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the water car, water4gas

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squirrellydw:
I just find it odd that both fox news and cnn covered this and they didn't say anything bad.  I did see it on TV not just the website.  I know nothing about chem so I have no clue, just found it interesting

Jdurg:
Well, it's a story where no scientific proof is given so of course Fox News and CNN would show it.   ;) :P ;D

Basically, water IS a combustion product.  Whenever you burn a hydrocarbon (such as gasoline, methane, ethane, etc.), you get nothing but CO2 and H2O.  (We get other stuff as well when burning gas, but that's due to contaminants in gasoline).  Water is simply the product of burning hydrogen with oxygen.

Things burn because they are going from a higher energetic state to a lower energetic state.  In doing that, energy is given off.  This is why we get heat when stuff is on fire, or energy from the burning of gasoline.  The atoms in the molecules go from a high energy state to a lower energy state.

To get hydrogen out of water, you MUST put in more energy than you get out from it.  You absolutely have to.  Anyone who says otherwise is a complete lier.  So for this "hydrogen car", if they claim that they are getting hydrogen gas on demand for cheap, they are not telling the truth and are trying to scam you.

protokatie:

--- Quote ---To get hydrogen out of water, you MUST put in more energy than you get out from it.  You absolutely have to.  Anyone who says otherwise is a complete lier.  So for this "hydrogen car", if they claim that they are getting hydrogen gas on demand for cheap, they are not telling the truth and are trying to scam you.
--- End quote ---

Odd, I thought I already pointed this out... :P

But yeah, hydrogen powered cars would be great IF and ONLY IF we had a cheap renewable source of power to make the hydrogen. As I stated in my last post; hydrogen is only a way to store energy, and in fact it isnt a very usefull way to do it. (Hydrogen leaks through the walls of its container for instance).

Basically: You only reap what you sow. It really comes down to "you can only get the energy if it is there, and energy is transferable but not "free"". IE Law of conservation of energy.

Ed_McCarron:

--- Quote from: protokatie on June 22, 2008, 08:32:10 pm ---As I stated in my last post; hydrogen is only a way to store energy, and in fact it isnt a very usefull way to do it. (Hydrogen leaks through the walls of its container for instance).

--- End quote ---

Supposedly, advances are being made in storing the H2 in a metal-hydride lattice; no leaks or explosions.  The downside is that you need to dump even more energy in to the system to liberate the H2 from the hydride.

Hydrogen comes into play when you can sit a solar panel in your back yard, pump in some water, and have a full tank the next day.  Then it'll take off.

RayB:
Why would anyone WANT cars to run on water??!  A bottle of water is way more expensive than the same amount of gas.  We're already in a delicate situation when it comes to water for general human consumption. And anyone who owns a home knows water our of the tap isn't free either (easy to think so when you live in an apartment where the general cost of water is just factored into your rent). Next thing you know they'll be using food for fuel and driving up food costs (oops, already happening).

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