U360 had its Thunder Stolen.

[TPB]

For those using MAME as their sole emulator ...

MAME .118 onwards offers the joystick_map option, which uses predefined joystick maps to configure an analogue joystick for each game.

Does this mean that any PC analogue USB joystick could be used in MAME, and work fine for all games, correctly simulating all types of joysticks (2, 4, 8, Q*Bert, Analogue) ?

I'm not sure if MAME has a predefined map for 49 way games such as Sinistar etc., but you can also make your own maps in an INI file for such games.

Any analogue stick could therefore deliver the same benefit as the U360 ?

Has the U360 had its thunder stolen ?   


PC analogue USB joysticks offer the following advantages :

* Many "lower end" sticks can be purchased new for under 10 bucks.

* Most offer topfire buttons.


These sticks lack the arcade design & feel, and the configurability, of the U360's ... but it's nice to have different options available for purchase.

[ahofle]

The problem is a PC joystick is not even close to arcade quality.  They are also difficult to mount properly on most CPs.  I don't know of many (any?) arcade analog sticks other than the U360 below $200 or so.  Also, as you mentioned a PC joystick is usually much bigger and lacks the compact feel of a typical arcade joystick.  So I don't think the U360 is any danger of being replaced. 

But yes, the new MAME mapping is very nice.  I wish I had an analog stick on my panel to take advantage of it.

[(+_+)]

Any analogue stick could therefore deliver the same benefit as the U360 ?
:

Perhaps. But IMHO, it comes nowhere near having a properly mounted real arcade quality joystick that has much more sophisticated mapping features.

Has the U360 had its thunder stolen ?   

No Chance

[Ginsu Victim]

No PC controller feels as good as a U360.

Hell, a majority of arcade joysticks don't either.

[u_rebelscum]

This has been discussed before.  To rehash:

u360
pros:
arcade quality joystick, in ball or bat models, with different restrictors and springs
can remap as needed for different games, emulators, or applications
different sticks can have different maps at the same time
made for mounting on CPs
translation done within internal firmware, with 14 bit internal analog

cons:
only works on u360
more expensive than cheap analog sticks
no thumb or trigger buttons
no flightstick, throttle, or other shapes
need to set up special plug-ins to automatically switch
need to mount on CP

-----

PC analog stick + mame's -joystick_map option
pros:
works with any analog joystick that works on the PC (wide selection of shape & features)
automatic defaults already setup for all games in mame
no plug in, or plugin ready FE, or even FE, are needed

cons:
only works in mame
only one map can be used at a time, all analog joysticks get that map
applying non-default maps is on game by game basis
most are hard to mount on CP


Did u360 "lose thunder"?  Well, very little, about from 120 dB down to 118 dB, but mostly in the high pitch, and the midrange actually increased a little.  (Lost "only stick to switch between analog, 8-way 4-way 4-way diag", gained "easier to set up".)

Me, I have u360s, but use mame's -joystick_map. 

[dgame]

If anything I would say the MAME -joystick_map option makes the U360 an even more attractive offering. No need to worry about MAME front end mapping plug-ins and such. Perhaps this will even encourage the production of other analog arcade type sticks.

[Minwah]

The problem is a PC joystick is not even close to arcade quality.

This is the biggie. That and it is even very difficult to get an interface-able *arcade* analog joystick which is anywhere need as good for all round gaming.

[Stub]

And what about other emu?

Maybe if you have only the one emulator in your cab there might be an argument, but I cant see ever owning any others for your main stick.

[Havok]

More accurately put, the UltraMap software has lost its thunder...

[TPB]

And what about other emu?

I did make this qualification in my post ...

For those using MAME as their sole emulator ...

MAME .118 onwards offers the joystick_map option ...

It's not that unusual to be content in using MAME as your sole emulator.


Although, an analogue PC USB joystick could also be used for these games :

** PC games (of course);

** Console emulators, where the console utilised analogue sticks on the controllers (such as Nintendo 64).

[TPB]

More accurately put, the UltraMap software has lost its thunder...

Yes ... that's a nice distinction.

The sticks themselves are still awesome, with a sturdy arcade build quality, and configurable to the Nth degree with different restrictors, springs, etc.

[TPB]

Slightly off-topic, but it's worth mentioning ...


All credit to "the scum".

You can guarantee he'll always provide the most technically detailed, informative replies ... and delivered in a friendly manner.

The detail is very helpful, and much appreciated.

I reckon he's a real asset to the arcade gaming ranks.   

[fjl]

Does this analog thing also work for analog gamepads? cause I just tried Q-bert on my Logitech Dual Action controller for the PC with MAME .119 and I didn't see a difference.

On the analog control its still;

Left = Up-Left
Up = Up-Right
Down = Down-Left
Right = Down-Right

Or does it do something completely different?

[Ginsu Victim]

You have to setup Qbert games and Congo Bongo separate. They are technically 4-way, but I don't know if MAME maps them right or not.

Since I have U360s, I just have a Qbert map that I've told Mamewah to load instead of the standard 4-way on those specific games.

[arzoo]

You have to setup Qbert games and Congo Bongo separate. They are technically 4-way, but I don't know if MAME maps them right or not.

Since I have U360s, I just have a Qbert map that I've told Mamewah to load instead of the standard 4-way on those specific games.

I also found that mame did not map correctly for Qbert and ended up using a custom u360 map.

[u_rebelscum]

You have to setup Qbert games and Congo Bongo separate. They are technically 4-way, but I don't know if MAME maps them right or not.

I also found that mame did not map correctly for Qbert ...

Really?  That would be a bug; I'll test this this weekend.  Mame has basically the same "4-way diagonal" analog2digital map that the ultramap utility does.  And AFAIK should automatically pick it for these two games.  If it doesn't work like it should, I'll see what I can do.

...and ended up using a custom u360 map.

Err, was anything wrong with the 4-way diag map that came with the utility, also?

[Ginsu Victim]

I use FastMAME .84 and the Qbert map with UltraMAP doesn't work for it. Wrong directions. I had to make my own.

Since I use .84, I've never been able to test MAME's function for auto-mapping. I just know that in older versions, Qbert and Congo Bongo were only "4-way" and need custom maps loaded.

Also, a reminder, I'm using a private beta of Mamewah that loads maps according to the game's control listing. Standard Mamewah doesn't have this feature (it required a map per game).

[massive88]

As far as qbert is concerned, can the mame mapping be used digital to digital as well?  To get the diagonals working correctly?  Or will it only remap an analog joy?

Ive been trying to get qbert to play right to no avail so far...

[u_rebelscum]

I also found that mame did not map correctly for Qbert ...

...That would be a bug; I'll test this this weekend.  Mame has basically the same "4-way diagonal" analog2digital map that the ultramap utility does.  And AFAIK should automatically pick it for these two games.  If it doesn't work like it should, I'll see what I can do.

Okay, quick skim of code (0.125u4), and yup, it looks like the rotated flag is not set anymore.  Any other games besides qbert (& clones), qbert cubes, and congo bongo that I should look at?

[u_rebelscum]

As far as qbert is concerned, can the mame mapping be used digital to digital as well?  To get the diagonals working correctly?  Or will it only remap an analog joy?

Ive been trying to get qbert to play right to no avail so far...

No and yes.

The -joystick_map is only for analog to digital convertion.  However,

Mame's standard remap can be used for what you want.  Map the joy's diagonals to the game's cardinal directions, as follows IIRC:
p1 up: joy up & right
p1 right: joy right & down
p1 down: joy down & left
p1 left: joy left & up

[massive88]

No and yes.

The -joystick_map is only for analog to digital convertion.  However,

Mame's standard remap can be used for what you want.  Map the joy's diagonals to the game's cardinal directions, as follows IIRC:
p1 up: joy up & right
p1 right: joy right & down
p1 down: joy down & left
p1 left: joy left & up

Slap forehead.

I should have thought of that.  Guess Ill have to do it as manual configs for the games that need it.  Thanks as always Rebel!

[TheShanMan]

Yeah massive88, that approach works great for me using my 8 way stick.

[fjl]

Won't it end up being a bit unresponsive since it requires the joy to trigger two directions at one time? The original Q-bert was simply a four way joystick put in at a 45 degree angle so it only responded to one button trigger.

I suppose I could simply test it out myself but I'm too lazy right now. 

[headkaze]

I've noticed a few people on here are using a custom map for QBert which looks something like this

[TheShanMan]

Won't it end up being a bit unresponsive since it requires the joy to trigger two directions at one time? The original Q-bert was simply a four way joystick put in at a 45 degree angle so it only responded to one button trigger.

I suppose I could simply test it out myself but I'm too lazy right now. 

Why would that make it unresponsive? I don't play it often, but I have never thought "man, this isn't responding very well".