Foley's Unfotunately Back...

[ChadTower]

What about it "doesn't work with" current versions of MAME?  Isn't it just an interface layer making cmdline calls to the mame executables?

[Cakemeister]

It has to do with the XML files that MAME puts out with its -listxml option. The XML changes every few versions, and it broke Ultrastyle's parser back in the late 0.9xs.

[ChadTower]

It has to do with the XML files that MAME puts out with its -listxml option. The XML changes every few versions, and it broke Ultrastyle's parser back in the late 0.9xs.

Ah.  That's not too hard a fix, you're right.  I assume they wouldn't make major changes to the xml structure.  Most of the time things like that are just additions that have to be accounted for on the parser end of the plugin.  Depending on how good the Blitzmax language is at text extraction/reporting that could be a little as an hour's work.  If it does it more like C it will take longer but probably still a one night job.

[NIVO]

Check out UltraStyle, its a freeware UI for MAME that was made after the UltraCade UI design.

It's a dead project.  I think the last version of MAME it worked with was .95 or so.

Are we gonna blame David for THAT, too?

Its dead Jim. Live long and prosper.....or something.

[Cakemeister]

Sure, you can do that. For someone like myself with experience with the XML files but not with the Blitz code, that would be easier. Since the Ultrastyle code breaks up the list generation process into several steps, you could substitute your hacked XML for the 0.126 xml and just skip to the second step.

[RayB]

OK OK people I humbly retract my post. David referred to "Ultraflop" machines which I interpreted as Ultrapin. Sorry for the confusion.

Source: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=81666.msg852391#msg852391

 

[Ken Layton]

I am of the age to have played REAL Gottlieb pinball machines not a video recreation or computer simulation. The only way to have the look, feel, and fun of playing a real pinball machine is to play a real pinball machine.

Currently I am restoring a 1964 Gottlieb Ship Mates 4 player pinball.

[danny_galaga]

Check out UltraStyle, its a freeware UI for MAME that was made after the UltraCade UI design.

It's a dead project.  I think the last version of MAME it worked with was .95 or so.

im still on the ultrastyle mailing list, and indeed there was an announcement not that long ago that someone was working on it again. i think for some people it wont matter if it only works up to version 95 or whatever. im happen with v78 for instance...

[CheffoJeffo]

Does the phrase, do your homework ring a bell? 

If you actually read the replies from Aaron Giles, I tried several times to contact the MAME team for help in putting a stop to people that were building and selling MAME based cabinets with no permission and no licenses for the games.  After no response I filed the trademark in an effort to stop the unfair and illegal competition.  I also transferred the trademark over to the team on my own accord, even though legally I could have kept it.  If my effort was to steal the mark, I would have succeeded, and still owned it to this day. However, that wasn't my goal or attempt.  Aaron confirmed this and my actions led to the MAME team cleaning up the commercial use of MAME, and it was good for the team and the community. 

In order to understand this, you would have to educate yourself, and most people can't be bothered, instead they want to just run around and make uneducated flames about how evil I am.  If you are too lazy to bother to understand the facts about something, so be it. 

Now, I think we can safely say that this isn't an entirely accurate representation ... because I looked into it after publicly questioning people who had auctions pulled due to your reports on eBay (after I read your spiel and thought you were being totally honest).

As I recall, you had auctions pulled as if you owned the trademark when you didn't. Further, you had auctions pulled where the sellers were legitimate, had legitimate licenses (or at least permissions) for both MAME and the ROMS they were selling.

I'm not sure how you can conclude that it was good for the community -- to my, admittedly casual, monitoring, the sales of MAME cabs has not decreased, but it has spread from eBay to local ads and has actually increased (at least in my area).

As an aside, you would do better if you jsut stopped insulting everybody in the community who disagrees with your actions, past and present -- *you* are the one with the reputation problem. I speak here not just of the emulation crowd, but of the collector crowd, the pinball simulation crowd and even the ops that I spend time with say you have a taint on your name (even those who used to stock Ultracades).

I have not seen a characterization in this thread made by someone other than you that is inaccurate. You had absolutely no legitimate claim to a trademark for MAME and yet made application for it. Whatever your reasons were (and I don't have a problem with most of what you claim as your reasons), the "theft" characterization is more accurate that the representations that you made in your application and you have no right to dismiss those who say so.

I have no doubt that you will tell me how highly you are regarded amongst the upper echelons of the amusement industry, but when the folks on the ground don't want to buy the stuff that you are involved with, I don't see how your continued insults can help your cause.

To put it in perspective, your continued ragings make you sound a whole lot like Christian Stango.

He also did cool stuff and was a total ---tallywhacker---.

 

[davidrfoley]

As I said, I'm not going to continue to argue the facts.  No one was pulled from eBay that had a legitimate license.  I know, I had letters from companies like Capcom and Midway authorizing me to police eBay.

here are a couple of examples:



and



Since you were not someone that was involved in any of it, you have no grounds to try and state the facts, all you are doing is perpetuating stories instead of actually being involved.  You aren't Aaron, and you don't speak for him.  Aaron confirmed that I had attempted to get them to do something and they didn't and he and I worked together to put in the proper protections. 

[CheffoJeffo]

Since you were not someone that was involved in any of it, you have no grounds to try and state the facts, all you are doing is perpetuating stories instead of actually being involved.  You aren't Aaron, and you don't speak for him.  Aaron confirmed that I had attempted to get them to do something and they didn't and he and I worked together to put in the proper protections. 

No, I am CheffoJeffo and I speak for myself.

*I* have never pretended otherwise. 

I have nothing to do with MAMEDev and don't even have a cabinet running MAME.

I would think, that as a collector who buys from distributors who used to sell stuff that you made, that I actually lie in your target market.

But, as you are wont to do, you simply dismiss my opinion and further convince me that I can't possibly support you or anything that you are involved with.  Even when you come up with cool stuff, you insist on being a complete ---tallywhacker---. 

This isn't the first time that you have come up with cool stuff and then convinced me that my pin and vid dollars are better spent elsewhere.

No one was pulled from eBay that had a legitimate license.  I know, I had letters from companies like Capcom and Midway authorizing me to police eBay.

Really ?

David Foley successfully lobbied Ebay to shutdown my Cocktail arcade kit auctions last night. He said I was using illegally using MAME as a keyword.

DreamArcades was selling only properly licensed ROMS with his kits and you had him shut down because he used MAME as a keyword.

What do companies like Capcom and Midway have to do with authorizing you for that ?

And, despite your claim that you were only going after the cabinet sellers who were impinging on your legitimate ROM licenses, we saw stuff like this (and, yes I know about the need to defend trademarks - I own a few myself ... but the situation isn't quite the same, mine were born of my work):

My email correspondence with Mr David Foley:

Message #1:

Comments: Your use of the MAME name and MAME logo is a violation of our registered trademark (USPTO Reg # 76627578).  Rather than proceed with legal action against you and your company, and getting lawyers involved, we would like to resolve this directly.  Please contact me by Wednsday to discuss.  David R. Foley, CEO UltraCade Technologies.

My reply to message #1:

I remember looking up the Mame logo and it had a "dead" indicator
meaning it wasn't registered.  I just print arcade marquees for enthusiasts'
cabinets.  What information do you need from me, or what are you
requesting?

Regards,
Brent Bilis


Message #2:

It's not dead, and we own it.  If you would like to pay us a royalty on the
graphics that you print, then we could probably come to some compromise.

My reply to message #2:

What type of fee structure are you considering?

Regards,
Brent Bilis


Message #3:

What do you sell them for, what is your cost of goods?

My reply to message #3:

I see that your status on the Mame logo as a trademark is only pending, and has not actually been granted.  The USPTO Reg # you posted below clearly states that your new application is pending - how could you state that you own it?  The US Patent and Trademark Office must not condone someone stating that they own a trademark when it is in this status.  It can be said with certainty that ultracade is not the proprietor of the Mame logo.  I'm certain that you're familiar with Nicola Salmoria.  I don't think it would be wise to discuss royalties until you have actually been granted the trademark, wouldn't you agree?   I will have to contact the attorney assigned to this trademark showing details of the Mame logo existing before ultracade along with your claim of ownership before considering any sort of royalty fees.

Regards,
Brent Bilis

WOW.... go away for a weekend with no Internet access and look what happens.   

Mr Folly also is trying to extort money from me:

"Please contact me immeadiately to discuss your unlicensed use of our registrered trademarks. I would much rather come to a licensing agreement than to shut you down, but we must discuss immeadiately or we will have to pursue legal matters."

I replied to him before I read these messages.

"Hey David, I just got back from a short vacation with no email / internet.
I have permission from Kelsey over at Oscar controls to use his logo.  On artwork there is an implied copyright from the artist and as long as he gives permission or is paid for the right to use it then it can be used.

Your threat above does come in direct confliction from what you stated on your website about "no desire to use the M.A.M.E name or logos, we simply wish to find ways to prevent illegal distribution of classic arcade games"  It seems like you also wish to profit from this by getting money out of sites like mine...

Looking forward to your response"

Scott Prior
www.mamemarquees.com

Original threads:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=32730.0

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=32448.0

Would you like to play a game ?

I would have been totally satisfied with something along the lines of "My intentions were good, but stuff didn't quite work out that way. I'm sorry for the inconvenience and hope that we can all work together to improve things for the community." I really wanted you to succeed with your iROMS and gun interface. Really, truly wanted you to succeed.

But, at the end of the day, you are who you are, and things unfolded, not surprisingly, as they did.

 

[davidrfoley]

DreamArcades was selling unlicensed games.  They had bundles of ROMs that they did not license.  They used character graphics on their cabinets that were not licensed.

The MAME issue was resolved years ago.  If you feel that bringing it up all over again is useful and the moderators feel it is productive and of value, then we'll keep beating the topic over and over, however, none of the people actually involved care to keep going over it.

[CheffoJeffo]

If you feel that bringing it up all over again is useful and the moderators feel it is productive and of value, then we'll keep beating the topic over and over, however, none of the people actually involved care to keep going over it.

Actually, my intent was just to point out what a ---tallywhacker--- you are ...

[davidrfoley]

Well if you must look in the mirror, so be it  In our your words, the sum total of what you have to contribute to this thread is to call me a ---tallywhacker---.  Mission accomplished.  It would have been much easier to just say I think you are ---tallywhacker---.

You've made your statement.  Now, how about shutting your useless mouth unless you can actually contribute to this forum and discussion that has value to the members.

[Hoopz]

I think the difference is that CheffoJeffo isn't here trying to push his product and turning people off by what he is saying, while you are (and your grammar is terrible at times).  Christian did this quite a bit and look how things turned out for him.

Right or wrong, your ability to communicate effectively to potential customers is extremely lacking.

[davidrfoley]

I didn't start this thread, and I'm not here pushing my products, I've simply been answering questions.  The only threads that I have started were about new products that I am developing, and asking for input as to the desired feature set.

[FrizzleFried]

He also used strong-arm tactics that did nothing for him except gain him a "label" and eventually get him canned...

... as the topic title of this thread states UNFORTUNATELY this piece of work is "back".  I have a sneaky suspicion we'd all be better off if he simply crawled back under the rock he's decided to crawl out of.

Mr. Foley,  you may want to take my advice... keep to the "back ground" of your projects.  You'd sell many many more units if people DIDN'T know you were involved... you've been forever labeled a snake-in-the-grass and the vast majority of folks here will never trust you.  Ever.

[davidrfoley]

Sticks and Stones.

I'm not going away.

[FrizzleFried]

Sticks and Stones.

I'm not going away.

And you will be called on any future BS I am sure.  Enjoy your stay.

[davidrfoley]

I love forums, and will enjoy my stay for sure!

[pinballwizard79]

No bashing here, I have not been a forum guy for long enough to even know my own reputation.

But I wanted to say that I don't think this place (BYOAC) is the target demographic for such an item.

I mean, how many of us have an "Arcade Legends" or "Global Arcade" in our basement? Certainly there are a few, but I bet that's less than 1% of our group.

With VP free to download, tables abundant, game roms hosted online & LCD panels dropping in price daily it seems like a bunch of DIY guys like us would just make one for like, oh I dunno -$1,500.

Then we could avoid dependency on a 3rd party for tables, too bad we cant do that with foreign oil.

So, yeah.....um I want to build a solar car & a Multi Pin.

Anyway, good luck & if its launched with a TON of really good tables then I may just buy one to avoid the endless tweaking required to make it happen.






 

[davidrfoley]

PinWiz, I've never tried to sell products in this forum, nor would I.  You are absolutely right that members of this forum are not the target audience for machines such as the UltraCade machine, and never were.  I never assumed anyone in a forum such as this would want to buy anything other than components.  This forum is based on build your own.  I've only ever responded to threads about my products, never started them. 

[DrewKaree]

PinWiz, I've never tried to sell products in this forum, nor would I.  You are absolutely right that members of this forum are not the target audience for machines such as the UltraCade machine, and never were.  I never assumed anyone in a forum such as this would want to buy anything other than components.  This forum is based on build your own.  I've only ever responded to threads about my products, never started them. 

So basically, you're here for the free advice on what people would like to see in the products you're developing for sale to a larger or more upscale demographic?  Is that close, or can you characterize your threads more accurately?

[davidrfoley]

No, I'm here in this thread to respond to a thread about me.

I've started other threads to look for input for products that don't exist that people in this forum may want.  I've been a supporter of classic game technology years before MAME even existed, selling PC based adapters since the mid 90's.  If there is a big enough need for a product or feature I'll develop one and offer it for sale, either directly or though other channels.  In the past I have licensed many of my products to companies such as Happ Controls.

The larger scale commercial products that I developed for an audience outside of this forum now belong to someone else, and I'm no longer involved with them.

[Goz]

Well if you must look in the mirror, so be it  In our your words, the sum total of what you have to contribute to this thread is to call me a ---tallywhacker---.  Mission accomplished.  It would have been much easier to just say I think you are ---tallywhacker---.

I think you are a ---tallywhacker---....

[davidrfoley]

Thanks Goz, that was a useful and informative post.

[Goz]

Thanks Goz, that was a useful and informative post.

You did say you preferred it. 

[DrewKaree]

I've started other threads to look for input for products that don't exist that people in this forum may want.

But if the people in this forum are your self-admitted non-target audience, what difference would it then make what we/they thought of your product?

I'm trying to understand why you've come back.  Really I am.

You've said the BYOAC community are "sponges" and "pirates", and have stated as much that we aren't even your target audience.  Given your past statements of this community, your current statements about us not being of particular interest (the target audience thing), and your general tone and attitude in response to the issues brought up about - again, YOUR statements - why do you believe there is honestly anything that such a group of troglodytes has to offer you other than free brainstorming for ideas you've missed or hadn't considered?

You're coming to the people you shat on in order to create better products for....the people.....who aren't.....your....target, um... audience.



Apparently you really DO see this community as THAT stupid that they'd want to help or share ideas with someone such as yourself.  Either that, or you're so self-absorbed that you can't help but respond wherever your name pops up, and your natural "personality" just bubbles up to the top, kinda like a poo stew.

[davidrfoley]

But if the people in this forum are your self-admitted non-target audience, what difference would it then make what we/they thought of your product?

I don't care if people don't like my product, but I do care when my products are misrepresented.

I'm trying to understand why you've come back.  Really I am.

As I have previously stated.  I was notified of a new thread where I was being bashed and false statements about me and products that I am involved in were being made.  Since people take forums as gospel and factual, I need to make sure my side of the story is heard, otherwise the haters would just spew misinformation as fact.

You've said the BYOAC community are "sponges" and "pirates"

This is the type of nonsense and flat out misinformation that I have to combat.  Show me a single quote where I called anyone a sponge or a pirate.  It doesn't exist, and I never said that.  To quote me as saying that is pure fiction.

I also don't lump everyone in this forum into the hater group, and there are many that do want to actually have useful and productive discussions about topics that matter to this forum.  Just because you are so clouded and/or jaded that you can't be bothered to talk about useful things, doesn't mean others don't find this forum useful and wish to discuss topics of interest.

I've never put down this community, only individuals who seem to glorify misrepresentations, such as you have done in your posting just now for dramatic effect.

[CheffoJeffo]

But I wanted to say that I don't think this place (BYOAC) is the target demographic for such an item.

I decided to take the day away from the thread to see if I picked up any additional perspective and I did.

I noticed that the "haters", as Mr. Foley calls us, are not a bunch of MAME fanboys, but rather some of the more seasoned folks. They are folks who have 3,4,5,6,12,18 or 24 pins and vids, but just don't like the way that Mr. Foley has done business. I note that some of them are hobbyist/collectors and that some of them are folks who work/have worked in the industry.

I also find it interesting that the popular 2005 rage campaign against Mr. Foley (during which I commended him for posting here about his side of the story) was abandoned by the more casual MAMErs and that the people who object to him (myself included) actually are in the target demographic for the end product.

I dunno, guys, he legitimized emulation and got it mainstream with the UltraCade cabs.

When you said that, I thought about another guy, who also brought emulation to the mainstream.

Clay Cowgill.

And Clay has done a ton of stuff that actually has been good for the community.

And he is a nice guy.

And he never went after vendors in the community.

And I will support him wherever I get the chance.

 

[CheffoJeffo]

Now, how about shutting your useless mouth unless you can actually contribute to this forum and discussion that has value to the members.

Let's do what I have always done and let the members decide whose posts have value.

You ain't saint.

I'll stand by what I post, you stand by what you post and we'll see who is the bigger ---tallywhacker---.

[davidrfoley]

if you are going to post useless flames and name calling at least come up with something original and more derogatory than ---tallywhacker---.  Come one now, you can be more creative than that can't you?

[CheffoJeffo]

I thought we should stay on topic .... 





You really don't seem to either care about or grasp the gist of what I started out saying. I completely understood what you said you were trying to accomplish with your MAME trademark application. I didn't think that you were horribly out of line, based on your stated intentions and goals. However, you deviated from stated goals and went after non-competing vendors in the community, claiming to own a trademark where you clearly did not. The application was not only pending, but your affirmations were specious.

I also have no objection to folks having illegal eBay auctions pulled.

I have done it -- I simply can't be bothered to any more.

My point, pure and simple, is that you, like others who have done cool things in this realm, seem to be obsessed with smashing down anyone whose view differs from your own, in complete ignorance of the fact that many of those people you seek to subjugate actually lie in your target market and/or purchase/work/discuss products in that realm.

You say things like "nobody involved cares anymore" (and then proceed to dump on people because they "weren't involved"), but the reality (as shown so clearly in this thread) is that you offend people whom you should be wanting to entice.

It seems that people see that you, like others before you, appear to be just another duplicitous ---tallywhacker--- who speaks poorly about the community out of one side of your mouth, then solicits input and cash from the other.

 

[Goz]

if you are going to post useless flames and name calling at least come up with something original and more derogatory than ---tallywhacker---.  Come one now, you can be more creative than that can't you?

I thought you preferred for us to just call you a ---tallywhacker---... you're sending more mixed signals than my wife.

[davidrfoley]

That's what I love about people like you Goz, instead of reading and comprehending what I said, you take it and twist it for dramatic effect.  Go back and read the thread.  I was replying to CheffoJeffo long dissertation and said it would have been a lot easier for him to just call me a ---tallywhacker--- instead of this long drawn out thread with his intentions to simply call me a ---tallywhacker---.  No mixed signals here.  If your intention is to call me names, it's a lot easier for people of the forum if you just call me a name and move on, instead of long winded rants with the goal of name calling.  Later in the thread I stated that I was unimpressed with ---tallywhacker--- and thought you could muster a better insult.

[NIVO]

regardless of what they WANT to call you, they cant type it here. It'd be better if no one goes that route. Civil discussions continue along, I love a good read.

[davidrfoley]

I wasn't suggesting profanity, but rather creativity.

[CheffoJeffo]

You know, maybe I have been wrong in all of this ... maybe David is just a businessman trying to find his way in the world and I am wrong. I do, however, have some reasons, beyond the MAME trademark issue, why I have formed my opinion of David.

I have never taken the time to ask to see if my impressions are, in fact, correct. It has been unfair of me to make assumptions with respect to those issues and I seek to rectify the situation.

So, let's start with what I had personally characterized as just another attempt to capitalize on somebody else's work.

Many years ago, a member here built a cabinet that he dubbed the MAMEFrame. He ran a website, linked from here IIRC, providing info and support.

Not too much later, a company trademarked the term MAMEFrame(tm) and registered the domain MAMEFrame.com.

http://www.quantum3d.com/old/company/trademarks.htm

The same company also released the Ultracade.

So, in the interest of fair play, I invite David to refute my prior characterization of these events.

EDIT: for typo

[davidrfoley]

There you go, see you assumed that I had anything to do with MAMEframe or GAMEframe at Quantum3D, and I did not.  They had done both of those products before acquiring my company and technology and hiring me on as VP of Engineering.  I wasn't involved in anyway with those products or trademarks.

I just did a search on the USPTO.GOV site and there was never any registration of the TM MAMEFRAME.  Quantum3D never trademarked that name, nor did they trademark GAMEFRAME.  You are correct that they list that TM on their IP website.  I never heard of MAMEFRAME, but I do know about the GAMEFRAME products.  There were created by Ross Smith, the founder and CEO of Quantum3D.  The products came out of his work at 3dfx.  While I did work briefly for Quantum3D 1998 - 2000, neither of those products were my doing.

I did a search for MAMEFRAME.COM and it was first created in 2001, a year after I had left Quantum3D to form the third iteration HyperWare focused on selling UltraCade.  Again, I had nothing to do with this domain name.

So CheffoJeffro, thanks for your explaination, and hopefully I've cleared up some misconceptions and incorrect associations with events that you don't agree with.

[CheffoJeffo]

So CheffoJeffro, thanks for your explaination, and hopefully I've cleared up some misconceptions and incorrect associations with events that you don't agree with.

As I have tried to make clear, my primary beef with you is the way that you treat those in the community -- always has been and, I suspect, always will be.

However, if we can clear up some of these coincidences in the meantime, then so much the better.