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What kind of gas mileage do you get?

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patrickl:
Good posts Wade 8)

paigeoliver:
Wade, my calculations at no point includes the substantial purchase price of the vehicle, therefor the interest and sales tax do indeed count. I was ONLY keeping track of the additional premium it costs a person to drive a new car. Toss that purchase price into the mix and it gets far worse.


Also, here are some solutions.

1) Broken down in the rain or snow

Call a taxi.

2) Broken down with children/infants in the car

Call a taxi, you are going to be far more stressed about this than the kids will be. They will probably be excited to ride the taxi. Contrary to popular wisdom children do not die or explode when cars break down and they can get wet without melting. You could send those kids to college with the money you save trying to insure they don't spend 20 minutes delayed in a breakdown.


3) Broken down with an important work meeting being missed/delayed.

Call a taxi. I know from experience people delay "important" work and business meetings all the time for things far more mundane than an auto breakdown.


4) Broken down in bad part of town

Call a taxi, and consider avoiding the bad part of town. Also, I'd rather be in a hoopty in the bad part of town than something nice that will get stolen.

5) Broken down and missing/being late for a job interview

Call a taxi.

6) Broken down and missing a class test

Call a taxi.

7) Broken down, and spending a whole weekend (+$$$ parts cost) working on the car.

How you do repairs is up to you, you can have the shop do everything or do it yourself and save more money, it is up to you.


8 ) Broken down, missing a full day of work to deal with getting the car towed, getting to the shop, etc.

Call a taxi, arrange everything else later. I don't know about you, but I still go to work when I have an automotive problem.


The vast majority of the above 8 mentioned are based on delays, which are far more likely from traffic jams and general lateness than they are from auto breakdowns. And the vast majority of auto breakdowns go a whole lot smoother if you just CALL a TAXI to get yourself to your destination right away and then come back and deal with the problem later. Waiting for your uncle Denny to crawl out of bed, get dressed and drive over from Ballwin to come pick you up isn't the way to deal with it, even though it feels cheaper and that is what most people seem to do.

When it all comes down to it a whole lot of people can't even handle their finances well enough to have enough money on hand to pay for a taxi, tow, and repair. They just live paycheck to paycheck regardless of income or expense and have an emergency every single time they have an extra expense. Thus they will spend $6000 extra a year to drive new, ignoring the fact that it is almost impossible to rack up $6000 a year in repairs year after year.

patrickl:

--- Quote from: paigeoliver on April 28, 2008, 06:27:42 pm ---Thus they will spend $6000 extra a year to drive new, ignoring the fact that it is almost impossible to rack up $6000 a year in repairs year after year.
--- End quote ---
$6000 a year extra? Either they need to be buying a new car every year or they are driving something seriously expensive. Either way it's not an applicable example.

If someone drives a $12,000 car the depreciation would be about half of the original price over 4 or 5 years. So the cost would be $6,000 over the full period. It's pretty easy to rack up a $1,500 repair bill on an old junker every year. Or even worse, end up with a lemon that breaks down completely (or has a higher repair bill than it's value) in a year or two.

Again, the only way this comes out even reasonably favorably is if you get your repairs practically for free and if you don't account for your own time that you need to put in to keep the junker driving.

Even then, the difference will be at best $50 to $100 a month. Are you seriously claiming that an extra payment of $50 to $100 a month isn't worth much better reliability, hugely improved safety, a much better driving experience and several days a year that you are free (because you don't have to work on a broken down car or that you need to take days of off work because your car died)?

Wade:

--- Quote from: paigeoliver on April 28, 2008, 06:27:42 pm ---Wade, my calculations at no point includes the substantial purchase price of the vehicle, therefor the interest and sales tax do indeed count. I was ONLY keeping track of the additional premium it costs a person to drive a new car. Toss that purchase price into the mix and it gets far worse.

--- End quote ---

There is no interest or sales tax without the purchase price, so you are including the purchase price into the calcs whether you think so or not.


--- Quote ---Also, here are some solutions.
...
Call a taxi for every situation...

--- End quote ---

1) I don't have a cell phone, they don't work in a lot of areas around here anyway, and a pay phone might not be nearby (especially so, these days).  How do you propose calling that taxi?  Yelling loudly?  So figure an extra $50/month for the cell phone used to bail out the person who drives the old car.

2) Taxis can take far too long to show up

3) Taxis are quite expensive around here.  If I'm not right in town or nearby home when the breakdown happens (which was the case for all 3 of my recent breakdowns), the taxi alone would be $50-150.  Towing/trailering the dead car would have been several hundred.


--- Quote ---...
Call a taxi, you are going to be far more stressed about this than the kids will be. They will probably be excited to ride the taxi. Contrary to popular wisdom children do not die or explode when cars break down and they can get wet without melting. You could send those kids to college with the money you save trying to insure they don't spend 20 minutes delayed in a breakdown.

--- End quote ---

Until you have children and other responsibilities, I can rightfully dismiss any of your opinions about how to treat them.

Not only is it unsafe, it is illegal to take children in a car without a proper car seat.  While most car seats can be moved pretty easily, the Taxi might not have the needed belts or tie hooks.  If the weather is bad, I sure as hell don't want to risk getting a child sick, just to save $50-100/month driving the used car.


--- Quote ---3) Broken down with an important work meeting being missed/delayed.

Call a taxi. I know from experience people delay "important" work and business meetings all the time for things far more mundane than an auto breakdown.

--- End quote ---

Just because there are people with "important" work they blow off, (like driving an old car) it doesn't mean it's a good idea and won't hurt their career.  Again, what about the job interview that would result in $25k/year more?  I work at a hospital, which is loaded with people who have jobs where people's lives rest in their hands.  Many of these people need to be available reliably.


--- Quote ---4) Broken down in bad part of town

Call a taxi, and consider avoiding the bad part of town. Also, I'd rather be in a hoopty in the bad part of town than something nice that will get stolen.

--- End quote ---

You'd rather drive through a bad part of town in a less reliable vehicle?  Makes no sense.


--- Quote ---7) Broken down, and spending a whole weekend (+$$$ parts cost) working on the car.

How you do repairs is up to you, you can have the shop do everything or do it yourself and save more money, it is up to you.

--- End quote ---

If a person is going to stand a chance at making an old car more cost effective than a new car, he's going to have to work on it himself or have someone else work on it very cheaply.


--- Quote ---8 ) Broken down, missing a full day of work to deal with getting the car towed, getting to the shop, etc.
Call a taxi, arrange everything else later. I don't know about you, but I still go to work when I have an automotive problem.

--- End quote ---

That depends on where and how the car broke down.  Leaving a broken down car overnight will result it it being towed to a yard many miles away, where they have the right to keep the vehicle unless you pay their ridiculous tow bill.  (My brother was taken on this ride once when his car broke down).  It could be unsafe to leave a car in a certain spot, not only for other drivers but to avoid damage to your own car.


--- Quote ---The vast majority of the above 8 mentioned are based on delays, which are far more likely from traffic jams and

--- End quote ---

Goes back to whether your time is worth anything or not.  A delay or missed day of work is worth $300-500 to a lot of people.


--- Quote ---general lateness than they are from auto breakdowns. And the vast majority of auto breakdowns go a whole lot smoother if you just CALL a TAXI to get yourself to your destination right away and then come back and deal with the problem later. Waiting for your uncle Denny to crawl out of bed, get dressed and drive over from Ballwin to come pick you up isn't the way to deal with it, even though it feels cheaper and that is what most people seem to do.

--- End quote ---

You seem to have "handling a breakdown" down to a science.  How did you get so good at that? :)



--- Quote ---When it all comes down to it a whole lot of people can't even handle their finances well enough to have enough money on hand to pay for a taxi, tow, and repair. They just live paycheck to paycheck regardless of income or expense and have an emergency every single time they have an extra expense. Thus they will spend $6000 extra a year to drive new, ignoring the fact that it is almost impossible to rack up $6000 a year in repairs year after year.

--- End quote ---

You're right, a lot of people can't handle their finances, and driving a beater is IMO one of the sure ways to become one of those people.

Your $6000/yr figure is WAY off.

Wade

paigeoliver:
I must wonder what sort of new car you are buying for $12000? A low end Hyundai? If that is the case a new one is $12000 and the dealer will give you $2500 for your 5 year old one.

Just about every financial pundit out there recommends buying new cars, and plenty of them suggest buying them at an age of 8 years old or more.

Also, when you buy very used you aren't stuck with the base model. If I need a car and have $3000 I COULD put it towards the cheapest flimsobox compact out there and be paying for it for the next 5 years. I could buy a 5 year old example of that same flimsobox and own it outright. I could take advantage of the fact that american cars are the biggest bargains on the used market and buy a very nice 5 year old Taurus. Or I could go a bit extreme and spend $1000 (done it multiple times) and put the other $2000 in the bank.

I am a very big fan of cars in the 15-20 age range because they have depreciated to being nearly worthless, yet you can find some in really fantastic condition with low mileage for almost no money. And the repair costs for those models is usually quite low (lots of parts suppliers competing drives the prices down).

And cars in that age range no longer depreciate due to age, in fact you can often drive them for years and put a bunch of miles on them and then sell them for the same thing you paid for them, sometimes more (if the model has a following a well kept example will appreciate slightly over time, not investment grade money, but it is money).




--- Quote from: patrickl on April 28, 2008, 08:17:00 pm ---
--- Quote from: paigeoliver on April 28, 2008, 06:27:42 pm ---Thus they will spend $6000 extra a year to drive new, ignoring the fact that it is almost impossible to rack up $6000 a year in repairs year after year.
--- End quote ---
$6000 a year extra? Either they need to be buying a new car every year or they are driving something seriously expensive. Either way it's not an applicable example.

If someone drives a $12,000 car the depreciation would be about half of the original price over 4 or 5 years. So the cost would be $6,000 over the full period. It's pretty easy to rack up a $1,500 repair bill on an old junker every year. Or even worse, end up with a lemon that breaks down completely (or has a higher repair bill than it's value) in a year or two.

Again, the only way this comes out even reasonably favorably is if you get your repairs practically for free and if you don't account for your own time that you need to put in to keep the junker driving.

Even then, the difference will be at best $50 to $100 a month. Are you seriously claiming that an extra payment of $50 to $100 a month isn't worth much better reliability, hugely improved safety, a much better driving experience and several days a year that you are free (because you don't have to work on a broken down car or that you need to take days of off work because your car died)?

--- End quote ---

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