40mpg in my 1.6L Suzuki Vitara
Anyone driving a V8 as their regular drive who does not have to tow anything should burn in hell.
How nice and ignorant of you.
BTW, my V8 gets better mileage than my wife's V6. I'm estimating HIGH for her mileage, since I know on the low end, she averages 18 mpg.
Or....should I just assume you're going to now readjust your tool-worthy statement to include V6's too? Mebbe not, since your precious vehicle was made at one point with a 6, and you might have to choke on your ignorant statement.
Nice, isn't it, that enviropriests never really introduce themselves, they just let themselves be known....or are you ACTUALLY "religious" too? Prolly just one of those rare people who AREN'T religious but just so happen to be as judgmental as those evil "believers"
Didn't someone around here have a hard time grasping the concept of environmentalism being the new "religion" of our times? Yeah, crazy theory, I know!
My commute is 5 minutes. I should really cycle to work but the whole arriving at work in sweaty clothes doesn't really do much for me.
Oh, a hypocrite too?!?! So by your standard, NOT cycling to work means you....how'd you put it? "burn in hell"?
Which sounds better, "envirotholic", "envirotestant"?
Stop molesting the gas pumps for your freak-fix, faux granola boy.
06 Scion xA 35 mph
wow, even my VW is fater than that!
No, your VW is PHat. It's still fatter than his Scion. Longerer too, I bet.
But I am finished trying to educate here, everyone please continue telling yourselves that you NEED those new cars because the old ones break down all the time, and not because you just WANT a new car.
You really should look better into where your costs are. If you add it all up you will see there really is not that big a cost difference between buying a new car every 4 years and driving an old car. The drop in depreciation is compensated largely by the increase in maintenance costs and the lower fuel bill for a newer car.
If you insist on having "new" cars, the BEST value for a "new" car is a 1-to-2-year old car. The largest chunk of depreciation is gone, a service record most likely has been established (possible lemon's can be "outed"), and it's still under warranty.
I don't have a $22k hybrid, I bought a 2008 4-door Yaris with a sticker of $14.5k. Happily gave them my 98 Camry beater in trade and took a loan for the $10k. I would say that just about anyone with some motivation or a trade could get the same price, or near it.
10,000 miles per year on a V8 getting 18 MPG at $3.50 a gallon costs a person $1944 a year.
10,000 miles a year on a standard 2008 Honda civic (29 mpg, which is really pitiful if you ask me) at $3.50 a gallon costs $1206 a year.
So in theory you save yourself $744 a year here, oh wait, how much extra is that full coverage insurance on that car you are financing? Better add in $500 extra a year for that.
1) Most V8's are getting far worse than 18 MPG in mixed/city. Especially older cars.
First, I dunno how many miles were on your Camry, but simple maths tells us you "sold" your Camry to the dealership for $4500. It was a '98. Toyota and Honda hold their resale value VERY well. In case I'm not making myself clear, unless you had eleventy brazillion miles on your '98 Camry, the dealership robbed you when they gave you $4500 for it. Even WITH eleventy brazillion miles, you could have gotten more than that selling it to someone else. Accident damage changes my opinion, but you didn't mention it, which one might think you'd have done.
Second, my V8 mileage is listed above. I haven't given my car a tune-up since I purchased it a few months ago, which I have full confidence will boost my mileage 2-10 mpg based on similar reports from other owners of the same type of car (numerous reports I've come across, including some who state that my car is capable of 30+ mpg with some mods). This car is a '96. Someone will have to define "old", or refine/DEfine the terms we're speaking about, because a 12 year old car seems like it'd fit the definition of "old", unless everyone is applying "old" to something like my mom's '70 Firebird, and making an obscenely unfair comparison simply to make themselves feel better about being "right".
The lower end of my mileage is in mixed/city driving. I've hit 28 with solid freeway driving, but didn't feel it fair to claim it. It'd be like comparing a 2008 Yaris to a 1970 Firebird
If you figure that car will likely need virtually no work or maintenance for the first 8-10 years, it's even cheaper to own.
Paige is absolutely right on this one. The total cost of ownership will be lowest for a junker, even a gas-guzzling junker.
That's not saying that buying the Civic, Prius or any other new car is bad or wrong. You just have to realize that you're trading off a higher total cost of ownership against the greater reliability, features, comfort, "smug", and chick-attractiveness factor of the new car.
Practically everyone I know drives new cars for 5-7 years, and in that period, it's rare that any work needs to be done aside from oil changes and a set of tires. If you think an 8 year old car will require less work over the same 5-10 year period versus the new car, you're fooling yourself (and only yourself).
Wade
NOT DOING work is different from "needs work". See, the maintenance SHOULD be done, but as you pointed out, ISN'T. This may explain your statement of your experience that an 8 year old car will need more work. All the folks with 8 year old cars in your area are simply buying the cars from the folks you know who've driven them for 5-7 years and haven't done any work on them other than to change the oil and maybe the tires.
My car has a valve-interference design. For me to drive it (let's use 5 years for argument's sake, mmkay?) and average 15k miles/year (reasonable, no?), I'd be selling it RIGHT AT the mileage at which a timing belt change is recommended. So passing along the cost to someone else isn't
quuuuiiiiiiittttteee the same thing as "rare that work needs to be done", now isn't it? Surely you see the problem with just this one part of the car, no? And can therefore apply it to the rest of the parts that make up a car, yes? And can therefore perhaps temper your assessment just a
wee bit? Mebbe even take a closer look at it and see Danny's "I'll buy a $10k car once a year and ditch the old one and come out even, if not ahead in the long run" theory vs. pat's might be a bit closer to reality?
My brother bought a $2000 junker and after a year the engine died. That's a higher depreciation than on a new car.
Why, when giving this example, only consider the depreciation on the new car? He paid $2000 for the car, and got a total of one year's use, according to you.
If you were being honest and comparing costs, which you clearly didn't in this example, you would START with how much the new car cost for that year. If you find something that is $100/month, that's $1200/year. NOW add in depreciation. My guess is that a new car depreciates more than $800/year. I'd also guess the $2000 car had reached its cycle of depreciation and might have, if anything,
APpreciated!
Cost of total ownership would be a wash
at best, with the new car more likely being higher (and moreso than $100/month). This is ALSO comparing a new car to a car that was probably junked after a year's use. Had he put the money into a new engine, which even you should be able to agree would have given him AT LEAST 2 years of trouble-free operation (remember, it's a NEW engine, which also happen to come in NEW cars, which you're arguing is a better option because of LESS repairs, mmkay?), after that first year with the new engine, he'd have been making money hand over fist because the cost of total ownership swung wildly in his favor after that year.
It's as if the extreme ridiculousness of danny's example of having to replace the
ENGINE every year finally leveling the playing field wasn't ridiculous
ENOUGH! 
Well my income is paid per month so that's usually what I relate my expenses too. But sure you could do it over the whole run too.
the toyota yaris would have used roughly $20 per week fuel if i were driving it. so lets say $80/month. you should have full insurance for a new car. using the same company i used (AAMI) it is 43.75/month (cheaper per year, but you like these monthly figures ) the car itself $312.50/month (and as you say, no extra costs in four years if still in warranty), registration $43/month so total is $419.50/month.
How do you get that a Yaris "itself" costs $312 a month? Is that depreciation? Depreciation on a 15,000 yaris would be roughly $150 a month. If you correct for that in your calculation then the new Yaris would cost roughly $250 a month.
Your monthly car costs are:
- $120 for fuel,
- $12.50 for insurance
- $40 on repairs
- $26 in depreciation ($2500 car worth half after 4 years = $1250/48)
=$198.50
With the Yaris coming out at $250 a month, the difference in cost is just over $50 a month (a 20% saving on the cost of driving a new Yaris).
I must have missed it yet again. Where's the cost for the vehicle itself? Danny, did you factor out the cost for the vehicle itself as well? Where are the dealerships you guys are going to that allow you to take their cars off their lots without paying for them? Who are these private sellers you guys lucked into that just GIVE you their cars to drive and "I'll pay you back when I sell it m'self!"
Given that what's being compared is a vehicle that depreciates to nothing, at which point it would have long been sold by pat, and a car that doesn't depreciate at all, you're essentially comparing a figure that doesn't even apply to one car.....nevermind.
Oh, and I haven't added to the fact that even though it's a Toyota, given Wade's example, your handle on depreciation is a bit....um....off, lets say. I'd also add to this that your idea of depreciation rates doesn't jive with smaller cars in the U.S. Even given gas prices, they simply depreciate at the rate an empty tuna can should - quickly. Given your example of 50% over 5 years (I can't be stuffed to go back and check, besides, I got the 50% right, so you fill in the other number), that'd be 10%/year.
Take Wade's $14k car. D'ya think you'll be able to find one for $12,600 a year later? Sure, at that same dealership, with ZERO miles on it. In "the wild"?
Ziaoucheleventy might believe that, but only if they start using them for "death trains"!
you missed the bit where i said 'i can sell it for the same price or even more'...
an hour of your time does tie into that relative term of 'considerable expense' since maybe you could earn $200/hour while i earn about $17.50/hour. but money is money. if i earnt $200+/hour i would still be inclined to drive a junker (thats probably the dutch in me )
It only ties in for his example if he can absolutely honestly pick up work for the time he would be working on his car. That's as absurd to claim as it is to point out that all the time spent posting on here would be better spent on his clients, since that is quite obviously the claim being made.
It only ties in, and as you point out, is EXTREMELY relative, based on what you like to do. I don't mind working on my car, but oftentimes wish I didn't have to do certain things (like oil changes). For such things, I DO pay someone else if the cost is reasonable to me. For you, danny, pulling the engine might be considered "reasonable". In both our cases, getting our hands dirty isn't considered "UNreasonable", and in fact, might be considered "fun" or a "hobby". For pat, quite apparently, putting gas in the tank seems to tax the limits of what tasks he wishes to perform on his cars. It's not that way for everyone, nor is it even dependent on income level (see Jay Leno, for example). I've got a BIL whose idea of fun car ownership was to buy a GTO fully restored, and beat the piss out of it, then pay someone to fix it back up to reasonable condition, and sell it.
BTW pat, my BIL's car....he sold it in beat-up condition for EXACTLY what he bought it for, only with 4 years of abuse added to the odometer. It's amazing that you think "old" cars often can't sell for what you've bought them for. Methinks it's because it's not the norm for your country, and thus can't comprehend the apparent illogic in the situation, but I'm betting if Paige painted my Suburban that he now owns, he could sell it for several hundred more than I paid for it, even adding on the years and mileage he might have put on it, and subtracting the parts he put into it.
I love coming in on these threads late! This was a great way to spend a dreary rainy day! Seems like another tornado is gonna touch down in a bit, so I wanna end this before my electric gets cut off. Sorry to dredge up this old thread, bu....ah, screw youse guys, I LOVED dredging this old thread up!
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Topic: What kind of gas mileage do you get? (Read 30018 times)
