Foley's Unfotunately Back...

[ValamirCleaver]

Here we go again... 

Gottlieb ‘virtually’ returns to pinball through Nanotech Entertainment @ Arcade Heroes
Now classic Gottlieb tables are on their way back in virtual form due to an agreement that newcomer Nanotech Entertainment made with the existing Gottlieb Development LLC (personally I had no idea that they were still around). The pinball tables are being recreated for Nanotech’s Multipin video based pinball machine which states that it uses a special engine to recreate the feel of bumping and nudging a table to move the ball around accurately. According to the company website they have two flavors of the MultiPin machine, with the much more expensive MultiPin Gold table suggesting that it will be the one to support more classic tables (Gottlieb isn’t mentioned specifically but I doubt that they would go to all of this trouble to release these tables on a limited edition unit). Pictured is the standard unit, the Gold one has a different color layout.

Foley finally comes out of the woodwork again @ VPForums
First let me say hello to many of you that I have not talked to in a couple of years. I've taken a couple of years off after my differences with Global VR.

I know a lot about NanoTech and the associated questions and will offer my input and opinions. Since there are really several topics, I'll start separate threads for each of the topics and stick to the information about Gottlieb in this thread.

Seeing how "well" things went over with a Visual Pinball and VPinMAME powered UltraPin I wonder what makes them think a Future Pinball powered MultiPin will do any better? 

 One can read up on what Foley has to say at VPForums. If one chooses to do so I’d also suggest to check the archives to read his posts and the responses concerning UltraPin back from about 2-3 years ago. It should help put one’s opinion regarding the situation in better perspective.

[davidrfoley]

The failure of UltraPin by Global VR has nothing to do with the concept of the product and everything to do with execution.  It's like saying given that the Wright brothers initial flight was only a few seconds, why would anyone bother building an airplane.

Also, please be clear about NanoTech and MultiPin.  They are not my company or product.  I created the Pinball Wizard controller that NanoTech has exclusive rights too.  The MultiPin product is not mine, I merely offered my feedback on what I have seen so far.  I'm merely a bit player in this play.

[FrizzleFried]

...and to think I'm new enough in this scene to only have heard of the legendary douchiness of David F....and now I get to experience it!     

[davidrfoley]

I think it is awesome that someone who has no experience with me feels the need to post an insult about me.  Why talk about how I've created a new and innovative controller for PC users to play pinball, and discuss that on an arcade controls forum when you could just toss out insults.

I love forums!!!!

[SirPeale]

I have no experience with Hitler, but I know from history he's no one I'd want to deal with.

(yes, I mentioned Nazi's...this discussion is officially over).

[davidrfoley]

I created the controller for the PC to support a wide variety of Pinball products. It is a USB device, that is HID and requires no drivers. It appears to the PC as a Keyboard and Joystick. All buttons are soft coded in the firmware and remappable. The devices features a 3 axis motion sensor for "nudging" and also has built in keyboard mapping for the motion input so that it can be used in Pinball games that don't support analog input for nudging.

The unit is the width of an actual pinball machine and uses an authentic lockdown bar and plunger for realistic feel.

The plunger system uses an optical sensor to detect motion.

I'm also currently working on an XBOX version of the controller.

NanoTech Entertainment has acquired the exclusive rights to the technology and will be selling it through a variety of channels.

Feel free to post questions, suggestions and anything else with regards to this product and I'll be happy to answer them.

[ChadTower]

Who's taking odds that the first person who opens one up finds a Wiimote duct taped in there? 

[davidrfoley]

I'll take that bet.  Put your money where you mouth is and throw down!!!!!

I can assure you this is a ground up development.  There will even be an open source release of the firmware so that people that so choose, may customize it to their own needs.

[FrizzleFried]

I won't purchase a Slick Stick product based on the owners past actions.  Same applies here.

EDIT: Oh yeah...and good luck with your product.  Based on the past writings of this community,  I think you're going to need it.

[davidrfoley]

What past actions are you referring too?

[SirPeale]

What past actions are you referring too?

Do the words "Mame trademark" ring a bell?

[davidrfoley]

Does the phrase, do your homework ring a bell? 

If you actually read the replies from Aaron Giles, I tried several times to contact the MAME team for help in putting a stop to people that were building and selling MAME based cabinets with no permission and no licenses for the games.  After no response I filed the trademark in an effort to stop the unfair and illegal competition.  I also transferred the trademark over to the team on my own accord, even though legally I could have kept it.  If my effort was to steal the mark, I would have succeeded, and still owned it to this day. However, that wasn't my goal or attempt.  Aaron confirmed this and my actions led to the MAME team cleaning up the commercial use of MAME, and it was good for the team and the community. 

In order to understand this, you would have to educate yourself, and most people can't be bothered, instead they want to just run around and make uneducated flames about how evil I am.  If you are too lazy to bother to understand the facts about something, so be it. 

[SirPeale]

I know the story.  You can say whatever you want, you overstepped your bounds.  And forevermore your name is synonymous with several naughty words that I won't repeat here.

[davidrfoley]

Here you go



This is the controller inside (hey, where is my money, it's not a wiimote)

[RayB]

Valamir: 30,000 units sold is not a failure. It's more units sold than Stern Pinball sells in a year. * Retracted - I misread a post here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=81666.msg852391#msg852391

David,
You would gain more traction in these forums if you just said "I made a mistake. It was wrong to try to steal the MAME trademark." Your tactics may have been necessary in your view for business purposes, but you're talking to "consumer" level people here. Any defense that pushed the boundaries for business purposes is still going to appear underhanded, so no one will ever sympathize with your defense.

[davidrfoley]

I'm not going to make up some false statement about how I tried to steal the MAME trademark when that simply isn't the case.

I appreciate your suggestion, however I could hand out free crisp $20 bills and the haters here wouldn't take it because they are so closed minded that they can't possibly admit that maybe THEY made a mistake in persecuting me without knowing any of the facts.

Like I have said before, the MAME topic is a very dead horse, and continuing to beat on it is a waste of time.

I'm not going away.  I'm here to make positive discussion about current products.  If people can't get beyond that, then they shouldn't participate in the discussion.  This isn't a flaming forum, it's a forum to discuss arcade controls.  I suggest those that despise me may do so, and since they will never buy or use anything that I am associated with should excuse themselves from the discussion and allow those that actually have something to contribute get on with it.

[ValamirCleaver]

Valamir: 30,000 units sold is not a failure. It's more units sold than Stern Pinball sells in a year.

I didn't claim units 30,000, you did...

Seeing how "well" things went over with a Visual Pinball and VPinMAME powered UltraPin I wonder what makes them think a Future Pinball powered MultiPin will do any better? 

Do you happen to be privy to Ultrapin sales figures or something?  How can you know it wasn't profitable? In the arcade business, selling just a few thousand machines can be enough to cover your bottom line.

According to David Foley himself, they sold 30,000 Ultrapins. That's more units than Stern Pinball
sells in a year.

It's one thing to dislike a guy, but to let that cloud your judgement ...

Let's see what Foley himself personally posted yesterday...

Originally posted by davidrfoley @ VPForums
If they swapped out for your version and didn't license it from you, then I would contact Global VR and demand your royalties. Since the product is dead, there isn't much to gain, but they did ship about 150 to 200 machines, so it would be worth something.

150 to 200 machines is a far cry from 30,000... 

[ChadTower]

This is the controller inside (hey, where is my money, it's not a wiimote)

My statement was "first person who opens one up".  Send one out to one of us and we'll do just that.   

[shardian]

Just upload your pictures here. Obviously that company has budget issues if their bandwidth can't manage a 100k picture or 2.

[NIVO]

ill take one for a hardware review foley. Send one my way...........free publicity is good no?

[FrizzleFried]

How hard would it be to wire a couple buttons up one on each end of a box...include 2 weighted leaf switches (for example,  like a slam switch) on each side...one with a short throw that activates a "nudge" and one with a longer throw that activates "tilt"...even add some to the front and back of the box if you desire wired the same way...hook it all up to an ipac or keywiz and you're good to go... not hard.

[missioncontrol]

:popcorn

[davidrfoley]

I never claimed 30,000 UltraPins were sold, I claimed 30,000 multi-game arcade machines.  UltraCade never sold UltraPin, it was released after Global VR took over.

[ChadTower]

How hard would it be to wire a couple buttons up one on each end of a box...include 2 weighted leaf switches (for example,  like a slam switch) on each side...one with a short throw that activates a "nudge" and one with a longer throw that activates "tilt"...even add some to the front and back of the box if you desire wired the same way...hook it all up to an ipac or keywiz and you're good to go... not hard.

A lot of patents can be described as "how hard would it be to..." but the reason they have a patent is because they were the first to do it and document it.  Sometimes people do things a certain way just so they can be the first and get the patent.  Foley did mention a 3 axis "motion sensor", which could be any number of things from weighted leafs to bobs to accelerometers.

[davidrfoley]

we use a Memsic chip on an I2C bus for motion and a Cypress PSoC processor to run the board.

[Santoro]

just ... wow.

[ChadTower]

we use a Memsic chip on an I2C bus for motion and a Cypress PSoC processor to run the board.

MXR9150 or MXR9500?  Just curious.  I was just poking around some accelerometer specs last month.

[markrvp]

David:

Does GlobalVR now own the rights to the front end that was used in Arcade Legends?  I always liked that front end and thought it would be cool to be able to purchase it for a home MAME cabinet.

[davidrfoley]

MXC62020J

[davidrfoley]

Check out UltraStyle, its a freeware UI for MAME that was made after the UltraCade UI design.

[ChadTower]

MXC62020J

That's only a two axis accelerometer.

[davidrfoley]

You are correct, we have put two Accelerometers on the PCB, and have an optional 2nd I2C bus connection to allow for the connection of separate orientation of the off board accelerometer.  This allows for full 3D motion tracking.  The boards supports both the MEMSIC part and the Analog ADXL322JCP-ND on the main PCB, and a second MEMSIC part on the offboard I2C bus.

[ChadTower]

Elaborate.  Why so complex for simple nudge functionality?

[davidrfoley]

The design was done so that for low cost applications you could just use a single chip.  For more accuracy you could simply add a chip.  We designed it around the idea that you may want full rotational values for all axis on higher end implementations, and just simple nudging in lower end.  The design is scalable, and the extra fiberglass on the PCB is almost no cost.

[ChadTower]

Oh I read that desc as two on board and one optional off.  I couldn't figure out why you would put in three of them.

[davidrfoley]

Two of them are I2C and one is analog.  We decided to go with the I2C in this case, as it performs well enough for our use, but have the analog unit wired in for possible future use.

[ChadTower]

So I did read it right... it is three and it is overengineered for a pinball CP.  Gotcha.

[markrvp]

Check out UltraStyle, its a freeware UI for MAME that was made after the UltraCade UI design.

It's a dead project.  I think the last version of MAME it worked with was .95 or so.

[davidrfoley]

from the UltraStyle website....

1.14.08 - some news has come about today. I got an email from a great guy from switzerland, Stefan. He has taken it upon himself to right the wrongs in ultraconfig and myrominfo. He snagged the source from sourceforge and was able to get the parser running for MAME v.122. I am putting his file (called ultraconfig3Hotfix) in the  download section. Stefan deserves all the credit for breathing new life into ultrastyle. I have been throwing around the Idea of a version of ultrastyle using silverlight on winforms. I think it may do a good job animating. Conceptually an itunes album cover style fe. I don't know if there's already something out there like it. For now I thank Stefan for giving new cabbies the ability to look at ultrastyle, I know it's been a while since it worked with MAME.
*NOTE stefan's changes require .NET Framework 2.0

[Cakemeister]

David, I don't think the binary was ever updated, but I could be wrong.

However, the source to Ultrastyle is now available. I got MAME version 0.98 to work with it. If I knew how to compile it (it is written in BlitzMax or some language like that) it would not be difficult to get it to work with higher versions of MAME.

Ultrastyle is one of my favorite front ends.

[ChadTower]

What about it "doesn't work with" current versions of MAME?  Isn't it just an interface layer making cmdline calls to the mame executables?

[Cakemeister]

It has to do with the XML files that MAME puts out with its -listxml option. The XML changes every few versions, and it broke Ultrastyle's parser back in the late 0.9xs.

[ChadTower]

It has to do with the XML files that MAME puts out with its -listxml option. The XML changes every few versions, and it broke Ultrastyle's parser back in the late 0.9xs.

Ah.  That's not too hard a fix, you're right.  I assume they wouldn't make major changes to the xml structure.  Most of the time things like that are just additions that have to be accounted for on the parser end of the plugin.  Depending on how good the Blitzmax language is at text extraction/reporting that could be a little as an hour's work.  If it does it more like C it will take longer but probably still a one night job.

[NIVO]

Check out UltraStyle, its a freeware UI for MAME that was made after the UltraCade UI design.

It's a dead project.  I think the last version of MAME it worked with was .95 or so.

Are we gonna blame David for THAT, too?

Its dead Jim. Live long and prosper.....or something.

[Cakemeister]

Sure, you can do that. For someone like myself with experience with the XML files but not with the Blitz code, that would be easier. Since the Ultrastyle code breaks up the list generation process into several steps, you could substitute your hacked XML for the 0.126 xml and just skip to the second step.

[RayB]

OK OK people I humbly retract my post. David referred to "Ultraflop" machines which I interpreted as Ultrapin. Sorry for the confusion.

Source: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=81666.msg852391#msg852391

 

[Ken Layton]

I am of the age to have played REAL Gottlieb pinball machines not a video recreation or computer simulation. The only way to have the look, feel, and fun of playing a real pinball machine is to play a real pinball machine.

Currently I am restoring a 1964 Gottlieb Ship Mates 4 player pinball.

[danny_galaga]

Check out UltraStyle, its a freeware UI for MAME that was made after the UltraCade UI design.

It's a dead project.  I think the last version of MAME it worked with was .95 or so.

im still on the ultrastyle mailing list, and indeed there was an announcement not that long ago that someone was working on it again. i think for some people it wont matter if it only works up to version 95 or whatever. im happen with v78 for instance...

[CheffoJeffo]

Does the phrase, do your homework ring a bell? 

If you actually read the replies from Aaron Giles, I tried several times to contact the MAME team for help in putting a stop to people that were building and selling MAME based cabinets with no permission and no licenses for the games.  After no response I filed the trademark in an effort to stop the unfair and illegal competition.  I also transferred the trademark over to the team on my own accord, even though legally I could have kept it.  If my effort was to steal the mark, I would have succeeded, and still owned it to this day. However, that wasn't my goal or attempt.  Aaron confirmed this and my actions led to the MAME team cleaning up the commercial use of MAME, and it was good for the team and the community. 

In order to understand this, you would have to educate yourself, and most people can't be bothered, instead they want to just run around and make uneducated flames about how evil I am.  If you are too lazy to bother to understand the facts about something, so be it. 

Now, I think we can safely say that this isn't an entirely accurate representation ... because I looked into it after publicly questioning people who had auctions pulled due to your reports on eBay (after I read your spiel and thought you were being totally honest).

As I recall, you had auctions pulled as if you owned the trademark when you didn't. Further, you had auctions pulled where the sellers were legitimate, had legitimate licenses (or at least permissions) for both MAME and the ROMS they were selling.

I'm not sure how you can conclude that it was good for the community -- to my, admittedly casual, monitoring, the sales of MAME cabs has not decreased, but it has spread from eBay to local ads and has actually increased (at least in my area).

As an aside, you would do better if you jsut stopped insulting everybody in the community who disagrees with your actions, past and present -- *you* are the one with the reputation problem. I speak here not just of the emulation crowd, but of the collector crowd, the pinball simulation crowd and even the ops that I spend time with say you have a taint on your name (even those who used to stock Ultracades).

I have not seen a characterization in this thread made by someone other than you that is inaccurate. You had absolutely no legitimate claim to a trademark for MAME and yet made application for it. Whatever your reasons were (and I don't have a problem with most of what you claim as your reasons), the "theft" characterization is more accurate that the representations that you made in your application and you have no right to dismiss those who say so.

I have no doubt that you will tell me how highly you are regarded amongst the upper echelons of the amusement industry, but when the folks on the ground don't want to buy the stuff that you are involved with, I don't see how your continued insults can help your cause.

To put it in perspective, your continued ragings make you sound a whole lot like Christian Stango.

He also did cool stuff and was a total ---tallywhacker---.

 

[davidrfoley]

As I said, I'm not going to continue to argue the facts.  No one was pulled from eBay that had a legitimate license.  I know, I had letters from companies like Capcom and Midway authorizing me to police eBay.

here are a couple of examples:



and



Since you were not someone that was involved in any of it, you have no grounds to try and state the facts, all you are doing is perpetuating stories instead of actually being involved.  You aren't Aaron, and you don't speak for him.  Aaron confirmed that I had attempted to get them to do something and they didn't and he and I worked together to put in the proper protections. 

[CheffoJeffo]

Since you were not someone that was involved in any of it, you have no grounds to try and state the facts, all you are doing is perpetuating stories instead of actually being involved.  You aren't Aaron, and you don't speak for him.  Aaron confirmed that I had attempted to get them to do something and they didn't and he and I worked together to put in the proper protections. 

No, I am CheffoJeffo and I speak for myself.

*I* have never pretended otherwise. 

I have nothing to do with MAMEDev and don't even have a cabinet running MAME.

I would think, that as a collector who buys from distributors who used to sell stuff that you made, that I actually lie in your target market.

But, as you are wont to do, you simply dismiss my opinion and further convince me that I can't possibly support you or anything that you are involved with.  Even when you come up with cool stuff, you insist on being a complete ---tallywhacker---. 

This isn't the first time that you have come up with cool stuff and then convinced me that my pin and vid dollars are better spent elsewhere.

No one was pulled from eBay that had a legitimate license.  I know, I had letters from companies like Capcom and Midway authorizing me to police eBay.

Really ?

David Foley successfully lobbied Ebay to shutdown my Cocktail arcade kit auctions last night. He said I was using illegally using MAME as a keyword.

DreamArcades was selling only properly licensed ROMS with his kits and you had him shut down because he used MAME as a keyword.

What do companies like Capcom and Midway have to do with authorizing you for that ?

And, despite your claim that you were only going after the cabinet sellers who were impinging on your legitimate ROM licenses, we saw stuff like this (and, yes I know about the need to defend trademarks - I own a few myself ... but the situation isn't quite the same, mine were born of my work):

My email correspondence with Mr David Foley:

Message #1:

Comments: Your use of the MAME name and MAME logo is a violation of our registered trademark (USPTO Reg # 76627578).  Rather than proceed with legal action against you and your company, and getting lawyers involved, we would like to resolve this directly.  Please contact me by Wednsday to discuss.  David R. Foley, CEO UltraCade Technologies.

My reply to message #1:

I remember looking up the Mame logo and it had a "dead" indicator
meaning it wasn't registered.  I just print arcade marquees for enthusiasts'
cabinets.  What information do you need from me, or what are you
requesting?

Regards,
Brent Bilis


Message #2:

It's not dead, and we own it.  If you would like to pay us a royalty on the
graphics that you print, then we could probably come to some compromise.

My reply to message #2:

What type of fee structure are you considering?

Regards,
Brent Bilis


Message #3:

What do you sell them for, what is your cost of goods?

My reply to message #3:

I see that your status on the Mame logo as a trademark is only pending, and has not actually been granted.  The USPTO Reg # you posted below clearly states that your new application is pending - how could you state that you own it?  The US Patent and Trademark Office must not condone someone stating that they own a trademark when it is in this status.  It can be said with certainty that ultracade is not the proprietor of the Mame logo.  I'm certain that you're familiar with Nicola Salmoria.  I don't think it would be wise to discuss royalties until you have actually been granted the trademark, wouldn't you agree?   I will have to contact the attorney assigned to this trademark showing details of the Mame logo existing before ultracade along with your claim of ownership before considering any sort of royalty fees.

Regards,
Brent Bilis

WOW.... go away for a weekend with no Internet access and look what happens.   

Mr Folly also is trying to extort money from me:

"Please contact me immeadiately to discuss your unlicensed use of our registrered trademarks. I would much rather come to a licensing agreement than to shut you down, but we must discuss immeadiately or we will have to pursue legal matters."

I replied to him before I read these messages.

"Hey David, I just got back from a short vacation with no email / internet.
I have permission from Kelsey over at Oscar controls to use his logo.  On artwork there is an implied copyright from the artist and as long as he gives permission or is paid for the right to use it then it can be used.

Your threat above does come in direct confliction from what you stated on your website about "no desire to use the M.A.M.E name or logos, we simply wish to find ways to prevent illegal distribution of classic arcade games"  It seems like you also wish to profit from this by getting money out of sites like mine...

Looking forward to your response"

Scott Prior
www.mamemarquees.com

Original threads:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=32730.0

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=32448.0

Would you like to play a game ?

I would have been totally satisfied with something along the lines of "My intentions were good, but stuff didn't quite work out that way. I'm sorry for the inconvenience and hope that we can all work together to improve things for the community." I really wanted you to succeed with your iROMS and gun interface. Really, truly wanted you to succeed.

But, at the end of the day, you are who you are, and things unfolded, not surprisingly, as they did.

 

[davidrfoley]

DreamArcades was selling unlicensed games.  They had bundles of ROMs that they did not license.  They used character graphics on their cabinets that were not licensed.

The MAME issue was resolved years ago.  If you feel that bringing it up all over again is useful and the moderators feel it is productive and of value, then we'll keep beating the topic over and over, however, none of the people actually involved care to keep going over it.

[CheffoJeffo]

If you feel that bringing it up all over again is useful and the moderators feel it is productive and of value, then we'll keep beating the topic over and over, however, none of the people actually involved care to keep going over it.

Actually, my intent was just to point out what a ---tallywhacker--- you are ...

[davidrfoley]

Well if you must look in the mirror, so be it  In our your words, the sum total of what you have to contribute to this thread is to call me a ---tallywhacker---.  Mission accomplished.  It would have been much easier to just say I think you are ---tallywhacker---.

You've made your statement.  Now, how about shutting your useless mouth unless you can actually contribute to this forum and discussion that has value to the members.

[Hoopz]

I think the difference is that CheffoJeffo isn't here trying to push his product and turning people off by what he is saying, while you are (and your grammar is terrible at times).  Christian did this quite a bit and look how things turned out for him.

Right or wrong, your ability to communicate effectively to potential customers is extremely lacking.

[davidrfoley]

I didn't start this thread, and I'm not here pushing my products, I've simply been answering questions.  The only threads that I have started were about new products that I am developing, and asking for input as to the desired feature set.

[FrizzleFried]

He also used strong-arm tactics that did nothing for him except gain him a "label" and eventually get him canned...

... as the topic title of this thread states UNFORTUNATELY this piece of work is "back".  I have a sneaky suspicion we'd all be better off if he simply crawled back under the rock he's decided to crawl out of.

Mr. Foley,  you may want to take my advice... keep to the "back ground" of your projects.  You'd sell many many more units if people DIDN'T know you were involved... you've been forever labeled a snake-in-the-grass and the vast majority of folks here will never trust you.  Ever.

[davidrfoley]

Sticks and Stones.

I'm not going away.

[FrizzleFried]

Sticks and Stones.

I'm not going away.

And you will be called on any future BS I am sure.  Enjoy your stay.

[davidrfoley]

I love forums, and will enjoy my stay for sure!

[pinballwizard79]

No bashing here, I have not been a forum guy for long enough to even know my own reputation.

But I wanted to say that I don't think this place (BYOAC) is the target demographic for such an item.

I mean, how many of us have an "Arcade Legends" or "Global Arcade" in our basement? Certainly there are a few, but I bet that's less than 1% of our group.

With VP free to download, tables abundant, game roms hosted online & LCD panels dropping in price daily it seems like a bunch of DIY guys like us would just make one for like, oh I dunno -$1,500.

Then we could avoid dependency on a 3rd party for tables, too bad we cant do that with foreign oil.

So, yeah.....um I want to build a solar car & a Multi Pin.

Anyway, good luck & if its launched with a TON of really good tables then I may just buy one to avoid the endless tweaking required to make it happen.






 

[davidrfoley]

PinWiz, I've never tried to sell products in this forum, nor would I.  You are absolutely right that members of this forum are not the target audience for machines such as the UltraCade machine, and never were.  I never assumed anyone in a forum such as this would want to buy anything other than components.  This forum is based on build your own.  I've only ever responded to threads about my products, never started them. 

[DrewKaree]

PinWiz, I've never tried to sell products in this forum, nor would I.  You are absolutely right that members of this forum are not the target audience for machines such as the UltraCade machine, and never were.  I never assumed anyone in a forum such as this would want to buy anything other than components.  This forum is based on build your own.  I've only ever responded to threads about my products, never started them. 

So basically, you're here for the free advice on what people would like to see in the products you're developing for sale to a larger or more upscale demographic?  Is that close, or can you characterize your threads more accurately?

[davidrfoley]

No, I'm here in this thread to respond to a thread about me.

I've started other threads to look for input for products that don't exist that people in this forum may want.  I've been a supporter of classic game technology years before MAME even existed, selling PC based adapters since the mid 90's.  If there is a big enough need for a product or feature I'll develop one and offer it for sale, either directly or though other channels.  In the past I have licensed many of my products to companies such as Happ Controls.

The larger scale commercial products that I developed for an audience outside of this forum now belong to someone else, and I'm no longer involved with them.

[Goz]

Well if you must look in the mirror, so be it  In our your words, the sum total of what you have to contribute to this thread is to call me a ---tallywhacker---.  Mission accomplished.  It would have been much easier to just say I think you are ---tallywhacker---.

I think you are a ---tallywhacker---....

[davidrfoley]

Thanks Goz, that was a useful and informative post.

[Goz]

Thanks Goz, that was a useful and informative post.

You did say you preferred it. 

[DrewKaree]

I've started other threads to look for input for products that don't exist that people in this forum may want.

But if the people in this forum are your self-admitted non-target audience, what difference would it then make what we/they thought of your product?

I'm trying to understand why you've come back.  Really I am.

You've said the BYOAC community are "sponges" and "pirates", and have stated as much that we aren't even your target audience.  Given your past statements of this community, your current statements about us not being of particular interest (the target audience thing), and your general tone and attitude in response to the issues brought up about - again, YOUR statements - why do you believe there is honestly anything that such a group of troglodytes has to offer you other than free brainstorming for ideas you've missed or hadn't considered?

You're coming to the people you shat on in order to create better products for....the people.....who aren't.....your....target, um... audience.



Apparently you really DO see this community as THAT stupid that they'd want to help or share ideas with someone such as yourself.  Either that, or you're so self-absorbed that you can't help but respond wherever your name pops up, and your natural "personality" just bubbles up to the top, kinda like a poo stew.

[davidrfoley]

But if the people in this forum are your self-admitted non-target audience, what difference would it then make what we/they thought of your product?

I don't care if people don't like my product, but I do care when my products are misrepresented.

I'm trying to understand why you've come back.  Really I am.

As I have previously stated.  I was notified of a new thread where I was being bashed and false statements about me and products that I am involved in were being made.  Since people take forums as gospel and factual, I need to make sure my side of the story is heard, otherwise the haters would just spew misinformation as fact.

You've said the BYOAC community are "sponges" and "pirates"

This is the type of nonsense and flat out misinformation that I have to combat.  Show me a single quote where I called anyone a sponge or a pirate.  It doesn't exist, and I never said that.  To quote me as saying that is pure fiction.

I also don't lump everyone in this forum into the hater group, and there are many that do want to actually have useful and productive discussions about topics that matter to this forum.  Just because you are so clouded and/or jaded that you can't be bothered to talk about useful things, doesn't mean others don't find this forum useful and wish to discuss topics of interest.

I've never put down this community, only individuals who seem to glorify misrepresentations, such as you have done in your posting just now for dramatic effect.

[CheffoJeffo]

But I wanted to say that I don't think this place (BYOAC) is the target demographic for such an item.

I decided to take the day away from the thread to see if I picked up any additional perspective and I did.

I noticed that the "haters", as Mr. Foley calls us, are not a bunch of MAME fanboys, but rather some of the more seasoned folks. They are folks who have 3,4,5,6,12,18 or 24 pins and vids, but just don't like the way that Mr. Foley has done business. I note that some of them are hobbyist/collectors and that some of them are folks who work/have worked in the industry.

I also find it interesting that the popular 2005 rage campaign against Mr. Foley (during which I commended him for posting here about his side of the story) was abandoned by the more casual MAMErs and that the people who object to him (myself included) actually are in the target demographic for the end product.

I dunno, guys, he legitimized emulation and got it mainstream with the UltraCade cabs.

When you said that, I thought about another guy, who also brought emulation to the mainstream.

Clay Cowgill.

And Clay has done a ton of stuff that actually has been good for the community.

And he is a nice guy.

And he never went after vendors in the community.

And I will support him wherever I get the chance.

 

[CheffoJeffo]

Now, how about shutting your useless mouth unless you can actually contribute to this forum and discussion that has value to the members.

Let's do what I have always done and let the members decide whose posts have value.

You ain't saint.

I'll stand by what I post, you stand by what you post and we'll see who is the bigger ---tallywhacker---.

[davidrfoley]

if you are going to post useless flames and name calling at least come up with something original and more derogatory than ---tallywhacker---.  Come one now, you can be more creative than that can't you?

[CheffoJeffo]

I thought we should stay on topic .... 





You really don't seem to either care about or grasp the gist of what I started out saying. I completely understood what you said you were trying to accomplish with your MAME trademark application. I didn't think that you were horribly out of line, based on your stated intentions and goals. However, you deviated from stated goals and went after non-competing vendors in the community, claiming to own a trademark where you clearly did not. The application was not only pending, but your affirmations were specious.

I also have no objection to folks having illegal eBay auctions pulled.

I have done it -- I simply can't be bothered to any more.

My point, pure and simple, is that you, like others who have done cool things in this realm, seem to be obsessed with smashing down anyone whose view differs from your own, in complete ignorance of the fact that many of those people you seek to subjugate actually lie in your target market and/or purchase/work/discuss products in that realm.

You say things like "nobody involved cares anymore" (and then proceed to dump on people because they "weren't involved"), but the reality (as shown so clearly in this thread) is that you offend people whom you should be wanting to entice.

It seems that people see that you, like others before you, appear to be just another duplicitous ---tallywhacker--- who speaks poorly about the community out of one side of your mouth, then solicits input and cash from the other.

 

[Goz]

if you are going to post useless flames and name calling at least come up with something original and more derogatory than ---tallywhacker---.  Come one now, you can be more creative than that can't you?

I thought you preferred for us to just call you a ---tallywhacker---... you're sending more mixed signals than my wife.

[davidrfoley]

That's what I love about people like you Goz, instead of reading and comprehending what I said, you take it and twist it for dramatic effect.  Go back and read the thread.  I was replying to CheffoJeffo long dissertation and said it would have been a lot easier for him to just call me a ---tallywhacker--- instead of this long drawn out thread with his intentions to simply call me a ---tallywhacker---.  No mixed signals here.  If your intention is to call me names, it's a lot easier for people of the forum if you just call me a name and move on, instead of long winded rants with the goal of name calling.  Later in the thread I stated that I was unimpressed with ---tallywhacker--- and thought you could muster a better insult.

[NIVO]

regardless of what they WANT to call you, they cant type it here. It'd be better if no one goes that route. Civil discussions continue along, I love a good read.

[davidrfoley]

I wasn't suggesting profanity, but rather creativity.

[CheffoJeffo]

You know, maybe I have been wrong in all of this ... maybe David is just a businessman trying to find his way in the world and I am wrong. I do, however, have some reasons, beyond the MAME trademark issue, why I have formed my opinion of David.

I have never taken the time to ask to see if my impressions are, in fact, correct. It has been unfair of me to make assumptions with respect to those issues and I seek to rectify the situation.

So, let's start with what I had personally characterized as just another attempt to capitalize on somebody else's work.

Many years ago, a member here built a cabinet that he dubbed the MAMEFrame. He ran a website, linked from here IIRC, providing info and support.

Not too much later, a company trademarked the term MAMEFrame(tm) and registered the domain MAMEFrame.com.

http://www.quantum3d.com/old/company/trademarks.htm

The same company also released the Ultracade.

So, in the interest of fair play, I invite David to refute my prior characterization of these events.

EDIT: for typo

[davidrfoley]

There you go, see you assumed that I had anything to do with MAMEframe or GAMEframe at Quantum3D, and I did not.  They had done both of those products before acquiring my company and technology and hiring me on as VP of Engineering.  I wasn't involved in anyway with those products or trademarks.

I just did a search on the USPTO.GOV site and there was never any registration of the TM MAMEFRAME.  Quantum3D never trademarked that name, nor did they trademark GAMEFRAME.  You are correct that they list that TM on their IP website.  I never heard of MAMEFRAME, but I do know about the GAMEFRAME products.  There were created by Ross Smith, the founder and CEO of Quantum3D.  The products came out of his work at 3dfx.  While I did work briefly for Quantum3D 1998 - 2000, neither of those products were my doing.

I did a search for MAMEFRAME.COM and it was first created in 2001, a year after I had left Quantum3D to form the third iteration HyperWare focused on selling UltraCade.  Again, I had nothing to do with this domain name.

So CheffoJeffro, thanks for your explaination, and hopefully I've cleared up some misconceptions and incorrect associations with events that you don't agree with.

[CheffoJeffo]

So CheffoJeffro, thanks for your explaination, and hopefully I've cleared up some misconceptions and incorrect associations with events that you don't agree with.

As I have tried to make clear, my primary beef with you is the way that you treat those in the community -- always has been and, I suspect, always will be.

However, if we can clear up some of these coincidences in the meantime, then so much the better.

[Goz]

* Goz checks.... yep he's still a ---tallywhacker---

[saint]

RE: This thread -- What Nivo said. Because of past history and the relative civility (despite the occasional euphemism), I haven't moderated this thread yet. I appreciate everyone keeping it civil while various points of view are expressed.

--- saint "Chief Tallywhacker"

[davidrfoley]

That's more like it Goz   No we are getting somewhere.   

[SithMaster]

Now, how about shutting your useless mouth unless you can actually contribute to this forum and discussion that has value to the members.

Let's do what I have always done and let the members decide whose posts have value.

You ain't saint.

I'll stand by what I post, you stand by what you post and we'll see who is the bigger ---tallywhacker---.

I think Cheffo' posts are better simply because they are more humorous.  To see what the entire forum thinks we are going to need Texasmame to start a poll.

[Xiaou2]

 Im no fan of what had been done in the past... however,  here is a cool
Pinball device that interests me...

 Firstly,  you say you use optics to read the plunger?   Is it simply on/off,
or is it true analog?  Meaning.. can I release the plunger from 6/8 ths  back and
get 6/8 th  power?

 Next, does the latest Visual pinball support the features?
Planning on making that happen soon?

 Does Future Pinball support them too?
Planning on?

 What is the cost of the device?


 Can force feedback be added?  =  Power supply + 3 real pinball coils.
(One coil per each virtual flipper, and one coil for any other kicker coil)


 Realistically, I do not believe Virtual pinball will do very well unless it has
both coil feedback and has a stereoscopic 3d display with excellent
response time. 

 
 I think others should get over the past.   Mr. Foley has the power to
bring great devices to the Byoac scene that other players are not
capable of due to high costs, inexperience, lack of contacts..etc.

 Nobody here is perfect, and surely many here have done something in
their life that would seem to be unforgivable.  Yet, people have forgiven
us, and we have become better people.

 Weather or not David is a nice guy is really irrelevant however.   He is
on a better course of action,  and can provide us with things we desire.

 He has shown that he is willing to be helpful,  and has contributed to
the progress of Visual Pinball - giving away the source code improvements
for free.

 Just get over it already.

[davidrfoley]

The Pinball Wizard has a keyboard mapping function so that motion is translated into keypresses for those engines that don't support analog input for nudging.  We are working with engine authors to have built in analog support.

The MSRP of the device is $299, however, like all products there will be discount outlets.

Force Feedback is not built into the first product.  I am working with Immersion Corporation using thier FF technology to build a "pro" version that includes forces.  Rather than a specific coil for specific function, we are working on a set of forces for every device in a pinball machine so that you'll have a very realistic feedback experience.

The plunger is analog.  The optical sensor is housed at the end of a tube over the plunger.  As you move the plunger in or out, the reflection inside the tube changes and the sensor notes the changes at translates that too movement.

[ChadTower]

However, you deviated from stated goals and went after non-competing vendors in the community, claiming to own a trademark where you clearly did not. The application was not only pending, but your affirmations were specious.

I will preface this by saying I really don't care what he has done in the past - I'm not a MAME user nor a target for his products.  I don't have much at stake on either end of this argument.

It should, however, be noted that trademarks must be defended.  A trademark that is violated, but not defended, is considered abandoned.  It should also be noted that trademarks within a small marketspace, and marketspace here is a bit ambiguous between meaning physically or commercially, does not necessarily have to have completed registration and approval in order to be defensible.  There is a valid legal point of view that shutting down auctions like that and going after vendors may actually have been necessary in order to win approval of the trademark.

Now, going after the trademark itself with no logical claim to it... that all depends on whether or not you buy into the "I did what I had to do to protect my own business from illegal competitors".

[FrizzleFried]

...thank you Johnny Cochran.

[Level42]

 

[Xiaou2]

  $300 is pretty steep for a  Virtual pinball interface.   It may be expected..
being that its developed for the industry as always..  but I believe
most here would be looking for something in the  $100 range... with
expansion such as force feedback bought at a later time at additional cost.

 I think you could do better by getting several quality pins simulated to
perfection,  packaging it up into a compilation cd,  and including the
controller as an   All in one package  for around  $100  at retail stores,
all over the world.

 Youd need great titles like  Bk2k,  Theatre of Magic,  Indiana Jones
(williams), Medievil Madness, Haunted House, Scared Stiff, 
Tales of the Arabian Knights, Creature From the Black Lagoon, Whitewater,
Fire!, Monster Bash..etc.   

 It may cost more to go that route..  But Id bet the returns would be so
much greater that way.

 As said... I, and Im sure many others would love a kit that actually works
with the current pin emus...  but I think the price is just to much to
justify the return value.

[Level42]

Wait a minute ? Is that Xiaou2, who despises Sterns' new pinballs ?

Would you actually CONSIDER a device so NOT getting close to the real thing ?? Now I've seen it all !


Even if I would only have the space for one pin (which actually is about the case) I would ALWAYS prefer one REAL pin over any emulation stuff, no matter how fancy.

[Level42]

But I wanted to say that I don't think this place (BYOAC) is the target demographic for such an item.

I decided to take the day away from the thread to see if I picked up any additional perspective and I did.

I noticed that the "haters", as Mr. Foley calls us, are not a bunch of MAME fanboys, but rather some of the more seasoned folks. They are folks who have 3,4,5,6,12,18 or 24 pins and vids, but just don't like the way that Mr. Foley has done business. I note that some of them are hobbyist/collectors and that some of them are folks who work/have worked in the industry.

I also find it interesting that the popular 2005 rage campaign against Mr. Foley (during which I commended him for posting here about his side of the story) was abandoned by the more casual MAMErs and that the people who object to him (myself included) actually are in the target demographic for the end product.

I dunno, guys, he legitimized emulation and got it mainstream with the UltraCade cabs.

When you said that, I thought about another guy, who also brought emulation to the mainstream.

Clay Cowgill.

And Clay has done a ton of stuff that actually has been good for the community.

And he is a nice guy.

And he never went after vendors in the community.

And I will support him wherever I get the chance.

 

Actually, Clay is also "discussed" on the KLOV forum. He re-surfaced and says he's working on a new SW/ESB kit that will include a number of interesting new stuff.

I am NOT saying Clay is "bad" or something like that, I haven't ever dealt with him, I am just reporting something I've read on the KLOV forum , PLEASE let this be clear. I'd love to see that SW/ESB kit materialize.

It's strange, people who come up with really interesting stuff get debated at any point in time (Mark Spaeth is another "victim". I prefer to keep my options open.....

[saint]

Clay Cowgill is one of the prophets of arcade gaming.

[ark_ader]

I have never seen any piracy or distribution of copyrighted works, which have benefitted so many copyright owners as arcade roms have.

Namco has made money on classic arcade games for several console platforms, as have Capcom and Midway.  I bet the total value is astronomical.

Without MAME many of these games would just die away, but I can understand Mr Foley's idea of taking the MAME name for his own purposes with Ultracade - as the marketed system could have been just as easily named Multiple Arcade Machine Entertainment.

The closure of Ebay sites was a good.  Nobody should be allowed to profit from roms or copyrighted works.  Burning companies being the [sic] exception to the rule.

The fact that Mr Foley is entering this forum, even though his "actions" were unfavourable to the masses on this site, is quite a redeeming quality. 

The thousands of people out there who own complete romsets, should not have them,  unless they have paid for them.  Unfortunately the majority of these roms are considered abandonware, yet still hold some value.  What value except for Jakks and a couple of others.

If Mr Foley were to contact these said offended companies to offer a package to those who own these romsets, to make their collection legitimate like STAR ROMS tried to, would the community think differently?  How many out there would embrace such a concept?  It had to be realistic.

Apparently video gaming is still making more money, and is looking even stronger through this recession.  To a businessman trying to make money from legitimate products, this side of classic gaming is a losing battle.  I can understand the pinball direction.

I'm no fan of Mr Foley or his previous actions to the community, but his actions are not completely without merit.  Some of the products he is inventing is interesting. This pinball gizmo has got my attention.

I have read this thread from the start, and Jeffo is definitely being accurate.  I think Mr Foley will have to ride this bumpy episode out, and try to be more positive and less argumentative with established members of this board.

As I am quite sure that Mr Foley can still benefit from the feedback, and look to getting his PR up from the dirt.

[protokatie]

OK..

Ich bin ein NEWB heir, can someone fill me in on this thread? Apparently someone (from what I can tell) is posting here again, but is somewhat unpopular due to transaction issues. Can someone clarify this for me? (Other than Turnarcade's website, I am not one to rush to judgement)

[FrizzleFried]

David Foley <> Christian Stango

It's all about the buck,   which in itself isn't a bad thing,   but when people resort to hurting others to make said buck,  then it gets a little tricky.

[davidrfoley]

You are correct fizzle, hurting others would be a bad thing.  I'm glad that I did not hurt anyone

[protokatie]

David Foley <> Christian Stango

It's all about the buck,   which in itself isn't a bad thing,   but when people resort to hurting others to make said buck,  then it gets a little tricky.

Ahh, ok. Gotcha. I will be placing 30 orders with slikstick tomorrow. As I know I can trust this guy.

[protokatie]

You are correct fizzle, hurting others would be a bad thing.  I'm glad that I did not hurt anyone

Well, I would think it fair if I were to ask you to clarify: Who are you and what business do you have/own? Just trying to keep on my toes here.

[davidrfoley]

Well, I think the who are you is pretty obvious (my user name is my real name)

At the moment I own HyperWare Technologies, although it's just me.  I used to own UltraCade Technologies which was acquired by Global VR in 2006.  I used to own HyperWare which was acquired by Quantum3D in 1998.

[Mauzy]

You are correct fizzle, hurting others would be a bad thing.  I'm glad that I did not hurt anyone

Well, I would think it fair if I were to ask you to clarify: Who are you and what business do you have/own? Just trying to keep on my toes here.

Have you read the thread? Cheffo went through what he's done that has everybody steamed...

[davidrfoley]

and also pointed out things that were associated to me, but I actually had nothing to do with.

[Level42]

Clay Cowgill is one of the prophets of arcade gaming.

Well, apparently  there were some issues with his Tempest multi-kit (blowing up boards.) Also APPARANTLY there were some issues with customer's problems handling and Frizz was not satisfied with his AS Multicade PCB's..........did that pay-back deal ever work out Frizz ?

AGAIN, I am NOT attacking anyone here, I'm just saying that people who create "special" stuff in the arcade scene are subject to debate. I have NO deals with either of these people (yet !).

Here's the KLOV thread:
http://forums.webmagic.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=2&Number=781215&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

[CheffoJeffo]

Thanks Level42 -- for the link and for making a good point.

[saint]

Interesting read, some stuff I didn't know.

[FrizzleFried]

Well, apparently  there were some issues with his Tempest multi-kit (blowing up boards.) Also APPARANTLY there were some issues with customer's problems handling and Frizz was not satisfied with his AS Multicade PCB's..........did that pay-back deal ever work out Frizz ?

Clay and I communicated and dealt with issues.  Clay was willing to buy both boards from me,  but I decided to keep them based on what I heard and how I heard it.  I was satisfied with the outcome.

[CheffoJeffo]

Never have figured out why collectors are so hot and bothered over Clay Cowgill... it was amazing to watch the RGVAC 'about face' when it was revealed Clay did the Multi-Williams PCBs in those crappy cabinets.

That was indeed kinda bizarre to watch.

[ChadTower]

Never have figured out why collectors are so hot and bothered over Clay Cowgill... it was amazing to watch the RGVAC 'about face' when it was revealed Clay did the Multi-Williams PCBs in those crappy cabinets.

Can't say I've used Clay's arcade stuff but I have always loved his PS1->Vectrex controller adapter.  That one is just great stuff.

[Dartful Dodger]

This guy legally copyrighted the name of a product that allows people to play copyrighted products illegally.

Am I the only one that finds the intense outrage over this ironically funny?

[davidrfoley]

You can not copyright a name.

[RayB]

Can't say I've used Clay's arcade stuff but I have always loved his PS1->Vectrex controller adapter.  That one is just great stuff.

  Got a link?! I gotta get me one of those!

[ChadTower]

  Got a link?! I gotta get me one of those!

I can't see multigame.com from here to check if it's still there or not.  I bought mine years ago, it took him many months to ship it, and I don't know that he has ever produced them again.  Google does show it still up here but I get a websense page from it.  It is quite cool - remappable buttons, full analog support for PS1 Dual Shock, though I always found the original PS1 controller worked best for most Vec games.

[Ummon]

Check out UltraStyle, its a freeware UI for MAME that was made after the UltraCade UI design.

It's a dead project.  I think the last version of MAME it worked with was .95 or so.

I tried the new patch but I got some weird error in process. With Hyperspin around the corner, you might look that direction.

[DreamArcades]

DreamArcades was selling unlicensed games.  They had bundles of ROMs that they did not license. 

Dream Arcades has never sold arcade games with unlicensed games. All our arcades include licensed PC or Rom titles. Anyone stating otherwise is misinformed or lying.

The MAME issue was resolved years ago.  If you feel that bringing it up all over again is useful and the moderators feel it is productive and of value, then we'll keep beating the topic over and over, however, none of the people actually involved care to keep going over it.

Ohh, we care. However, on the advice of my lawyer I'm remaining silent.

Along those same lines I really shouldn't reply any further on this thread, sorry everyone.