Foley's Unfotunately Back...

[Goz]

* Goz checks.... yep he's still a ---tallywhacker---

[saint]

RE: This thread -- What Nivo said. Because of past history and the relative civility (despite the occasional euphemism), I haven't moderated this thread yet. I appreciate everyone keeping it civil while various points of view are expressed.

--- saint "Chief Tallywhacker"

[davidrfoley]

That's more like it Goz   No we are getting somewhere.   

[SithMaster]

Now, how about shutting your useless mouth unless you can actually contribute to this forum and discussion that has value to the members.

Let's do what I have always done and let the members decide whose posts have value.

You ain't saint.

I'll stand by what I post, you stand by what you post and we'll see who is the bigger ---tallywhacker---.

I think Cheffo' posts are better simply because they are more humorous.  To see what the entire forum thinks we are going to need Texasmame to start a poll.

[Xiaou2]

 Im no fan of what had been done in the past... however,  here is a cool
Pinball device that interests me...

 Firstly,  you say you use optics to read the plunger?   Is it simply on/off,
or is it true analog?  Meaning.. can I release the plunger from 6/8 ths  back and
get 6/8 th  power?

 Next, does the latest Visual pinball support the features?
Planning on making that happen soon?

 Does Future Pinball support them too?
Planning on?

 What is the cost of the device?


 Can force feedback be added?  =  Power supply + 3 real pinball coils.
(One coil per each virtual flipper, and one coil for any other kicker coil)


 Realistically, I do not believe Virtual pinball will do very well unless it has
both coil feedback and has a stereoscopic 3d display with excellent
response time. 

 
 I think others should get over the past.   Mr. Foley has the power to
bring great devices to the Byoac scene that other players are not
capable of due to high costs, inexperience, lack of contacts..etc.

 Nobody here is perfect, and surely many here have done something in
their life that would seem to be unforgivable.  Yet, people have forgiven
us, and we have become better people.

 Weather or not David is a nice guy is really irrelevant however.   He is
on a better course of action,  and can provide us with things we desire.

 He has shown that he is willing to be helpful,  and has contributed to
the progress of Visual Pinball - giving away the source code improvements
for free.

 Just get over it already.

[davidrfoley]

The Pinball Wizard has a keyboard mapping function so that motion is translated into keypresses for those engines that don't support analog input for nudging.  We are working with engine authors to have built in analog support.

The MSRP of the device is $299, however, like all products there will be discount outlets.

Force Feedback is not built into the first product.  I am working with Immersion Corporation using thier FF technology to build a "pro" version that includes forces.  Rather than a specific coil for specific function, we are working on a set of forces for every device in a pinball machine so that you'll have a very realistic feedback experience.

The plunger is analog.  The optical sensor is housed at the end of a tube over the plunger.  As you move the plunger in or out, the reflection inside the tube changes and the sensor notes the changes at translates that too movement.

[ChadTower]

However, you deviated from stated goals and went after non-competing vendors in the community, claiming to own a trademark where you clearly did not. The application was not only pending, but your affirmations were specious.

I will preface this by saying I really don't care what he has done in the past - I'm not a MAME user nor a target for his products.  I don't have much at stake on either end of this argument.

It should, however, be noted that trademarks must be defended.  A trademark that is violated, but not defended, is considered abandoned.  It should also be noted that trademarks within a small marketspace, and marketspace here is a bit ambiguous between meaning physically or commercially, does not necessarily have to have completed registration and approval in order to be defensible.  There is a valid legal point of view that shutting down auctions like that and going after vendors may actually have been necessary in order to win approval of the trademark.

Now, going after the trademark itself with no logical claim to it... that all depends on whether or not you buy into the "I did what I had to do to protect my own business from illegal competitors".

[FrizzleFried]

...thank you Johnny Cochran.

[Level42]

 

[Xiaou2]

  $300 is pretty steep for a  Virtual pinball interface.   It may be expected..
being that its developed for the industry as always..  but I believe
most here would be looking for something in the  $100 range... with
expansion such as force feedback bought at a later time at additional cost.

 I think you could do better by getting several quality pins simulated to
perfection,  packaging it up into a compilation cd,  and including the
controller as an   All in one package  for around  $100  at retail stores,
all over the world.

 Youd need great titles like  Bk2k,  Theatre of Magic,  Indiana Jones
(williams), Medievil Madness, Haunted House, Scared Stiff, 
Tales of the Arabian Knights, Creature From the Black Lagoon, Whitewater,
Fire!, Monster Bash..etc.   

 It may cost more to go that route..  But Id bet the returns would be so
much greater that way.

 As said... I, and Im sure many others would love a kit that actually works
with the current pin emus...  but I think the price is just to much to
justify the return value.

[Level42]

Wait a minute ? Is that Xiaou2, who despises Sterns' new pinballs ?

Would you actually CONSIDER a device so NOT getting close to the real thing ?? Now I've seen it all !


Even if I would only have the space for one pin (which actually is about the case) I would ALWAYS prefer one REAL pin over any emulation stuff, no matter how fancy.

[Level42]

But I wanted to say that I don't think this place (BYOAC) is the target demographic for such an item.

I decided to take the day away from the thread to see if I picked up any additional perspective and I did.

I noticed that the "haters", as Mr. Foley calls us, are not a bunch of MAME fanboys, but rather some of the more seasoned folks. They are folks who have 3,4,5,6,12,18 or 24 pins and vids, but just don't like the way that Mr. Foley has done business. I note that some of them are hobbyist/collectors and that some of them are folks who work/have worked in the industry.

I also find it interesting that the popular 2005 rage campaign against Mr. Foley (during which I commended him for posting here about his side of the story) was abandoned by the more casual MAMErs and that the people who object to him (myself included) actually are in the target demographic for the end product.

I dunno, guys, he legitimized emulation and got it mainstream with the UltraCade cabs.

When you said that, I thought about another guy, who also brought emulation to the mainstream.

Clay Cowgill.

And Clay has done a ton of stuff that actually has been good for the community.

And he is a nice guy.

And he never went after vendors in the community.

And I will support him wherever I get the chance.

 

Actually, Clay is also "discussed" on the KLOV forum. He re-surfaced and says he's working on a new SW/ESB kit that will include a number of interesting new stuff.

I am NOT saying Clay is "bad" or something like that, I haven't ever dealt with him, I am just reporting something I've read on the KLOV forum , PLEASE let this be clear. I'd love to see that SW/ESB kit materialize.

It's strange, people who come up with really interesting stuff get debated at any point in time (Mark Spaeth is another "victim". I prefer to keep my options open.....

[saint]

Clay Cowgill is one of the prophets of arcade gaming.

[ark_ader]

I have never seen any piracy or distribution of copyrighted works, which have benefitted so many copyright owners as arcade roms have.

Namco has made money on classic arcade games for several console platforms, as have Capcom and Midway.  I bet the total value is astronomical.

Without MAME many of these games would just die away, but I can understand Mr Foley's idea of taking the MAME name for his own purposes with Ultracade - as the marketed system could have been just as easily named Multiple Arcade Machine Entertainment.

The closure of Ebay sites was a good.  Nobody should be allowed to profit from roms or copyrighted works.  Burning companies being the [sic] exception to the rule.

The fact that Mr Foley is entering this forum, even though his "actions" were unfavourable to the masses on this site, is quite a redeeming quality. 

The thousands of people out there who own complete romsets, should not have them,  unless they have paid for them.  Unfortunately the majority of these roms are considered abandonware, yet still hold some value.  What value except for Jakks and a couple of others.

If Mr Foley were to contact these said offended companies to offer a package to those who own these romsets, to make their collection legitimate like STAR ROMS tried to, would the community think differently?  How many out there would embrace such a concept?  It had to be realistic.

Apparently video gaming is still making more money, and is looking even stronger through this recession.  To a businessman trying to make money from legitimate products, this side of classic gaming is a losing battle.  I can understand the pinball direction.

I'm no fan of Mr Foley or his previous actions to the community, but his actions are not completely without merit.  Some of the products he is inventing is interesting. This pinball gizmo has got my attention.

I have read this thread from the start, and Jeffo is definitely being accurate.  I think Mr Foley will have to ride this bumpy episode out, and try to be more positive and less argumentative with established members of this board.

As I am quite sure that Mr Foley can still benefit from the feedback, and look to getting his PR up from the dirt.

[protokatie]

OK..

Ich bin ein NEWB heir, can someone fill me in on this thread? Apparently someone (from what I can tell) is posting here again, but is somewhat unpopular due to transaction issues. Can someone clarify this for me? (Other than Turnarcade's website, I am not one to rush to judgement)

[FrizzleFried]

David Foley <> Christian Stango

It's all about the buck,   which in itself isn't a bad thing,   but when people resort to hurting others to make said buck,  then it gets a little tricky.

[davidrfoley]

You are correct fizzle, hurting others would be a bad thing.  I'm glad that I did not hurt anyone

[protokatie]

David Foley <> Christian Stango

It's all about the buck,   which in itself isn't a bad thing,   but when people resort to hurting others to make said buck,  then it gets a little tricky.

Ahh, ok. Gotcha. I will be placing 30 orders with slikstick tomorrow. As I know I can trust this guy.

[protokatie]

You are correct fizzle, hurting others would be a bad thing.  I'm glad that I did not hurt anyone

Well, I would think it fair if I were to ask you to clarify: Who are you and what business do you have/own? Just trying to keep on my toes here.

[davidrfoley]

Well, I think the who are you is pretty obvious (my user name is my real name)

At the moment I own HyperWare Technologies, although it's just me.  I used to own UltraCade Technologies which was acquired by Global VR in 2006.  I used to own HyperWare which was acquired by Quantum3D in 1998.

[Mauzy]

You are correct fizzle, hurting others would be a bad thing.  I'm glad that I did not hurt anyone

Well, I would think it fair if I were to ask you to clarify: Who are you and what business do you have/own? Just trying to keep on my toes here.

Have you read the thread? Cheffo went through what he's done that has everybody steamed...

[davidrfoley]

and also pointed out things that were associated to me, but I actually had nothing to do with.

[Level42]

Clay Cowgill is one of the prophets of arcade gaming.

Well, apparently  there were some issues with his Tempest multi-kit (blowing up boards.) Also APPARANTLY there were some issues with customer's problems handling and Frizz was not satisfied with his AS Multicade PCB's..........did that pay-back deal ever work out Frizz ?

AGAIN, I am NOT attacking anyone here, I'm just saying that people who create "special" stuff in the arcade scene are subject to debate. I have NO deals with either of these people (yet !).

Here's the KLOV thread:
http://forums.webmagic.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=2&Number=781215&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

[CheffoJeffo]

Thanks Level42 -- for the link and for making a good point.

[saint]

Interesting read, some stuff I didn't know.

[FrizzleFried]

Well, apparently  there were some issues with his Tempest multi-kit (blowing up boards.) Also APPARANTLY there were some issues with customer's problems handling and Frizz was not satisfied with his AS Multicade PCB's..........did that pay-back deal ever work out Frizz ?

Clay and I communicated and dealt with issues.  Clay was willing to buy both boards from me,  but I decided to keep them based on what I heard and how I heard it.  I was satisfied with the outcome.

[CheffoJeffo]

Never have figured out why collectors are so hot and bothered over Clay Cowgill... it was amazing to watch the RGVAC 'about face' when it was revealed Clay did the Multi-Williams PCBs in those crappy cabinets.

That was indeed kinda bizarre to watch.

[ChadTower]

Never have figured out why collectors are so hot and bothered over Clay Cowgill... it was amazing to watch the RGVAC 'about face' when it was revealed Clay did the Multi-Williams PCBs in those crappy cabinets.

Can't say I've used Clay's arcade stuff but I have always loved his PS1->Vectrex controller adapter.  That one is just great stuff.

[Dartful Dodger]

This guy legally copyrighted the name of a product that allows people to play copyrighted products illegally.

Am I the only one that finds the intense outrage over this ironically funny?

[davidrfoley]

You can not copyright a name.

[RayB]

Can't say I've used Clay's arcade stuff but I have always loved his PS1->Vectrex controller adapter.  That one is just great stuff.

  Got a link?! I gotta get me one of those!

[ChadTower]

  Got a link?! I gotta get me one of those!

I can't see multigame.com from here to check if it's still there or not.  I bought mine years ago, it took him many months to ship it, and I don't know that he has ever produced them again.  Google does show it still up here but I get a websense page from it.  It is quite cool - remappable buttons, full analog support for PS1 Dual Shock, though I always found the original PS1 controller worked best for most Vec games.

[Ummon]

Check out UltraStyle, its a freeware UI for MAME that was made after the UltraCade UI design.

It's a dead project.  I think the last version of MAME it worked with was .95 or so.

I tried the new patch but I got some weird error in process. With Hyperspin around the corner, you might look that direction.

[DreamArcades]

DreamArcades was selling unlicensed games.  They had bundles of ROMs that they did not license. 

Dream Arcades has never sold arcade games with unlicensed games. All our arcades include licensed PC or Rom titles. Anyone stating otherwise is misinformed or lying.

The MAME issue was resolved years ago.  If you feel that bringing it up all over again is useful and the moderators feel it is productive and of value, then we'll keep beating the topic over and over, however, none of the people actually involved care to keep going over it.

Ohh, we care. However, on the advice of my lawyer I'm remaining silent.

Along those same lines I really shouldn't reply any further on this thread, sorry everyone.