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Author Topic: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)  (Read 8823 times)

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TalkingBull

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SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« on: July 24, 2008, 05:04:43 am »
When I was a kid, I went to the local arcade (We had 'em back then) and they had one of those Hologram Time Traveler machines.  Granted, the game wasn't the best in the world but the technology was pretty cool for back then.  I was wondering if anyone had plans or parts to build one of these?  I know it was a curved mirror and a regular CRT and I think it would be really cool to build one of these.  I would also be interested to run standard MAME games on it just to see how it looked.  If anyone has done this or knows how to do this, lemme know!

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2008, 07:35:52 am »
Somebody picked one up and played with it a few years ago.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=47315.0

Looks like he snipped out the pics though.

Searching on Holosseum may yield some more hits.
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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2008, 10:59:22 am »
Not too long ago someone put a MAME converted cab on eBay. I believe the auction had pictures of PacMan running on the cabinet. Methinks there should be a post around here mentioning it.

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2008, 11:08:04 am »
I remember when it came out and was hoping they would have made a virtua fighter that way but they never did.

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2008, 09:53:54 am »
This is what happens when a Holloseum meets a 48 in 1.

I bet they'd have some ugly babies...

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2008, 07:28:52 pm »
I thought, and still think, the Time Traveler was an awkward, bulky cab.
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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2008, 09:45:11 am »
I coudn't handle the display.  Made you sick looking at it too long.

I thought Dyer would have taken the hint when the Halcyon went bye byes but his efforts landed two of his creations at the Smithsonian.  Dragon's Lair and Time Traveller.

Last time I saw a Time Traveller by Sega, was at a Ops Warehouse in Las Vegas.  Some guy paid $1000 for it but he lost his job so he could not close on it.  The going price was $700.  Looking back I was glad I passed on it. 

I would have had to starve myself for a week before I could play it.   :laugh2:
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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2008, 08:22:54 pm »
Edited:

OMG, have you been looking in my windows lately?

My Time Traveler DVD arrived yesterday, see project announcements for more info in the future.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2008, 11:42:55 pm by pinballwizard79 »
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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2008, 05:29:43 pm »

The issue with building one of these is the unique parabolic mirror.  You'd have to find some way of reproducing something very much like that - you'll never find an original.  They are nearly extinct. 

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2008, 10:53:41 pm »
Oh I already thought of that my friend.

My goal is to make a machine that replicates the holographic effect, not an exact duplicate, that would as you stated take parts I cant find.

I plan on taking an empty cabinet, paint the outside white & the inside black. Then mount a monitor laying on its back below the control panel & mount new shiny plexi sheet above it at the correct angle. All the while this happens I have to make sure its deep enough in the cabinet to drown out light to pull off the illusion I am after.

For example, watch this entire video to see it done on a small & very large scale:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-cool-hologram-illusion!/

So I think this is possible, hopefully.

It wont hurt my feelings if someone does this first, heh save me the R&D time please  ;D

Also, if anyone here thinks there is a better way I am open to ideas too.





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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2008, 08:22:10 am »

You don't need someone else to do the trial and error for that method... it's been done in games quite a few times, usually to create an overlay into the game rather than a hologram type effect.  Asteroids Deluxe is a good example.

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2008, 12:39:46 pm »
What chad said.  The flat reflection method will only allow you to give the illusion of a floating FLAT image. The parabolic mirror effect in TT creates the illusion of an image ABOVE the physical screen, AND the image kinda "follows you" from any angle in front of the machine.
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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2008, 01:23:14 pm »
What chad said.  The flat reflection method will only allow you to give the illusion of a floating FLAT image. The parabolic mirror effect in TT creates the illusion of an image ABOVE the physical screen, AND the image kinda "follows you" from any angle in front of the machine.


I thought about this a bit on the way in to work this morning.  While you couldn't make a Time Traveler that way... say you replaced the overlay in an AD cab with an LCD.  You would effectively have two different monitors working the same reflective surface.  You could do some interesting things with that.

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2008, 05:47:53 pm »
Chad I am unsure what you mean by that last post, if you could elaborate more that would be cool.

It sounds like interesting is another word for possible, am I right in that assumption?
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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2008, 07:03:32 pm »
Oh I get it, like one image on the plexi is the static background & the other is the moving image aka game.

Shucks, this idea of mine is starting to loose steam.
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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2008, 07:37:38 pm »
I understood what he meant... but there's no need for it. 

You can already do overlays in MAME so why would you need two monitors with an image combined on a mirror?


I didn't say anything about MAME.  I'm talking about the concept in general. 

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2008, 07:53:28 pm »
I understood what he meant... but there's no need for it. 

You can already do overlays in MAME so why would you need two monitors with an image combined on a mirror?


I didn't say anything about MAME.  I'm talking about the concept in general. 
Still, you would get two overlapping images. What good would that do?

Or does the image change if you angle the monitor slightly (ie created some sort of 3D effect)?

I always loved those double parabolic mirror gadgets where an object that's inside appears to float above it. They should do that with a monitor image  :P
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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2008, 08:00:18 pm »
Still, you would get two overlapping images. What good would that do?


Depends on what the images are of, really.  Who wouldn't want to play tetris and watch a show on the same screen at the same time?   :laugh2:

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2008, 10:12:39 pm »
I found a way to make the magic parabolic mirror.

Yeah I know they sell them online but I dont want a table top Time Traveler.....hmm, actually that's kind of cool ;D

Start watching @ the 4:55 point in the video (unless you want to waste 5 minutes like I did):


Ok, well I did my part in finding the info so one of you needs to make a half dozen of these mirrors so we all get home brew holograph arcades  ;)

Seriously, I want to be the guy full of ideas that other people execute.

The ideas, not me, dont execute me.

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« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 10:14:29 pm by pinballwizard79 »
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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2008, 10:33:19 pm »
I thought about this a bit on the way in to work this morning.  While you couldn't make a Time Traveler that way... say you replaced the overlay in an AD cab with an LCD.  You would effectively have two different monitors working the same reflective surface.  You could do some interesting things with that.
That could be interesting. You would have stuff in front that truly looks a bit separated from the main image. Of course, people generally stand in one spot when playing games, so we wouldn't see the effect stand out very much.
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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2008, 10:39:36 pm »
I found a way to make the magic parabolic mirror.

That's pretty interesting for a basis on how to create a reproduction mirror for a time traveller.  If I recall, the original mirror was black plastic and it was a quarter of a sphere.  While the mirror they made was not nearly deep enough, as previously said, it's a good basis for ideas.  Also, you wouldn't want a hole in the middle of your mirror as it would be noticable on your image.  Thanks for the movie it was pretty interesting.

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2008, 02:43:32 am »
I also beleive that Time Traveller's Laserdisc did something weird with the way the video was encoded.   If I recall correctly, it was flipped backwards and may be upside down.

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2008, 09:07:40 am »
Seriously, I want to be the guy full of ideas that other people execute.

The ideas, not me, dont execute me.



EDIT: we need a bigger oven  :'(


Man, I hope those two ideas weren't connceted.   :o

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2008, 09:10:43 am »
That could be interesting. You would have stuff in front that truly looks a bit separated from the main image. Of course, people generally stand in one spot when playing games, so we wouldn't see the effect stand out very much.

I was thinking you could create an actual parallax type scroll.  Or you could go even further and have two separate games going with two players.  Wouldn't that be trippy?  Offset the images by a few inches and have two games of Pac Man going.  For single player action you could just have the single game going twice, but that might be more weird than cool.

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2008, 10:27:37 am »
What chad said.  The flat reflection method will only allow you to give the illusion of a floating FLAT image. The parabolic mirror effect in TT creates the illusion of an image ABOVE the physical screen, AND the image kinda "follows you" from any angle in front of the machine.


I thought about this a bit on the way in to work this morning.  While you couldn't make a Time Traveler that way... say you replaced the overlay in an AD cab with an LCD.  You would effectively have two different monitors working the same reflective surface.  You could do some interesting things with that.
I understood what he meant... but there's no need for it. 

You can already do overlays in MAME so why would you need two monitors with an image combined on a mirror?


I didn't say anything about MAME.  I'm talking about the concept in general. 
Still, you would get two overlapping images. What good would that do?

Or does the image change if you angle the monitor slightly (ie created some sort of 3D effect)?

I always loved those double parabolic mirror gadgets where an object that's inside appears to float above it. They should do that with a monitor image  :P

I can think of at least one great application for two overlapping images:  one is a vector monitor displaying a game, and the other is the LCD displaying the overlay in vmame.  In my mind, this would greatly enhance Warrior, Battlezone, Star Castle, etc.  In fact, I don't see any reason this wouldn't work just fine with a decased LCD monitor, just like some have made home theater projectors with LCDs and overhead projectors.  I'm a little pissed I didn't think of this before.   :banghead: 

Hmm, could be time to search ebay for a cheap 19" viewable LCD...

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2008, 10:46:45 am »
I can think of at least one great application for two overlapping images:  one is a vector monitor displaying a game, and the other is the LCD displaying the overlay in vmame.  In my mind, this would greatly enhance Warrior, Battlezone, Star Castle, etc.  In fact, I don't see any reason this wouldn't work just fine with a decased LCD monitor, just like some have made home theater projectors with LCDs and overhead projectors.  I'm a little pissed I didn't think of this before.   :banghead: 

Hmm, could be time to search ebay for a cheap 19" viewable LCD...


That's where I was originally going with the idea before jim declared it useless... it is why I used AD as the example.  It wouldn't be hard at all to improve a few games by using active overlays.  How much cooler could AD be if the painted meteors were moving too?  Or if you were overlaying gameplay data as well?  Control scheme info for the first ten seconds perhaps which is very valuable on oddly schemed vector games.

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2008, 11:40:34 am »
I can think of at least one great application for two overlapping images:  one is a vector monitor displaying a game, and the other is the LCD displaying the overlay in vmame.  In my mind, this would greatly enhance Warrior, Battlezone, Star Castle, etc.  In fact, I don't see any reason this wouldn't work just fine with a decased LCD monitor, just like some have made home theater projectors with LCDs and overhead projectors.  I'm a little pissed I didn't think of this before.   :banghead:
  :o  OH what a great idea! I've been wanting to make a Vectrex cabaret (with a real vectrex) and this would take care of the overlay issue... (though it's a bit of overkill... Vectrex + PC + PC monitor )
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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2008, 12:02:06 pm »
I can think of at least one great application for two overlapping images:  one is a vector monitor displaying a game, and the other is the LCD displaying the overlay in vmame.  In my mind, this would greatly enhance Warrior, Battlezone, Star Castle, etc.  In fact, I don't see any reason this wouldn't work just fine with a decased LCD monitor, just like some have made home theater projectors with LCDs and overhead projectors.  I'm a little pissed I didn't think of this before.   :banghead:
  :o  OH what a great idea! I've been wanting to make a Vectrex cabaret (with a real vectrex) and this would take care of the overlay issue... (though it's a bit of overkill... Vectrex + PC + PC monitor )


Overkill?  Nonsense!  Also, why limit yourself to just Vectrex games?  You could run the Vectrex the regular way with overlays projected by the PC, then buy a ZVG, install a switch to reroute monitor input and controls from the Vectrex to the PC, and play all of the arcade vectors, too, with overlays where appropriate.  (You'd probably want to rotate the monitor, too.)  Should only cost you $1000 or so...   ;)

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2008, 01:23:57 pm »

The Vectrex does make a good bartop.  A guy I know locally has one of the very few known Vectrex Minicades.  It was a coin op that ran a Vectrex with the controller on a timing circuit... time runs out, the stick stops working.

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2008, 01:36:26 pm »

The Vectrex does make a good bartop.  A guy I know locally has one of the very few known Vectrex Minicades.  It was a coin op that ran a Vectrex with the controller on a timing circuit... time runs out, the stick stops working.
Ooo! got link?
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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2008, 01:41:58 pm »

The Vectrex does make a good bartop.  A guy I know locally has one of the very few known Vectrex Minicades.  It was a coin op that ran a Vectrex with the controller on a timing circuit... time runs out, the stick stops working.
Ooo! got link?



Most of the links Google shows are websensed to me... but if you google Minicade it will show you a few pages on it.  If you want I can hook you up with the guy's contact info so you can email him yourself.  I haven't talked to him in a while but I'll be shocked if he doesn't still have it.

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2008, 02:07:26 pm »
RayB, you might also want to check out this project, which looks like it could accomodate a LCD in front of the Vectrex with a little modification, although it's probably not big enough to hold a PC. 

http://www.xs4all.nl/~bakkerp/Projects/VecCab.htm

A cabaret, though, would be no problem. 

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2008, 02:08:57 pm »
Hey that page has a pic of the Minicade I was talking about:




Matt, are you proposing a see-thru LCD?

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2008, 04:31:04 pm »
Hey that page has a pic of the Minicade I was talking about:




Matt, are you proposing a see-thru LCD?

Yes, if it would work.  I may be wrong, but I think LCDs are more-or-less transparent with no current applied.  The more current, the more the crystals are twisted, the less light gets through the two polarized panels, and the darker it gets.  You decase it, mount it in front of the vector monitor, and you should be able to see the vectors through the projected overlay. 

(Here is one of those DIY projectors I was talking about.)

http://www.instructables.com/id/S1A1L23FGC213NR/

You could also use an LCD panel for overhead projectors, I suppose, but all those I've seen are expensive, small, and bulky, so you'd have to take the case off anyway. 

Or, as is entirely possible, you won't be able to see much of anything though a decased monitor, and the half-silvered mirror is the only viable option for such an undertaking.   Takes up a lot more space though, and one of the images would have to be reversed.  Not sure how you do that in vmame, short of switching x-deflection wires to the vector monitor...  I'll put this on my long list of things to mess with.   :dunno


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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2016, 04:26:47 pm »
Hello All

Looking at re-invigorating this thread. Mainly because I've long pondered building a Time Traveler cab and many years ago built up some spare parts including the original LD (which still works), the controller PCB and also I have a Holusseum PCB.

Anyway, the biggest obsticle was making the mirror and recreating the visual effect. There are many myths about this from what I've been reading over the years.

1) It's not a Parabolic mirror. It's not really a mirror at all. It was a quarter segment concave curved dome, which was gloss black. This is why the cab needed such covering (like a theatre) because a mirror basically ruined the effect (it would have shown the Sony Trinitron TV it was being displayed on!). I have managed to make one of these:



2) The glass across the top isn't anything special in way of a lense. I think it's main purpose was to protect the dome from dust and also place those conceptial shapes (cube, sphere, etc) to help the eyes focus on the screen.

So basically, whilst I have lots of spare parts - most notibly the LD itself (which I'd like to rip to a high quality video to get the original outlay, instead of the doctored DVD version). I wondered if anyone was still interested in Time Traveler and (to start with) actually had the exact measurements of the cabinet?

pbj

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2016, 10:10:29 pm »
That's for busting that myth regarding the mirror.  It's funny the BS that gets repeated as "insider knowledge" in this hobby - mostly found in the "special notes" sections on KLOV entries.


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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2016, 02:44:01 pm »



Pic isn't loading for me but I'm definitely still very interested in this.  I will check again from home to see if it loads there.

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2016, 07:59:53 pm »
Quote
I think it's main purpose was to protect the dome from dust and also place those conceptial shapes (cube, sphere, etc) to help the eyes focus on the screen.

 Not really to focus on the screen..  but actually,  to give the viewer a three dimensional spatial reference... as to where the floor was... and or just as a reference to provide actual visual depth.    This helped to make the projected images look more 3d.

 It also severed as a little bit of an advertisement..  as I believe they were florescent colored.. maybe black-light lit, to make them glow.


 Interestingly.. one could probably simulate this without any stereoscopic / parabolic device... using a head/face tracker + some software.

 Converting the video footage into true stereoscopic 3d might be interesting.. for use on VR goggles.  Though.. Id personally rather see Dragons Lair converted first.   :)

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2016, 06:27:37 am »
I'm definitely interested in this thread and would love one day to make my own cab as I doubt I would ever find one for sale over here in the UK.

How did you manage to make the "mirror".

There was recently a Laserdisc, board and mirror for sale on ebay in the uk, and the pictures of the mirror seemed to show that it wasn't a perfect quarter sphere. I look liked it was perfectly round in one direction but a flatter curve in the another.

I've got several pictures on my laptop at home of cabs in different states of assembly, but haven't found any exact dimensions yet other than fro flyers, etc.

I've also got Daphne/Singe working with the Digital Leisure DVD rip to be able to play the game, but keep searching to find a digital copy/rip of the original laserdisc so it doesnt have the grid and blocks added by Digital Leisure, which I could then get Daphne working with.

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2016, 08:17:09 am »
How did you manage to make the "mirror".

I can tell by mounting holes that this is a mirror ball, typically used in industry (if you could see the other side it would should a normally mirrored surface (convex of course). I am assuming he cut it on table saw and painted the interior gloss black (or completely lucked out and the inside was already a gloss black finish). Actually, I see they come in 180 degree versions...so no cutting involved http://www.safety-security-mirrors.com/reflect-a-dome-safety-and-security-mirrors.html.

EDIT: Solidpro says it comes gloss black...ignore my paint comment.

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2016, 12:38:16 am »
Hello All

Looking at re-invigorating this thread. Mainly because I've long pondered building a Time Traveler cab and many years ago built up some spare parts including the original LD (which still works), the controller PCB and also I have a Holusseum PCB.

Anyway, the biggest obsticle was making the mirror and recreating the visual effect. There are many myths about this from what I've been reading over the years.

1) It's not a Parabolic mirror. It's not really a mirror at all. It was a quarter segment concave curved dome, which was gloss black. This is why the cab needed such covering (like a theatre) because a mirror basically ruined the effect (it would have shown the Sony Trinitron TV it was being displayed on!). I have managed to make one of these:



2) The glass across the top isn't anything special in way of a lense. I think it's main purpose was to protect the dome from dust and also place those conceptial shapes (cube, sphere, etc) to help the eyes focus on the screen.

So basically, whilst I have lots of spare parts - most notibly the LD itself (which I'd like to rip to a high quality video to get the original outlay, instead of the doctored DVD version). I wondered if anyone was still interested in Time Traveler and (to start with) actually had the exact measurements of the cabinet?

Where you able to find out the size of the mirror from corner to corner?

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Re: SEGA Hologram Technology (Hologram Time Traveler)
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2016, 12:22:30 am »
Is this accurate ?

http://www.dragons-lair-project.com/tech/images/TTMirrorInfo.jpg

Would be cool if he chimed in for us. But good find!! thanks for sharing that

  
 

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