Centipede Mini Restoration

[SirPeale]

I only care because it's my my machine.  I'd like the label for the sake of authenticity.  I think the serial is on other places in the cab besides those two spots, so it's easy enough to tell what's what.

[SirPeale]

I primed the whole control panel, but only painted the inside semi-gloss black. I debated painting the top since it'll be covered with the overlay anyway. What say you all? Is there a risk of the primer coming off or anything?  I'm just terrified that this will happen, rendering my expensive CPO useless.

[Level42]

Paint the top side too and then put the CPO over it. Either you leave it blank and then CPO, but I prefer complete painting and then CPO. Best way to prevent rust from button and joystick hole edges. And it really is not that much more effort.

[SirPeale]

Painting around here is always an effort.  I live in a two bedroom apartment.  Anytime I have to paint I have to drag everything out to the curb, then precariously bring it back to the house without trying to touch it.  And if a fly lands on it, or cottonwood seeds...dammit.  So I try and avoid it wherever possible.

I'll do it anyway, but I'll be gritting my teeth the whole time.

[SirPeale]

I’ve been biting my nails over applying the artwork on the control panel because…well, it’s an expensive learning experience if I screw it up.

I’ve taken way too long on preparing the control panel. Mostly because the old paint/CPO adhesive was such a pain to remove. But partially because I’ve been putting it off.

I didn’t want to misalign it, and I didn’t want it to slowly peel off because I didn’t stick it down properly.

Finally I figured I’d just have to “go for it” and put it on.

Sarah has some kind of rubber roller I used to help remove air bubbles from under the overlay. It helped some.

I had plans on using the heat gun to help the overlay bend over the curved edges, but Riley distracted me and I held it in one spot too long, and it promptly warped. Not terribly so, but I definitely notice it. Argh.

All in all I had to peel one corner or another about a dozen times to get the air bubbles out from underneath. There are still a couple, but I had to finally give in and say “this is about as good as it’s going to get.”

[Level42]

Wait a couple of days, The tiny couple of bubbles that were on my Centi CPO were gone after a couple of days....

[ChadTower]

If you used the right primer it should be hard to scrape off, nevermind peel on its own.  That's what primer is for - adhesion.

I have found a laminate roller works really well for decals and overlays.  Easy to find and designed to do the same job on much heavier materials.  Just don't let the kids play with it as it can be amusing and they'll never put it away (like mine).

[RayB]

Peale, is that a repro overlay, or NOS? The texture looks NOS. Mine was a repro and I now have cracking along the bend. White shows in the cracks. I had applied it in late 2006. That's not very long for it to be cracking, though I admit I didn't apply any heat when doing so.

(As a comparison, my Galaga's NOS overlay, which I applied in 2002 (also without heat) shows some light cracking at the bend too, but no "white" showing through. The overlay is thicker and sturdier.)

US Amusements has NOS Centipede cabaret overlays. I will probably buy one as a backup, cuz at this rate, the current overlay is going to look like crap within 2 more years.

[SirPeale]

It's a repro.

[Wade]

I know it's too late now but I'll mention this for others reading.  I always paint CP's either white or light grey primer, and black around the edges/holes.  The reason is bare metal or black WILL show through the lighter areas of every CPO I've ever had, and make the colors look darker/dull.

For an inkjet piece that already has a layer of white vinyl before the ink, it might not matter as much, but every quality screenprinted repro I've had showed this problem so I now paint white with black borders.  Definitely makes a difference.

Wade

[SirPeale]

About six months ago I learned that black bolts aren't actually black...they've been blued using the same process that they use to "blue" gun barrels.

There are two different processes...hot and cold.

Hot involves chemicals and temperatures that I have absolutely no way of achieving here @ Casa del Peale.

Cold is easy, but involves toxic chemicals.  I just bought a little container of the solution, dipped in my part, rinsed it off and wiped it down.  Repeated that a couple times.  Turned these zinc plated bolts black in nothing flat.

The bolts were also polished down to remove the raised lettering on top.  Started with 120 grit, then moved to 400, then to 800. 

[SirPeale]

I put the cab into storage today.  There's not much more I can do with it until I get some more cash.  I swapped the game out with the Galaxian cab.  Stay tuned to that thread for updates.

I did snap a picture of it just before I loaded it into my van.  I'll post it later.

[SirPeale]

Last picture of this beastie for a little while.  Since I view this as a "keeper" machine I put it in storage to get one of the machines I'm flipping.

[SirPeale]

 

I'm in the process of moving the machines from their storage space to a place within walking distance that will be both storage AND a workshop.     Today I moved the games I have at the house to the new space, then I decided to try a run to see how long it'll take me to get one, pick it up and drop it off.

The Centipede mini is (of course) right where I left it, right in the entryway of the space.  I hauled it out, and I noted something on the CPO.  When I set it down to examine it closer, I noted it was just a piece of fluff.  But that's when I noted...

The trackball bolts - the heads are completely rusted!  They're zinc plated bolts that I sanded down the letters on, then dipped in gun bluing solution several times.  When I put the game in storage it was pristine.  I have to find some way to stop it from rusting.

In addition, the CPO around one of the bolts has cracked a bit around the bolt head.  I made sure not to over tighten it, so I don't know how this happened. 

[StuDaBaker]

The trackball bolts - the heads are completely rusted!  They're zinc plated bolts that I sanded down the letters on, then dipped in gun bluing solution several times.  When I put the game in storage it was pristine.  I have to find some way to stop it from rusting.

Now I am by no means a firearm expert, nor an arcade expert (as you can see by my noob status here), so flame away if I talk out ---my bottom--- , but my understanding is that guns need to be re-blued from time to time. Maybe priming - painting them as Spyridon did on his Centipede restoration would be a better solution?

The issue with the CPO could be that while in storage, changes in climate, expansion/contraction scenario (unless climate controlled storage), or possibly some undo pressure on the cpo while man-handling the machine during moving and transport? Just a guess. Either way, I feel your pain. Good luck with the rest of the work.

[SirPeale]

I've got a better explanation.

The original bolts were blued, but either it was a hot process which has a better coating (likely) or the zinc coating was all over.  Note that I had to remove the lettering on top, and as such stripped the top of zinc.  AFAIK only the tops rusted, the rest is fine.

A temporary measure could be to lightly oil the bolts.  That's how firearms are prevented from rusting.

And the place the games were was terribly humid and dank.  I'm not surprised it happened, but it still irks me.

[MaximRecoil]

I've got a better explanation.

The original bolts were blued, but either it was a hot process which has a better coating (likely) or the zinc coating was all over.  Note that I had to remove the lettering on top, and as such stripped the top of zinc.  AFAIK only the tops rusted, the rest is fine.

A temporary measure could be to lightly oil the bolts.  That's how firearms are prevented from rusting.

And the place the games were was terribly humid and dank.  I'm not surprised it happened, but it still irks me.

Bluing is a black oxide finish. When done to guns it is usually called "bluing". When done to other things such as bolts, it is usually called "black oxide". Bluing provides a small degree of rust protection; enough to prevent rust while just sitting around in normal indoor conditions; but it doesn't handle harsh conditions well (even repeated exposure to the salts in fingerprints will cause rust).

Keep in mind that a "cold blue" solution only mimicks the appearance of bluing/black oxide; it is not a true black oxide finish (it is a copper selenium compound), and has essentially no rust protection properties at all. Here is a link comparing the two processes.

Finding new carriage bolts with a factory applied black oxide finish (try here and specifically request smooth heads), or taking your existing ones to a gunsmith and having them properly blued would be the best options. However, you can also sand the rust off your bolts, reapply the cold blue, and then protect them from rust with an application of car wax (very durable) or a silicone cloth (wears off easily but quick and easy to reapply - get them from any gunshop or numerous places online).

Of course, you can use oil too, but that's messy. Both car wax and silicone residue from a silicone cloth are "dry" in appearance and touch. Car wax is often used on blued guns that are carried concealed a lot, because it doesn't get oil on your clothes and/or holster, and it doesn't need to be reapplied constantly like oil does.

[Wade]

Keep the oil away from your games.  Just resand the bolts and hit them with some rustoleum paint.  Looks even better and they won't rust again.  I have never had satisfactory results from bluing bolts, so I don't even try any more.  I just paint them.  Works great and never has worn or off chipped on any of my games.

Wade

[Pac-Fan]

Just put a carriage bolt in a drill, sand with a foam black, then spray with a black epoxy (Appliance) primer and it will not rust again, and flaking will not be a prolem with the Epoxy coating.  I do this with control panels, speaker grills, marquee brackets, coin doors and carriage bolts.

[MaximRecoil]

Bluing looks different than paint (and better IMO); and I think that's the point. Bluing doesn't look like a coating, it looks like the steel itself is black to begin with; similar to the effect colored anodizing has on aluminum.

[SirPeale]

Bluing looks different than paint (and better IMO); and I think that's the point. Bluing doesn't look like a coating, it looks like the steel itself is black to begin with; similar to the effect colored anodizing has on aluminum.

Agreed.  I'm researching gunsmiths in my area.

[Wade]

Bluing looks different than paint (and better IMO); and I think that's the point. Bluing doesn't look like a coating, it looks like the steel itself is black to begin with; similar to the effect colored anodizing has on aluminum.

Agreed.  I'm researching gunsmiths in my area.

If you're that bent on the black oxide finish... why not just order some new ones?  I have a variety of sizes I ordered from Bob Roberts or a similar parts shop at some point.  I think mine have lettering on them, but really... are you that particular about your bolt heads?

In my opinion... a decent painted bolt head looks almost identical, if not better, than most factory black oxide bolts.  Painted seems to last longer too.  If you think semigloss looks too "good", try flat or semi-flat paint.  Looks almost identical.

Wade

[SirPeale]

Keep in mind I do this sort of thing as a "hobby business".  So although yes, this is just four bolts on this game, I will likely have need of many others in the near future.  So far I have not found a *local* source of hot bluing.  I contacted a gunsmith in the area and he referred me to the guy he uses...in CT.  Of course, this is just the one guy I've contacted and I've made no other moves.  Right this second it's not that high a priority.  I'll return to it when I get the opportunity.

[MaximRecoil]

If you're that bent on the black oxide finish... why not just order some new ones?  I have a variety of sizes I ordered from Bob Roberts or a similar parts shop at some point.  I think mine have lettering on them, but really... are you that particular about your bolt heads?

In my opinion... a decent painted bolt head looks almost identical, if not better, than most factory black oxide bolts.  Painted seems to last longer too.  If you think semigloss looks too "good", try flat or semi-flat paint.  Looks almost identical.

The only time paint can approximate the look of bluing/black oxide is when the bolts are blued in a fairly rough state; in which case, it resembles flat black paint or primer. When the steel is fairly smooth before bluing, the results can not even be approximated with paint. Atari's carriage bolts used the smooth process, at least the ones on my Missile Command did.

And to see just how far the bluing process can be taken, take a look at a vintage Colt Python or Smith & Wesson N-frame revolver sometime. Those have blued finishes so "deep" that it seems like you could dive into them; and are as different in appearance from paint as night is from day.

In any event, the point is; the more polished/smooth the steel is prior to bluing, the less it looks like paint after bluing; and Atari used fairly smooth bolts.

[Wade]

It sounds to me like you're just really particular about black oxide finishes. We're not talking about show guns, we're talking about bolt heads on videogames.  I've used new blackened bolts and painted bolts on a couple dozen video and pin restorations, and no one has yet to comment about any of the bolt heads not looking right.  Like I said... in my opinion, painted ones look better than the factory finish most of the time.  If you're that particular about your bolt heads, I'd like to see the other parts of your games!

Wade

[ChadTower]

Gotta admit I don't see how a "hobby business" can make money from the difference between painted bolts and blue oxide bolts.

[MaximRecoil]

We're not talking about show guns, we're talking about bolt heads on videogames.

I knew that line was coming. Seriously, as I walked into the kitchen after making that post, I knew someone would misunderstand the reference to the revolvers, despite the fact that I posted the following sentence, which explicitly stated the point of the gun reference:

"In any event, the point is; the more polished/smooth the steel is prior to bluing, the less it looks like paint after bluing; and Atari used fairly smooth bolts."

The revolvers were an extreme example of just how different bluing can look from paint, but it is a sliding scale, and Atari carriage bolts are closer to looking like a gun finish than looking like paint. If talking about the black oxide finish on e.g., a sheetrock screw, then that looks similar to flat black paint because the screws are in a very crude/rough state when they are finished.

I've used new blackened bolts and painted bolts on a couple dozen video and pin restorations, and no one has yet to comment about any of the bolt heads not looking right.  Like I said... in my opinion, painted ones look better than the factory finish most of the time.  If you're that particular about your bolt heads, I'd like to see the other parts of your games!

I'm particular with regard to things being correct; but not necessarily with the exact condition of everything. I'd prefer original bolts with some finish-wear on them to brand new bolts with a perfect, but incorrect finish. The same applies to many other things on the machine, e.g., original art in decent condition vs. brand new inkjet art.

Painted bolts scream "homemade".

[SirPeale]

Gotta admit I don't see how a "hobby business" can make money from the difference between painted bolts and blue oxide bolts.

Drops in a bucket, but drops add up. 

Paint also doesn't stand up, esp on a control panel. 

Plus I like the way the bluing looks more.

And...oh wait, I don't have to explain anything to anyone.  If paint works good for everyone else, fine.  I'll keep plugging away at getting these properly blued.

[Wade]

I'm particular with regard to things being correct; but not necessarily with the exact condition of everything. I'd prefer original bolts with some finish-wear on them to brand new bolts with a perfect, but incorrect finish. The same applies to many other things on the machine, e.g., original art in decent condition vs. brand new inkjet art.

Okay, well, I can't argue with your preference.  Obviously, I'm in the middle of the road as far as originality is concerned.  I often make compromises in order to have a nicer/newer/cleaner/more durable game, but sometimes those have a drawback as far as originality, durability, etc.  Sometimes I'll use laminate which is more durable than the original finish, other times I'll use replacement t-molding or artwork that looks nicer than a worn original but is not as durable long term.

I've also taken regular non-blackened bolts and polished them to a mirror shine.  Not original or correct, but sure looks great!

Do you have a link to a web album or blog about your games?  Just wondering if you're this particular about all aspects of your games, or just the bolt heads.

Painted bolts scream "homemade".

Now that's just a low blow!   You call it "homemade", I call it "better than factory."

Wade

[MaximRecoil]

Do you have a link to a web album or blog about your games?  Just wondering if you're this particular about all aspects of your games, or just the bolt heads.

None of my machines are restored, but they are original or OEM in the areas which I consider important, and/or when possible. My Missile Command looks the nicest; almost could be HUO. There are a few things I want to do to it (like rebuilding the trackball, finding a control panel that has the original direct printed art still in good shape, and getting new cones and buttons), but it is pretty nice as-is:

Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3

Those pictures were taken by the previous owner (it still looks the same).

My Super Punch-Out machine would be next; almost as nice as the Missile Command, but I had to search out some stuff for it (like finding a control panel with its original CPO in good shape).

The biggest flaw with the SPO machine is the security bar holes. Ideally the holes wouldn't be there in the first place, but since I don't intend to restore the machine (I'll never restore it unless perhaps if someone can figure out a way of exactly duplicating the original unique Nintendo black finish on the cabinet, which is still in decent shape on my machine), I decided to plug the holes with black carriage bolts. I found some from a pinball supply place with a smooth head and a nice smooth black oxide finish, made by Midway, which were perfect for the job. So yeah, the security bar mounting holes suck, but at least the filler bolts look good (lol):

Picture

My Ikari Warriors and SFII machines are pretty rough (but fully functional). I may restore those at some point. I'm not concerned about using a non-original finish on those cabinets, such as paint or laminate, because those are just dime-a-dozen Dynamo cabinets anyway; not classic cabinets.

Paint also doesn't stand up, esp on a control panel.  

Plus I like the way the bluing looks more.

I agree completely. Paint by its very nature can chip, while bluing can not. Bluing, when it wears, wears gracefully.

And as far as appearance goes, bluing is the next best thing to having steel that is black in the first place (though unfortunately such a thing doesn't exist).

[Wade]

Both of those extremely nice for mostly original games.  Very hard to find them in that condition!  Nice job.

And I agree, what can you really do about lockdown holes?  You'll never get the wood back, you have to fill them with a bolt or filler, or live with the holes.

Did you change the Missile Command button cones to black plastic, or the T-molding on your Punch Out?  Is any of the art on that PO repro?  I'm sure you're aware how unlike the original the metal cones and replacement t-molding is.  It seems to me that either of those things are much more significant/noticeable than the finish on the bolt heads.  But obviously, you have a thing for bluing, I think that's the bottom line here.

MaximRecoil as your username, does that suggest you have also been into a gun hobby at some point?

Wade

[SirPeale]

I personally have a thing for rust prevention and longevity, that's why I like the bluing.

[ChadTower]

Drops in a bucket, but drops add up. 

Drops on your end.  Drops of labor.  Drops of time.  Drops of cost.  Nobody will ever pay extra money for a cab because the bolts are blued vs regular black.  Even most hardcore collectors won't ever care.

[MaximRecoil]

Both of those extremely nice for mostly original games.  Very hard to find them in that condition!  Nice job.

And I agree, what can you really do about lockdown holes?  You'll never get the wood back, you have to fill them with a bolt or filler, or live with the holes.

Did you change the Missile Command button cones to black plastic, or the T-molding on your Punch Out?  Is any of the art on that PO repro?  I'm sure you're aware how unlike the original the metal cones and replacement t-molding is.  It seems to me that either of those things are much more significant/noticeable than the finish on the bolt heads.  But obviously, you have a thing for bluing, I think that's the bottom line here.

MaximRecoil as your username, does that suggest you have also been into a gun hobby at some point?

Wade

The T-molding is original on the SPO machine. It's in decent shape (some dings, but no tears or missing sections); and yeah, I know the reproduction Nintendo T-molding that's available is "off" compared to the original stuff, in various ways; and the lack of a perfect replacement T-molding option is another reason I don't want to restore the SPO machine.

The sideart is reproduction, but silk-screened. I didn't have a choice in that matter, as it had zero sideart when I got it, and NOS PO or SPO sideart is like hen's teeth.

Most everything is original on the Missile Command, including the sideart. I haven't changed the buttons or cones from what was there when I got it, and I don't know if they are original or not. The P1 & P2 button cones are short black plastic, and the fire button cones are short silver aluminum. I've been trying to find out exactly what type of cones are supposed to be on there, but I get varying answers depending on who I ask.

I'm not dead set against reproduction stuff, as long as it is a good match to the original (which includes using the original type of process to make it, e.g., screen printing rather than inkjet for sideart); but original stuff in nice shape, and of course NOS stuff, trumps even the best reproductions IMO.

I have two problems with painted carriage bolts. One is the lack of originality; and the other is that I just don't like the way they look (or the way they handle wear and tear). I can tell they are painted, and black bolts are supposed to be blued (black oxide), or in some cases, black phosphate. No bolt manufacturer that I know of offers paint as a finish. That's what people do at home; not what bolt factories do.

"MaximRecoil" is a reference to Hiram Maxim, who invented the recoil-operated machine gun, and was from my father's hometown (about a 15 minute's drive from where I live). I've been in the gun hobby, to varying degrees, for most of my life.

[ChadTower]

Exactly how much wear and tear does a machine get in home use?  Are people wearing sandpaper gloves or something?

[MaximRecoil]

Exactly how much wear and tear does a machine get in home use?

It depends on how much and in what manner the machine is used; but you probably already knew that.

[Wade]

So now we know why you're so particular about bluing.

You're sure that's the original molding?  It looks kindof rounded in the pics.  If it is original, wow - super condition.  Don't see many like that!  The repro molding for Nintendos annoys even me due to it being so different than the original.

Bolt heads are blued at the factory (and not at home) because bluing bolts is *cheaper* than painting, not necessarily because it's better.  You're entitled to your opinions of course.  I have had more rust/wear on blued bolts in my own games than those that I've painted.  NEVER have I had paint wear or chip off of bolt heads.  Just my experiences...

I like your attitude, and for the most part I agree with the concept of going with what's closest to original.  (I am not going to order blued bolts for my games though.)   I mean, "ideally", all my games would be in mint original condition.  I simply don't have the time, patience, or money to find near mint, original examples.  Realistically, we're talking $2-3k for each game if it were in the same like-new condition as a fully restored game.  I can't justify that expense in the name of originality!  Wish I could though.

Wade

[MaximRecoil]

So now we know why you're so particular about bluing.

You're sure that's the original molding?  It looks kindof rounded in the pics.  If it is original, wow - super condition.  Don't see many like that!  The repro molding for Nintendos annoys even me due to it being so different than the original.

It is most definitely original, and it is perfectly flat. The relatively low resolution/quality of the picture (cheap camera) hides flaws of course; it doesn't look brand new in person; but like I said, it is in decent shape. It matches the moderate wear of the rest of the cabinet (brand new T-molding would look a bit out of place without restoring the whole cabinet). The reproduction stuff is not only slightly rounded, but the color is wrong as well (the white has a hint of translucency rather than being perfectly opaque like the original stuff).

This machine was last on location some time in the 90's and had been sitting in an operator's warehouse in PA, JAMMAtized and missing the gameboard, sporting "Time Killers" garb (good grief), until I bought it a few years ago for $50. I already had tracked down a used, mostly complete SPO kit elsewhere, so that gave me the boardset, marquee, and 5-way SPO joystick. Then I found an auction on eBay labeled "Nintendo parts", which was a box of stuff that included a PO PCB cage, complete PO wiring harness, and PO power supply. Eventually I found a nice PO control panel with its original CPO still in good shape, and I was able to ditch the one that got Swiss-cheesed for the "Time Killers" controls. I got both the PO and the supplementary SPO screen printed reproduction sideart for free.

Bolt heads are blued at the factory (and not at home) because bluing bolts is *cheaper* than painting, not necessarily because it's better.  You're entitled to your opinions of course.  I have had more rust/wear on blued bolts in my own games than those that I've painted.  NEVER have I had paint wear or chip off of bolt heads.  Just my experiences...

Another option is black phosphate, which is an electrochemical conversion process that some factories use on bolts and screws (it is an inherently rough finish though, not as nice looking as bluing/black oxide can be). Have you ever heard of Parkerizing? It is the same type of process, and has been used on military guns for ages. Try to find an M1911A1 (the vast majority of them were parkerized) with a significant amount of rust. Most of them are rust free to this day, and the last ones were made in 1945; and they went through hell and back until their official retirement in 1985. If they'd been painted, most of them would have been bare rusty steel by the end of WWII, to say nothing of Korea and Vietnam.