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is apple computer good?

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massive88:
If somebody asks, should I buy an Apple or a PC, its a hardware question to me.

If someone asks should I use OSX or XP or Linux or FreeDos or whatever, that is a different (software) question; to me anyway.  Use whatover OS gets you off, for me, the hardware Ill buy is a PC for the reasons listed above.

It used to be that these were the same question, hence the confusion we find here.  Nowadays, it is not.

pointdablame:

--- Quote from: AtomSmasher on June 09, 2008, 07:09:52 pm ---
--- Quote from: pointdablame on June 09, 2008, 06:19:09 pm ---I'd have to disagree, though it is mostly semantics.  With the Apple Intel platform, Macs essentially ARE PCs if you're talking hardware.  There's nothing in there that isn't PC by your argument.   And I have no clue how it being made of PC parts just like a "normal" Mac would make it better.

You definitely pay for Apple design and that certain cachet that comes with it, but a Hackintosh is as much a Mac as a "real one" in my mind if you put aside looks.  And as to the original poster's question, it'd be transparent to him as what he's really asking is if he should switch to OSX and spend the cash on an Apple.  The hackintosh would lessen the money side of the argument and put him in OSX.

--- End quote ---
Lets use a couple examples:
You build a computer from parts with the intent of putting OSX into it, but end up installing windows XP into it instead.  Is it a Mac or a PC?  I don't think anyone would call it a Mac. 

You buy an actual Mac from the Apple store, format it and only install windows XP.  Is it a Mac or a PC?  I don't think anyone would call it a PC.

The Apple design you mentioned is what makes it an Apple, without it, it's just a PC with OSX installed...not that theres anything wrong with that.  :)

--- End quote ---

And if you put either of the cases behind a desk door and turn it on, what will people say it is?  They'll say its a Mac when they see OSX and a PC when they see XP.

My point is "PC parts" is bad nomenclature these days when the exact same parts can load up XP or OSX.  They're computer parts -- the only thing differentiating them at the point of use is the OS installed.

I'm not saying the mac styling isn't important, it most certainly is to almost every single mac buyer.  But if you want to use/try a mac but don't want to spend Apple prices, a hackintosh is cheaper and will get the you exact same experience unless you spend more time staring at your case than your monitor.

AtomSmasher:

--- Quote from: pointdablame on June 12, 2008, 10:43:42 pm ---And if you put either of the cases behind a desk door and turn it on, what will people say it is?  They'll say its a Mac when they see OSX and a PC when they see XP.

My point is "PC parts" is bad nomenclature these days when the exact same parts can load up XP or OSX.  They're computer parts -- the only thing differentiating them at the point of use is the OS installed.

I'm not saying the mac styling isn't important, it most certainly is to almost every single mac buyer.  But if you want to use/try a mac but don't want to spend Apple prices, a hackintosh is cheaper and will get the you exact same experience unless you spend more time staring at your case than your monitor.

--- End quote ---
I would not call a home built OSX machine a Mac just the same as I would not call a home built windows machine a Dell.  PC stands for Personal Computer which means it isn't necessarily built by a brand name and it doesn't specify which OS it has installed.  PC's can have Windows, Linix, Unix, and now OSX installed on them, and they shouldn't be called anything different depending on what OS they have installed.  I understand in the past the term PC has pretty much meant every personal computer other then Macs, but that was because Macs ran on completely different hardware then every other OS and it was quite difficult to build a hackintosh anyways.  Now they are all the same hardware wise, so hackintosh hardware is no longer Apple specific, which means they no longer have the Apple brand name attached to them, and that a hackintosh is a just a PC with OSX installed.  But it doesn't really matter, as it's been mentioned it's just semantics, so call it a unicorn for all I care  :P

And I never said (and I don't believe anyone else did either) that you will not have the exact same experience when you build your own OSX computer over an official Mac, so I don't know why your talking about that.  I built all of my own computers and got a lot more for my money over buying a brand name, and the same goes for anyone that wants to run OSX.  I'd recommend building their own over buying brand name to anyone who is knowledgeable enough to do so.

Level42:
People always say Macs are more expensive but that's not true.

1) You get a great set of USEFUL and POWERFUL software with the machine, instead of some 30-day versions of crap.

2) A Mac stays up in value more than any PC. F.I. I bought my Mac Mini in sept 2006. I upgraded to Leopard and it's running FASTER than it was before. Try that with an upgrade from (f.i.) XP to Vista. Apple is now working on Snow Leopard, and instead of the wrong direction MS is always taking (adding more features) they are focussing on getting Leopard to perform better. I've NEVER heard anyone from MS say they would actualy concentrate on that. It's a non-issue because in their devilish pact with the hardware manufacturers they make sure every new version of their OS needs more horsepower, thus forcing people to buy a new machine every 2/3 years.

When Snow Leopard is ready, my Mini will again make a performance jump. Not that it's really necessary, it's powerful enough for my day-to-day jobs I do on it. So, I will be using it for 4/5 years and it will run faster than when I first bought it.

Also, Macs are selling for higher prices second hand (at least here they are).

3) Cost of wasted PC time. I mean having to deal with hardware/software issues on PC's took me a lot of time when I was a PC user. Simply having to run virus and malware scans is already a burdon. But it really gets bad when you start to get problems that take you hours to solve. I've always wanted to use a computer as a TV: turn it on, work, turn it off, walk away. On a Mac that's possible.

4) Apple refuses to use below-par components. I mean f.i. the processor. There are no Macs with crappy Celeron processors. If you compare laptops with the same hardware specs between Apple and PC compatible machines, the Mac is not that more expensive.

5) More value for money. You get a beautiful machine. In looks and feels. It's quite. It's working.

I've never been a PC enthusiast. I've used a Jackintosh (Atari ST) for as long as I could (until way into the 90's) and loved it. I was never glad that I "had" to switch to a PC and now I'm glad I could a afford a simple Mini that just does what it's supposed to every day I use it :)

Blanka:

--- Quote from: Level42 on June 13, 2008, 01:32:34 am ---People always say Macs are more expensive but that's not true.

3) Cost of wasted PC time. I mean having to deal with hardware/software issues on PC's took me a lot of time when I was a PC user. Simply having to run virus and malware scans is already a burdon. But it really gets bad when you start to get problems that take you hours to solve. I've always wanted to use a computer as a TV: turn it on, work, turn it off, walk away. On a Mac that's possible.

--- End quote ---

What Mac enthusiast forget is that OSX is the key factor in the experience. The nice case is nice for first week you buy it and for all those encounters with friends that awe at you. After the butterfly-week when you start production on it, the case does not matter anymore. It even starts to annoy you. My MacMini is having a enormous clutter of peripherals around it. The display of an iMac shows you perfect when the boss stands behind you. And for the design, Apple left the NEXT cube corporate design long time ago, and switched to MTV-rapper-vs-Paris-Hilton style bling-bling aproach.

For the great components look somewhere else too. A mini dies after a year when used 24/7 as server because of the bad note-book harddrive. For the same money you get a 3,5 inch server grade twice the size. You have to enlarge the case (I dont care, its too small anyway) but oh, that is against the holy knee of Steve!

Same with carppy Geforce 7300 vidcards in MacPro's, and lame penryn processors in iMacs. Why model everything around mobile chipsets? A Intel E8400 is similar low energy use as the special 3 Ghz iMac processor, but it costs halve, has better bus and memory speed, and the whole architecture around it is cheaper. Apple makes itself too expensive by doing everything with mobile technology. Heck the 2 cm deep screen of an iMac. I have an 24 inch matte Eizo that is 8 cm, and still I do never ever have a problem with its depth.

Last thing maccers forget is the big shakeout of different architectures on the PC side. In 2000 it would have been hell to try and make OSX X86 PC compatible. Today it is peanuts. I ran OSX on a generic PC and it runs fantastic. Apple could make OSX available to everyone with just 2 weeks of work. Write a good NVidea/ATI generic driver, and support Bios. That's all. All the rest works already. Leopard can be installed from the original DVD already on NON macs!

In the end it is only OSX that makes the difference. Nothing else. Unless you buy a computer not to work on but to show off. Then buy mac.
But Apple seems to have forgotten the people who use a Mac to Work on, and kept the brand alive in the dark years. If you are a true designer, you use a total awesome hackintosh today.

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