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What kind of gas mileage do you get?
patrickl:
--- Quote from: Level42 on April 15, 2008, 12:52:03 pm ---Patrick forgets to mention that a Diesel engine produces only a fraction of poisonous CO. In that way, it's a lot cleaner than a petrol engine. Also, because of the much better milage Diesel engines are oil savers.
--- End quote ---
CO is not really the same threat as particulates are.
Diesel is not really an oil saver and neither is it an answer in fighting climate change.
It actually costs more oil to make diesel and the proces of making diesel also creates 25% more CO2 than creating gasoline does. When burned diesel emits more CO2 than gasoline does. If you offset all that with the extra mileage of diesel then there really is not that much difference between the two.
So diesel does not win on CO2 emissions nor on oil consumption. At best it's a minute difference of a few procent.
--- Quote ---One way or the other, driving will pollute. Even all the "alternatives".
--- End quote ---
There is "pollute" and there is "emit a huge number of harmful of toxic particles" (as in 25 to 500 times as many). In California they found that the emissions from the 10% of cars that run on diesel cause 80% of lung cancer.
The biggest problem is that the current legislation is not able to cope with the threat that diesel poses. The legislation is set on grams of carbon per kilometer (mile). The problem with that is that the ultra-fine particulates (the ones which are actually not stopped by these modern filters) are the bulk of the number of particulates coming from a diesel engine, but since they are so small (smaller than 30nm) they weigh a lot less than the bigger particles which weigh a lot, pose much less of a threat and are indeed filtered by current filters. So what the current rules and filters are doing is taking out the soot that is less harmful to our health and in fact increasing the number of harmful particulates in the air.
paigeoliver:
Those loud ineffecient Mercedes Diesels from the 80s are also basically the best car ever built. I don't have one myself (I have a gas benz), but I'd drive one.
--- Quote from: shardian on April 15, 2008, 08:18:24 am ---
--- Quote from: danny_galaga on April 15, 2008, 07:40:58 am ---
meh. diesels are smelly...
--- End quote ---
and that right there is why diesels are not popular here. Oh I'm not agreeing with you Danny, I'm just saying your thought process is antiquated. When Americans think of diesel, we see dirty nasty coal trucks, tankers, and bulldozers - all of which belch big clouds of smoke from their stacks.
When they think of diesel cars, they think of the loud innefficient Mercede's models from the early 80's.
New diesel cars are badass, as level42 will reiterate.
As to price, diesel USED to be cheaper than gasoline. After Hurricane Katrina, diesel has just been creeping up and up.
The way I see it, screw the rest of us and our gas - that is secondary. The government needs to get off their ass and do something about diesel prices. gas tax breaks, increased domestic supply for diesel only, etc. The diesel is what drives this country, and effects the prices of everything we buy. I would be fine paying $3 for gas, as long as I didn't have to also pay for the $4 diesel via surcharges, inflation, etc.
Rant off. :soapbox:
--- End quote ---
shmokes:
--- Quote from: patrickl on April 15, 2008, 01:36:15 pm ---
In California they found that the emissions from the 10% of cars that run on diesel cause 80% of lung cancer.
--- End quote ---
What??? That's ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---. You can't measure that.
danny_galaga:
--- Quote from: paigeoliver on April 15, 2008, 11:38:44 pm ---Those loud ineffecient Mercedes Diesels from the 80s are also basically the best car ever built. I don't have one myself (I have a gas benz), but I'd drive one.
--- End quote ---
dont paige, dont! they are aweful! slow, smokey, noisy. you would spend thousands just to overhaul the fuel pump. and many more to rebuild the engine- which you would have to if you didnt want it to belch smoke.
about modern diesels being different. yes they are different. the injection system is way higher pressure than previous systems, thus ensuring cleaner more effecient burning. but ive been behind enough 5 year old (shiny, not bush-bashed) landcruisers and the like to know that once the engines wear out even a little bit (which happens rather quickly it seems with cars and 4wds) they are no better than the older style engines. just as smoky as any ol' truck...
patrickl:
--- Quote from: shmokes on April 16, 2008, 12:04:37 am ---
--- Quote from: patrickl on April 15, 2008, 01:36:15 pm ---
In California they found that the emissions from the 10% of cars that run on diesel cause 80% of lung cancer.
--- End quote ---
What??? That's ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---. You can't measure that.
--- End quote ---
Why not?
- They can show a relationship between lung cancer and number of particulates in the air
- They can estimate the number of particulates emitted by diesel cars and petrol cars
Looked up some California research on the matter. Not sure if it's the one I was referring to earlier, but it shows how it works:
Health Effects of Diesel Exhaust Particulate Matter
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