Foundation could also be a future avenue - alot of complex graphic tasks can be done easily in XAML.

SilverLight uses WPF and XAML .  For now i just used Silverlight for simple web prototype, so i'm not an expert , but i think it is not necessary "only" web.  As it stands now , it clear it will compete with Flash ,   Try Microsoft Expression Blend 2.5 , there are similarities with flash...

[MAME TIME]

Youki has been a stand up guy from the start, great work. Looks like im going to have to update my cab yet again. I'm sure the vert layouts will be on the backburner untill further notice? any plans?

[youki]

These layout can be used as is vertically too , but of course will not have the correct Aspect/Ratio.

But layout are also easly modifiable to vertical using AtomicLayout Editor.

If i can find time , I will do also a set of vertical ones. But surely after the release.

[headkaze]

Are you sure these library are not only needed for Managed C++?  I have briefly read the page they are talking about installation in Assembly Cache.   I think if you are not in managed mode you don't need them.  You can also , i think , use static version of these library and link it to your project.

I think you might be okay with VS 2003, but I remember upgrading a non-managed C++ dll to 2005 and it stopped working on other user's PC's. I believe it was because they needed the runtimes installed. So yeah I don't mean managed C++.

You might be right about being able to staticly link them though, although I haven't tried it. That would inflate the size of the exe quite a bit I'd imagine though.