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Wii Mote Clone for PC. Cab Friendly? Stix

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wbassett:


--- Quote from: mark shaker on July 09, 2008, 09:30:42 am ---I played MAME Egg Venture and Wii House of the Dead 2 back to back, so that I could give you a true WaveIt to Wiimote comparison.

The WaveIt does *not* have a true light gun feel. However, it does have a true Wiimote feel.


As you know:

Light guns actually measure their position against the screen, so they are very accurate and do not require an onscreen cursor.

The Wiimote and WaveIt measure their position against IR beacons. If the relative IR Beacon position and the actual aimed at screen position are close enough, the user doesn't notice the difference. (Having an onscreen cursor goes a long way it tricking the user to believe that they are aiming at the screen.)


The WaveIt worked anywhere from just over 2' to about 12' from my 50" screen. (It might have worked even closer, but my "sensor bar" is not sitting on the edge of a surface, so the IR beacons may be reflecting from the surface and confusing the WaveIt.)

The WaveIt was very accurate in that it was repeatable.

The WaveIt cursor lags by a fraction of a second. (Again, like a Wiimote.)

   - Mark


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Good reporting Mark!

Were you ever able to get the buttons to be recognized within Mame?

As far as the 'light gun feel',  I think you guys nailed it in a sense that it's part trickery to our brain.  The Wii mote by itself doesn't feel like a gun at all, put it in a Nyko Perfect Shot and now it 'feels' like a gun. 

The TopGun and GunCon3 also use sensor bars and are very much the same type of technology, so if we can get the buttons mapped and then into some form that looks like a gun, we'll think we are using a light gun!

RandyT:


Yes, thanks much for the report.


--- Quote ---The WaveIt does *not* have a true light gun feel. However, it does have a true Wiimote feel.

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That's unfortunate :)


--- Quote ---The Wiimote and WaveIt measure their position against IR beacons. If the relative IR Beacon position and the actual aimed at screen position are close enough, the user doesn't notice the difference. (Having an onscreen cursor goes a long way it tricking the user to believe that they are aiming at the screen.)

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That doesn't mean that it can't function like any other gun control, just that a calibration step would be required every time one moved the IR LEDs.


--- Quote ---The WaveIt worked anywhere from just over 2' to about 12' from my 50" screen.

--- End quote ---

This is a much better range of operation than the TopGun.


--- Quote ---The WaveIt cursor lags by a fraction of a second. (Again, like a Wiimote.)

--- End quote ---

Arghh!  From what I understand, there is some "smoothing" taking place.  That may be responsible for some of the lag.  So far, I have not been a fan of the Wiimote because of that odd feel of it being a sluggish mouse control, rather than a fast tracking "gun" type device.


--- Quote from: wbassett on July 09, 2008, 10:35:45 am ---As far as the 'light gun feel',  I think you guys nailed it in a sense that it's part trickery to our brain.  The Wii mote by itself doesn't feel like a gun at all, put it in a Nyko Perfect Shot and now it 'feels' like a gun. 

The TopGun and GunCon3 also use sensor bars and are very much the same type of technology, so if we can get the buttons mapped and then into some form that looks like a gun, we'll think we are using a light gun!

--- End quote ---

Well, maybe not.  While a plastic grip might make it feel like a gun physically, the feel I was referring to is the immediate "shoot where you point" feel.  Any amount of perceivable lag is bad, bad, bad for shooting games.  And if a cursor is necessary, you might as well use your mouse, or one of those funky "gyro mouse guns".

Again, perhaps if position sampling / smoothing could be disabled the performance would tighten up.  A little jitter with a light gun is far better than lag.  But I do understand why stabilization code would be important when it is used as a pointer.  It's just that it's a different design philosophy that doesn't always lend itself well to other applications.

RandyT


wbassett:


--- Quote from: RandyT on July 09, 2008, 12:36:02 pm ---
--- Quote from: wbassett on July 09, 2008, 10:35:45 am ---As far as the 'light gun feel',  I think you guys nailed it in a sense that it's part trickery to our brain.  The Wii mote by itself doesn't feel like a gun at all, put it in a Nyko Perfect Shot and now it 'feels' like a gun. 

The TopGun and GunCon3 also use sensor bars and are very much the same type of technology, so if we can get the buttons mapped and then into some form that looks like a gun, we'll think we are using a light gun!

--- End quote ---

Well, maybe not.  While a plastic grip might make it feel like a gun physically, the feel I was referring to is the immediate "shoot where you point" feel.  Any amount of perceivable lag is bad, bad, bad for shooting games.  And if a cursor is necessary, you might as well use your mouse, or one of those funky "gyro mouse guns".

Again, perhaps if position sampling / smoothing could be disabled the performance would tighten up.  A little jitter with a light gun is far better than lag.  But I do understand why stabilization code would be important when it is used as a pointer.  It's just that it's a different design philosophy that doesn't always lend itself well to other applications.

RandyT


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Good points.  The lag as well as the cursor 'drift' on the TopGun is one of my biggest complaints.  It works good for general 'blob' shooting, but when you have to be able to aim and shoot quickly and accurately, then it shows some weakness.  I don't have the new drivers installed yet.  I planned on swapping out my Mame PC's the other weekend but work ended up changing my plans.  I hope the new drivers fix some of the issues.

Both my TopGun and the GunCon3 both have a split second lag like Mark mentioned.  Even so, in Time Crisis 4 in the mini games I can make it through all the target shooting, and as the games progress your speed and accuracy also have to progress.  The main difference between the two guns is the cursor on the GunCon3 doesn't drift to different positions throughout the screen like my TopGun does.

I haven't tried my Wii mote in Mame yet.  Partly because my work schedule has been crazy lately and partly because I'm trying to hold off for something better than GlovePie.  I will be testing out the new Happ controller with actual arcade light guns, but I have to admit I am really more excited about going wireless and having custom guns ;)

My verdict is still out on the Wii mote.  The people I've talked to said their setup is very responsive and accurate, so I still think there's hope.   My opinion is that if any lag issues can be resolved then something like the Wii mote, the Stiks 200, or the WaveIt should work fine and feel the same as the TopGun or GunCon3.  Well, as long as they feel like a gun in your hand and when you point at something and shoot it falls down!

Slightly off topic, but anyone know of a small profile wireless USB dongle?  Not for the PC end but for the device end?

agrunnet:

Just to clarify, are you referring to the Stix or the Wavit? 
The Wavit folks should be very responsive. Try writing to support@thinkoptics.com.   



--- Quote from: wbassett on July 05, 2008, 01:00:18 am ---I tried calling them a couple of times and could never get a real person.  I left a couple of messages and so far haven't gotten a call back... not a very good sign.

This one does look interesting though.  A bit expensive but interesting...

--- Quote from: mark shaker on July 03, 2008, 08:35:26 am ---I've used a Think Optics "WaveIt" remote for as my media center remote control for months. It does have a sensor bar.  It's fast and accurate. But, I've never tried any games.

http://www.thinkoptics.com/WavitHome.html

   - Mark

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wbassett:


--- Quote from: agrunnet on July 10, 2008, 04:07:07 pm ---Just to clarify, are you referring to the Stix or the Wavit? 
The Wavit folks should be very responsive. Try writing to support@thinkoptics.com.   



--- Quote from: wbassett on July 05, 2008, 01:00:18 am ---I tried calling them a couple of times and could never get a real person.  I left a couple of messages and so far haven't gotten a call back... not a very good sign.

This one does look interesting though.  A bit expensive but interesting...

--- Quote from: mark shaker on July 03, 2008, 08:35:26 am ---I've used a Think Optics "WaveIt" remote for as my media center remote control for months. It does have a sensor bar.  It's fast and accurate. But, I've never tried any games.

http://www.thinkoptics.com/WavitHome.html

   - Mark

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Yeah it was Stix, but since that post they did call me back.  I explained what our interest in and what we would be using it for and they said they would check with the engineers and see it it will work the way we want it to.

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